Is it wrong to have sex for fun, knowing it might possibly lead to an abortion?

[Musika]

Has anybody ever contemplated that the earth "experiences" humans as an invasive species. A modern and highly specialized warlike ant colony. Objectively a case can be made that humans are parasitic organisms as far as earth is concerned. We use natural resources and return a chemical mess that infiltrates every corner of our ecosphere, leaving a trail of death, destruction, and extinction of many important species such as honeybees.
We completely lack a respect for our host organism, at our peril.
This is a morally important question, IMO.

This is a recent trend in human society, starting about 500 years ago, and moving into higher gears for the past 100 or so years. If you want to examine how human culture has progressed to such a dissonant low point, you have to look at history.

 

[Musika]

Right, mathematics don't work in your world........

Right.
Because before industrial society came to the fore in this world, mathematics didn't work anywhere.

 

[Write4U]

Right.
Because before industrial society came to the fore in this world, mathematics didn't work anywhere.

OK.... shall I pat you on the helmet now.....or turn that alarm light on......?

 

[Write4U]

This is a recent trend in human society, starting about 500 years ago, and moving into higher gears for the past 100 or so years. If you want to examine how human culture has progressed to such a dissonant low point, you have to look at history.

At least we don't engage in physical cannibalism anymore....

p.s. of course, we do eat just about everything else, dead or alive.

 

[pjdude1219]

Ok. So you have abandoned your "historical antiquity" argument and are trying an ad hom different argument.
Hmmm. Let's see.

So parenthood isn't, IYHO, a personal idea? (... and furthermore, your opinion isn't offensive, self-righteous and arrogant?)

My opinion is based on facts your is based on theology. and no it wasn't an ad hom argument. insulting you doesn't make something an ad hom argument. insulting and using that as the reason does. and i stand by my argument as opposed to your desire to force people to adhear to your religious beliefs. i was commenting on your how you clearly view your beliefs as supieror based on obvious religiously motivated wants

 

[Musika]

At least we don't engage in physical cannibalism anymore....

It seems people didn't require factories to refrain from eating each other .... although, since you mention it, when the the fist fight over the last cockroach in an abandoned factory is over, what do you suppose people will turn to in order to fill their stomachs?

 

[Musika]

My opinion is based on facts your is based on theology. and no it wasn't an ad hom argument. insulting you doesn't make something an ad hom argument. insulting and using that as the reason does. and i stand by my argument as opposed to your desire to force people to adhear to your religious beliefs. i was commenting on your how you clearly view your beliefs as supieror based on obvious religiously motivated wants

Your opinion is based on that massive chip you have on your shoulder.
Outside of your political agenda, you have nothing to offer.

 

[Write4U]

It seems people didn't require factories to refrain from eating each other .... although, since you mention it, when the the fist fight over the last cockroach in an abandoned factory is over, what do you suppose people will turn to in order to fill their stomachs?

And the moral message is...we can kill the doctor who performs abortions to save the life of an unborn fetus?

Seems you have made your peace with lots of death and dying. I see....Armageddon.....!!

 

[Musika]

And the moral message is...we can kill the docter who performs abortions but not unborn fetuses?

If you think this problem can be solved by either killing someone or letting them live, you aren't really in the picture.

 

[Write4U]

If you think this problem can be solved by either killing someone or letting them live, you aren't really in the picture.

Yes I am. You are just terrible at mathematics.... Watch Albert Bartlett.

 

[Musika]

Yes I am. You are just terrible at mathematics....

Unfortunately maths won't help us curb our habits.

 

[Write4U]

Unfortunately maths won't help us curb our habits.

Makes no difference. An exponential growth function in a confined space has a mathematical growth limit.

This phenomenon (natural mathematical pattern) is called the "exponential function" which simply means that anything with a steady growth of 1 % will double in size every 70 years. This is called the "doubling time" and this a deterministic universal mathematical law.

If you believe in God, then God made this law or has to follow this law. It's an inescapable universal mathematical function in the evolutionary process of the universe.

Population growth will reach a limit and trespassing that limit will result in disaster.

 

[Musika]

Makes no difference. An exponential growth function in a confined space has a mathematical growth limit.

This phenomenon (natural mathematical pattern) is called the "exponential function" which simply means that anything with a steady growth of 1 % will double in size every 70 years. This is called the "doubling time" and this a deterministic universal mathematical law.

If you believe in God, then God made this law or has to follow this law. It's an inescapable universal mathematical function in the evolutionary process of the universe.

I guess the leeway lies in whole "1%" thing. Do we really have no faculty for self control beyond that of rapidly expanding pond algae?

 

[billvon]

I'm saying that the "well, we got to keep the population down, so therefore abortion" represents a sizable notch on the moral degradation scale.

Yes, it would. Let's hope we can be smarter than that.

 

[Bells]

If you're going to level a legitimate criticism you might want to keep the facts straight. I entered the thread in response to a post made by iceaura regarding the race and parentage of Jesus. After that post, all I did was respond to the succeeding comments generated by that post.

Yep.

We are all buying that..

I was making a fallacious comment about the reasoning of a fallacious diety regarding race and mysticism.

You were trolling and flaming.

What I expected was that people who should be familiar with my thoughts on religious matters would have recognized the sarcasm. Apparently I give them too much credit for their comprehension.

Or perhaps you have played your role so well, that no one is really buying it anymore.

Cut the pretense. It is pathetic and childish. Grow up. If you keep flaming, then you will face moderation.

didn’t initiate any flaming or trolling, that all started with Tiassa when he decided to use the posts as a justification to brand me a white supremacist by dredging up past disagreements.

You admitted to flaming and admitted that was your intent. For example:

I was making a fallacious comment about the reasoning of a fallacious diety regarding race and mysticism.

I brought up the reference to the left leaning sites because I was accused by Write4U of visiting the wrong news stations.

Perhaps it is the content of your posts, delivery and style that give people that impression.

You know, your argument is too convincing, which gives the direct impression that you do frequent those sites. You parrot their rubbish.

It was Tailgunner Tiassa engaging in his anti supremacist crusade that injected the Michael Brown, the Duggers, and the Elizabeth Warren references into the discussion, I simply responded to his nonsense. How is posting the facts of the Michael Brown case mocking the murder of anyone? And I wasn’t mocking a white supremacist terrorist, although they deserve to be mocked, I was mocking Tiassa for comparing me to one.

Perhaps if you went less out of your way to sound like one, that comparison would not have been made. And if you frequented those right wing websites a bit less, you might have recognised how these people view women and our bodies.

And repeating right wing nonsense is just digging that hole a bit deeper.

A thread that was supposed to be about abortion that devolved into a discussion about the ethnicity and parentage of Jesus. Everything I posted was in response to comments brought up by other posters, and it originated as a response brought up by the OP. All the rest of the off topic subject matter was injected other posters, mainly Tiassa.

And you did so by spouting white supremacist bullshit.

Oh wait, you were playing devil's advocate until you weren't.

As usual, you’ve got this whole issue assbackwards. I never made it personal until accusations were leveled against me first. It was Tiassa who decided to reignite the beefs of the past, not me. The devils advocate stuff had nothing to do with any of the past discussions. So it’s more like you two misguided ideologs have an itch to scratch with me.

Please, no one is buying it.

Your intent was to flame. You do not get to play the victim here.

You have been asked to stop flaming so stop doing so.

I could care less whether or not I have your attention. If and when I do want it, I have no problem addressing you directly to get it. And if you want to keep a thread on topic, I suggest you don’t bring up content from unrelated past discussions to make your idiotic points.

Beg yours? My intent here is to tell you to stop. I do not particularly care about you or your history here. I do care about how and why you are making this discussion about you and your sense of victimhood.

You have beef with people? Take it up with them. Stop flaming threads.

Last warning.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Are people immoral if they have sex for fun and end up having an abortion?

the men end up having an abortion ?
so the men are immoral for having sex ?
proxy misogyny via religious dictatorship ?

 

[Write4U]

I guess the leeway lies in whole "1%" thing. Do we really have no faculty for self control beyond that of rapidly expanding pond algae?

You still don't get it. What would you suggest is an appropriate moral growth rate in the human population?
How would you enforce it?

Graph of human population from 10000 BCE to 2000 CE. It shows exponential rise in world population that has taken place since the end of the seventeenth century

In the lower graph;
Starting at a 2.1 % in 1750 going down all the way to a growth rate of 0.1 % will still result in 11.2 billion people by the year 2100.

Note ; the red line is the steady growth percentage. The blue area shows the exponential population increase to 11.2 billion, which may already be too large for our resources to sustain. Zero growth will inevitably be imposed by natural selection, within the next century.

Note: Zero % growth does not mean zero population births, it means equal or greater population deaths . More like a roller coaster ride.

 

[Musika]

You still don't get it. What would you suggest is an appropriate moral growth rate in the human population?

Once again, a strange choice of language, but if you insist, one would hope a moral growth rate would arise from morals, don't you think?

How would you enforce it?

So it is a case that humans are just like pond algae? They have no capacity for self control and respond to nothing else but external force?
As such its meaningless to discuss a "moral" growth rate, since there is only ever just a mere "growth rate" ???

 

[Write4U]

Once again, a strange choice of language, but if you insist, one would hope a moral growth rate would arise from morals, don't you think?

And what would be the determining moral?

So it is a case that humans are just like pond algae? They have no capacity for self control and respond to nothing else but external force?

Give me an example of self-control. Not having a baby? Having an abortion when you happen to get pregnant while having fun.
Outlawing sex altogether???

Mathematics apply to humans exactly the same as it does to algae or anything with a steady growth rate.
In fact Prof. Bartlett cites an example of bacterial growth in a bottle. Watch it!

Do yourself a favor and watch the lecture by Albert Bartlett. Don't be one of the ignorant people who have no clue about the power of the "exponential function".

 

[Capracus]

You were trolling and flaming.

Nope, but you and Tiassa are doing your best to.

Cut the pretense. It is pathetic and childish. Grow up. If you keep flaming, then you will face moderation.

Exactly my thought about you two, cut the self righteous indignation and grow up.

You admitted to flaming and admitted that was your intent.

I admitted to responding in kind to you two ideological zealots, the rest was responding to topical discussion.

Perhaps it is the content of your posts, delivery and style that give people that impression.

Perhaps you two idealogical snowflakes are just too easily triggered.

Your intent was to flame. You do not get to play the victim here.

You have been asked to stop flaming so stop doing so.

My intent was never to flame, that’s your characterization, but it sure seems to be yours. You come in, spew a bunch of exaggerated ideological nonsense, and when I respond to it you call it flaming. That’s nuts.

Beg yours? My intent here is to tell you to stop. I do not particularly care about you or your history here. I do care about how and why you are making this discussion about you and your sense of victimhood.

You have beef with people? Take it up with them. Stop flaming threads.

Stop what? Responding to the personal character attacks by you and Tiassa? I didn’t introduce that aspect into this thread, you guys did. You want it to stop, then stop doing it.