Originally posted by Jenyar
Maybe this diagram will help in your discussion:
(From the Genealogies of Christ - J. Atkin
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M*W: Interesting diagram! It resembles the qabala.
Is Jesus the Antichrist?
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
- Start date
Originally posted by Jenyar
Maybe this diagram will help in your discussion:
(From the Genealogies of Christ - J. Atkin)
It would, if it were honest about biological versus legal descent. If Jechonias begat Salathiel, then how does Neri become the biological father of Salathiel in this Tree of Life chart? Please show support for this idea in the OT.
<i><b>And just where was your God in the Peterson case, the 9/11 attack, the sniper episode?</b></i>
God allows evil to happen. This is clear in the bible and in life. So either there is no God or there is a God who allows evil to happen. I can speculate on the reasons though. If someone is hungry that gives us a chance to do greater in order to feed them.
<i><b>Must be nice to arbitraily take credit for everything good and deny any responsibility for natural disasters, human cruelity, etc.</b></i>
It's unclear how much responsibility Satan has in this. Jesus called Satan ruler of the world but we do know that nothing happens without God.
I'm not going to argue about old genelogies. It suffices to say that often times the writers of them would only name the important persons and there could several gaps within them. Even error on the part of Luke or on the scribes copying from Luke are possibilities.
God allows evil to happen. This is clear in the bible and in life. So either there is no God or there is a God who allows evil to happen. I can speculate on the reasons though. If someone is hungry that gives us a chance to do greater in order to feed them.
<i><b>Must be nice to arbitraily take credit for everything good and deny any responsibility for natural disasters, human cruelity, etc.</b></i>
It's unclear how much responsibility Satan has in this. Jesus called Satan ruler of the world but we do know that nothing happens without God.
I'm not going to argue about old genelogies. It suffices to say that often times the writers of them would only name the important persons and there could several gaps within them. Even error on the part of Luke or on the scribes copying from Luke are possibilities.
Are you sure you want to start down that slippery slope, okinrus? I'm game if you are!
You heard it here, folks! The bible is not infallible!
Seriously, if you start claiming biblical error whenever the recorded "facts" don't fit in quite so nicely with your Christian preconceptions, where do you stop?
As I've already explained before. Infalliable is used by the Church in a theological sense. We accept that what is taught in the bible under the proper guidance of the Church is infalliable. (See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm) We believe that the faith and doctrin contained in our faith are infalliable with respect to faith and morals. If Luke copied a record of Mary that was partially wrong then it's no concern to us. Similarly, when Peter first heard the news of Judah's death, it was different than the one taken down by Mathew. The key thing here is that how Judah's died has no bearing on the teachings of faith and morals.
"Satan"? Oh yes the bad guy. Th one responsible for evertything that we don't want to credit God (the good guy) with doing.
Nice but if your God were omnipotent and all powerful, all knowing and the creter of weverthing, he knowingly created Satan and allowed if not created by proxy (knowingly) all evil.
Your God is either a falacy, a wimp or evil. take your choice. You can't seperate him from reailty and give him the credits you do.
/God allows evil to happen.
What drives me completely fucking insane is that people have the freaking GAUL to think that they could remotely fucking predict what god would or would not fucking DO. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE???????????
Dipshits.
Even by your own goddamn stupid system wouldn't this be a horrific fucking sin????? PRIDE? ARROGANCE?
In my book it's just plain stupidity.
My apologies for my emotional reaction, but man this kind of thing makes my head explode.
What drives me completely fucking insane is that people have the freaking GAUL to think that they could remotely fucking predict what god would or would not fucking DO. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE???????????
Dipshits.
Even by your own goddamn stupid system wouldn't this be a horrific fucking sin????? PRIDE? ARROGANCE?
In my book it's just plain stupidity.
My apologies for my emotional reaction, but man this kind of thing makes my head explode.
Wesmorris,
A bit short sighted I think. Nobody predicted what God would or would not do, nor what he should or should not do.
I merely hold their all knowing, omnipotent, creator of everything responsible for what he created while knowing what he was creating would be like.
You cannot claim he has those values and conclude anythingelse. The only alternative to God creating Satan and all evil is to deny he is all knowing, omnipotent and the creator of everything.
A bit short sighted I think. Nobody predicted what God would or would not do, nor what he should or should not do.
I merely hold their all knowing, omnipotent, creator of everything responsible for what he created while knowing what he was creating would be like.
You cannot claim he has those values and conclude anythingelse. The only alternative to God creating Satan and all evil is to deny he is all knowing, omnipotent and the creator of everything.
/A bit short sighted I think. Nobody predicted what God would or would not do, nor what he should or should not do.
Please explain then how the sentence "god allows evil to happen" is not saying exactly what god does or doesn't do? Note that it wasn't YOUR post that was quoted.
/I merely hold their all knowing, omnipotent, creator of everything responsible for what he created while knowing what he was creating would be like.
Honestly I havn't read your posts. I was skimming and saw that line and it made me twitch. I don't hold their fanatasies to anything but the poor mental health it creates in the hosts of this meme.
/You cannot claim he has those values and conclude anythingelse. The only alternative to God creating Satan and all evil is to deny he is all knowing, omnipotent and the creator of everything.
Logically, omnipotence is simply nonsense.
Please explain then how the sentence "god allows evil to happen" is not saying exactly what god does or doesn't do? Note that it wasn't YOUR post that was quoted.
/I merely hold their all knowing, omnipotent, creator of everything responsible for what he created while knowing what he was creating would be like.
Honestly I havn't read your posts. I was skimming and saw that line and it made me twitch. I don't hold their fanatasies to anything but the poor mental health it creates in the hosts of this meme.
/You cannot claim he has those values and conclude anythingelse. The only alternative to God creating Satan and all evil is to deny he is all knowing, omnipotent and the creator of everything.
Logically, omnipotence is simply nonsense.
I don't believe that God knows the complete future because that would determine our future. I do, however, believe that God could know the future because he is outside of time. But our free will is determined by His lack of knowledge of what we will do and our concept of time is completely based upon our free will. To some extant he has decreased our free will but some decisions we make on our own. In any case, your narrowing your definition of God and wining about how the God of the bible appears cynical. If you were just reading the bible you probably would not come to the conclusion that God is fully omnipresent because there would then be no reason to test the Isrealites(Deuteronomy) and certaintly no reason for Jesus to grow in wisdom and truth.
W
WildBlueYonder
Guest
the real question should be, 'is mohammad the anti-christ?" he fits most of the profile, as in Revelations mentioning the ‘Beast’, the ‘Dragon’ & the ‘Abomination that causes desolation’.
Look at the timeline: Mohammad dead in 632, islam conquers their world (not with love), but by the sword, they turn the Gospel upside down, say that Jesus never died on the cross for salvation, that Jesus was a muslim, that Mohammad was a prophet, that the quran was the complete & perfect word of god, that a mosque should be built over the Temple mount, defiling it, you be the judge, ‘was mohammad the anti-christ?”
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Books/Muir/Caliphate/chap1.htm
http://www.worldmag.com/world/issue/10-27-01/cover_8.asp
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/997560/posts
Mohammad could be the world-conquering Jewish messiah, if he were Jewish! That’s what they’re waiting for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah
http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/4q521.html
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/ashes.html
So, is it apocalypse now, what are the chances this is a prelude to our ‘Dark Angel’ future, the perfect religion that must conquer the world at any cost, what is it about muslims that in our short wars against al-Queda & Iraq, has produced 6 traitors: the Dirty Bomber, the American Taliban, Civilian translator, USAF translator, the grenade thrower, the Chaplain? How many traitors were Japanese, Italian or Germans during WWII? Zero, zilch, nada; so, what’s up with muslims, hmmm?
/Evil is self-evident.
That is not a sufficient proof. Neither is it evident of anything but an empty pointless claim.
/Furthermore, "pride" is admiting to the existance of evil unless if pride isn't evil.
Please refrain from gibberish. I suspect your postition is blindly founded in scripture and is as such, simply irrelevent to anyone who hasn't succumbed to the psychological operations implemented by your sunday school.
/Assuming God exists then God would have to had to allow pride to exists unless if God is not omnipotent.
Do you hold this statement to be logically valid? This can only be justified by an illogical and IMO almost sure irrelevant argument.
Have you considered the contradiction of omnipotence?
That is not a sufficient proof. Neither is it evident of anything but an empty pointless claim.
/Furthermore, "pride" is admiting to the existance of evil unless if pride isn't evil.
Please refrain from gibberish. I suspect your postition is blindly founded in scripture and is as such, simply irrelevent to anyone who hasn't succumbed to the psychological operations implemented by your sunday school.
/Assuming God exists then God would have to had to allow pride to exists unless if God is not omnipotent.
Do you hold this statement to be logically valid? This can only be justified by an illogical and IMO almost sure irrelevant argument.
Have you considered the contradiction of omnipotence?
Yes, it's a logically valid statement. For instance, if I <i>could</i> stop a moving bus from hitting someone but I don't, then I have <i>allowed</i> the bus to hit that person. Now a omnipotent God is capable of doing every possible logical action. So any event that occurs must have been allowed by God because an omnipotent God could have stopped this event.
Yes, but the sole creator of the universe would have to be omnipotent before creating anything. Also, there's different definitions of omnipotence used. Omnipotence is usually defined to be the capability of doing everything that does not have a contradiction; hence, omnipotence by definition cannot have contradictions.
LostInThought7
Registered Senior Member
Hmmm, this reminds me of a poem that my good friend George wrote:
To those I drove away - by George
Again I drive the moneychangers out!
My tongue of Christ uncoils to liberate
My temple-mind once more, that I might shout
Of holy things, of simple things made great
By unobstructed view. The fleeing mob
Has stirred the dust, each mote a a history
Of crime -- of murder, theft, hatchet job,
Whole beds of lust -- there is no mystery.
The empty temple echoes with my feet
As I, alone, but no less guilty, search
The holy words, the prayers, for how to live.
My tongue of Christ confesses defeat;
These pigeons josling for a better perch,
Like those I drove away, I must forgive.