Is Islam actually Judaism ?

[Fraggle Rocker]

Why is that relevant? Plenty of ways to get from the Levant to Arabia other than going directly across nasty deserts.

Between 8500 and 3500BCE the Sahara Desert underwent a long period of monsoons and became a fertile region teeming with human settlements, before drying out again. Other deserts have also been altered by dramatic changes in weather patterns. In addition, some deserts such as the Sonora and the Gobi have been affected by human activity, particularly unsustainable agricultural practices.

Somewhat infuriatingly, I can't find any information about the history of the Arabian Desert specifically. But it's quite possible that it, too, has toggled back and forth between wasteland and breadbasket, so that at some time in the past perhaps it was not all that difficult to traverse.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Perhaps you want a picture of his birthday party and a birth certificate

You have that?

 

[Jan Ardena]

What more do you want ?

Birth cerificaties, current eyewitnesses, photos.....

thank you
jan.

 

[arauca]

Birth cerificaties, current eyewitnesses, photos.....

thank you
jan.

I was born over 1900 after Jesus in a eastern village , I did not have a bityh certificate , I was registered no-were . During the ww2 I did not have any identity, except what was concocted .
Now think how were the registration 1900 years back in a small village like Nazaret, Even now you go to Arab country , go among the Bedouins ask them for birth certificate .

 

[Michael]

i SUPPOSE if I mention the the Act of Apostols Ch, 4 verse,5 There it mentioned a high priest Anas , Caifas who interrogate John and Peter.
The same persons Caifas and Anas in mentioned is mentioned un St John ch.18 verse 24. Those high priest are who condemned Yhashua to death.
were definitively contemporary.
You have to go to read in the Talmud or Mishna in that period . The Talmud definitively mentions Yhashua ( Jesus )

Perhaps you are confused as to what "Contemporary" Evidence is? :shrug:

The New Testament was not a contemporary account and was written much later.

The Talmud "definitively mentions" Yhashua.
- Provide the contemporary evidence of the Talmud having been written during the lifetime of Yhashua and that it specifically mentions him.

 

[Michael]

Birth cerificaties, current eyewitnesses, photos.....

There's contemporary evidence of various Egyptian Pharaohs, Roman Emperors, Chinese Emperors, Persian Emperors, etc.... No, there are no photos, but there are statues. There are, at times, records of birth.


None of this exits for Moses, Jesus or Mohammad which strongly suggests these people did not actually exist. More likely, like Hercules or Zeus, they're just myths.

 

[arauca]

Perhaps you are confused as to what "Contemporary" Evidence is? :shrug:

The New Testament was not a contemporary account and was written much later.

The Talmud "definitively mentions" Yhashua.
- Provide the contemporary evidence of the Talmud having been written during the lifetime of Yhashua and that it specifically mentions him.

Well if you want to play a game , you can play, nut I quit .

Did Alexander Pushkin of Pythagoras existed you tell me

 

[Michael]

Well if you want to play a game , you can play, nut I quit .

Did Alexander Pushkin of Pythagoras existed you tell me

Firstly, an abusive ad hominem is a logical fallacy. A person can be "nutty" and still be perfectly correct. I'm sure there were plenty of Christians who thought Galileo Galilei was a "nut".

Secondly, I asked if there was contemporary evidence that Mosses, Jesus or Mohammad existed. I didn't ask: Did Mosses or Jesus or Mohammad exist. This is of course an unanswerable question. IOWs, your question is ignorant. It doesn't even resemble a logical question.

Lastly, Mosses, Jesus, Mohammad, Hercules, Zeus, Xenu, Santa Clause, etc... all of these people may have existed. There is no good evidence of any of them having existed. I'm sure if you were born in Japan 100 years ago you'd care less if Jesus existed and would worry more about what your God-Emperor was thinking instead. What I mean by that, I case you missed it, is that from your responses, you seem to be more interested in pushing your own agenda rather than finding out the truth. How typically Christian/Jewish/Muslim of you.

Sorry, but that's just not the way the world works. Things aren't true just because you really really really desperately wish they were true. It's highly likely that neither Mosses, Jesus or Mohammad existed. The historical record is replete with evidence of all sorts of long lost Prophets, Gods, Goddesses, Messiahs and now even Alien Overlords. Historically Mosses, Jesus and Mohammad aren't even that new, the Egyptians had gods thousands of years OLDER and worshiped them for thousands of years LONGER. The Mosses, Jesus and Mohammad stories aren't even that novel OR interesting. Most are just rehashed mashups of other people's stories. I've seen better on YouTube.

All of this suggests, these people did not exist.




Regardless, the nice thing here is this, (and this is something we can at least agree on) NO CONTEMPORARY EVIDENCE EXISTS FOR ANY OF THEM!!!

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

There's contemporary evidence of various Egyptian Pharaohs, Roman Emperors, Chinese Emperors, Persian Emperors, etc.... No, there are no photos, but there are statues. There are, at times, records of birth. None of this exits for Moses, Jesus or Mohammad which strongly suggests these people did not actually exist. More likely, like Hercules or Zeus, they're just myths.

If Jesus had been a normal person without supernatural powers, then the absence of records of him would not be remarkable. If a Palestinian came forth and said that his family has for twenty centuries been carrying the story of an ancient uncle named Jehoshuah who was a generous, hard-working carpenter in Nazareth with a flair for offering wise solutions to people's problems and everyone loved him... Well now that would not be enough evidence to prove that he existed. Yet at least it would be evidence. The Rule of Laplace would not apply to an assertion that is not extraordinary, and we would not argue with this family and insist that their beloved ancestor was imaginary. We would not petition the government to celebrate him on a postage stamp, but neither would we call these people deluded liars. We'd let them have their own version of their family history and we'd go home and say to each other, "Yeah okay, it could be true."

This is not the case with Jesus. For starters he was an extraordinary man who performed extraordinary feats, and it's ridiculous to assume that no contemporary records mention him. But furthermore, since he was an extraordinary man who performed extraordinary feats, the Rule of Laplace must be invoked. Extraordinary evidence is mandatory before we have any obligation to treat this assertion with respect.

To assume that something extraordinary is true, without evidence, can cause damage to civilization itself.

This should be rather obvious by now. Look at the incredible damage that the Jesus myth had done to this planet. His advocates are still fighting to the death with the advocates of Moses and Mohammed, over which version of a preposterous fairytale is the correct one.

 

[arauca]

Firstly, an abusive ad hominem is a logical fallacy. A person can be "nutty" and still be perfectly correct. I'm sure there were plenty of Christians who thought Galileo Galilei was a "nut".

Secondly, I asked if there was contemporary evidence that Mosses, Jesus or Mohammad existed. I didn't ask: Did Mosses or Jesus or Mohammad exist. This is of course an unanswerable question. IOWs, your question is ignorant. It doesn't even resemble a logical question.

Lastly, Mosses, Jesus, Mohammad, Hercules, Zeus, Xenu, Santa Clause, etc... all of these people may have existed. There is no good evidence of any of them having existed. I'm sure if you were born in Japan 100 years ago you'd care less if Jesus existed and would worry more about what your God-Emperor was thinking instead. What I mean by that, I case you missed it, is that from your responses, you seem to be more interested in pushing your own agenda rather than finding out the truth. How typically Christian/Jewish/Muslim of you.

Sorry, but that's just not the way the world works. Things aren't true just because you really really really desperately wish they were true. It's highly likely that neither Mosses, Jesus or Mohammad existed. The historical record is replete with evidence of all sorts of long lost Prophets, Gods, Goddesses, Messiahs and now even Alien Overlords. Historically Mosses, Jesus and Mohammad aren't even that new, the Egyptians had gods thousands of years OLDER and worshiped them for thousands of years LONGER. The Mosses, Jesus and Mohammad stories aren't even that novel OR interesting. Most are just rehashed mashups of other people's stories. I've seen better on YouTube.

All of this suggests, these people did not exist.




Regardless, the nice thing here is this, (and this is something we can at least agree on) NO CONTEMPORARY EVIDENCE EXISTS FOR ANY OF THEM!!!

I am trying to digest digest for you contemporary people of Yashua who do not have any thing to do with Christianity and who condemed him to the
death specially on my post # 40 ( Caifas and Anas ). Now if you don't know how things are written into the Talmud,that is an other problem of your ignorance. The incidence are written as diary by the scribe at that time . Now if this does not satisfy. Then please don't preach to me your atheism.

 

[arauca]

This should be rather obvious by now. Look at the incredible damage that the Jesus myth had done to this planet. His advocates are still fighting to the death with the advocates of Moses and Mohammed, over which version of a preposterous fairytale is the correct one.[/QUOTE]


Answer this question since I dint know technically which person are we referring . Do you mean Jesus or Yashua

What do you mean by Jesus myth ?
What preposterous fairytale do you mean ?

 

[Michael]

I am trying to digest digest for you contemporary people of Yashua who do not have any thing to do with Christianity and who condemed him to the
death specially on my post # 40 ( Caifas and Anas ). Now if you don't know how things are written into the Talmud,that is an other problem of your ignorance. The incidence are written as diary by the scribe at that time . Now if this does not satisfy. Then please don't preach to me your atheism.

There's controversial evidence for the existence of Caiaphas. That's not the same as having evidence for the existence of Jesus/Yahshua. Julius Caesar is mentioned in the Bible too, he's not evidence for Jesus either :shrug: (although, some would argue, the Iēsous mythology is a metaphor for Julius [Romans like to make these sorts of in-jokes regarding the ignorant masses and their idiotic superstitions])

 

[arauca]

There's controversial evidence for the existence of Caiaphas. That's not the same as having evidence for the existence of Jesus/Yahshua. Julius Caesar is mentioned in the Bible too, he's not evidence for Jesus either :shrug: (although, some would argue, the Iēsous mythology is a metaphor for Julius [Romans like to make these sorts of in-jokes regarding the ignorant masses and their idiotic superstitions])

Do you understand the Talmud or Midrash are not bible ?
Look you take your way and I will take my way, because we don' understand each other

 

[Michael]

Understanding one another really doens't factor at all into answering the question: Is there ANY contemporary evidence for the existence of Mosses, Jesus or Mohammad.

As it stands, unless you can provide some, the answer is nope.
All I can say is deal with it.

 

[arauca]

Understanding one another really doens't factor at all into answering the question: Is there ANY contemporary evidence for the existence of Mosses, Jesus or Mohammad.

As it stands, unless you can provide some, the answer is nope.
All I can say is deal with it.

Do you really understand why I am bringing the Talmud and why I am bringing the persons Anas and Caifas ?


The contemporary of Jesus were Caifas and Anas they prosecuted Jesus
The same persons Anas and Caifas procecured Peter and John several years later.. Anas and Caifas were important personality , so their Judgement is recorded in the Talmud.
So this people are contemporary of Jesus.
About Moses of Mohamed I have not looked into

 

[Michael]

Do you really understand why I am bringing the Talmud and why I am bringing the persons Anas and Caifas ?


The contemporary of Jesus were Caifas and Anas they prosecuted Jesus
The same persons Anas and Caifas procecured Peter and John several years later.. Anas and Caifas were important personality , so their Judgement is recorded in the Talmud.
So this people are contemporary of Jesus.
About Moses of Mohamed I have not looked into

Here's what you need to do. Provide evidence that either of these two people existed. Provide evidence for the date these particular stories in the Talmud were recorded. Then, you'll at least have that much.


Do you know how Rome was founded? It was founded by Aeneas as he escaped from Troy with help from Aphrodite. See, these stores were written much later and there is no contemporary evidence that either Aeneas OR Aphrodite ever existed. Is this making some sense yet? Now try and think about your own mythology. I'll await the citations with contemporary evidence of Jesus.

 

[kx000]

Why would the Jews who are not Jews kill Jesus, then not destroy all record of him? Don't you think Jesus would have written the bible himself?

 

[arauca]

Why would the Jews who are not Jews kill Jesus, then not destroy all record of him? Don't you think Jesus would have written the bible himself?

Jesus was a simple man who lived in Galilee a province influenced by Hwelenism. At his preaching time , there were several uprising against the Jewish ruling system which was in collaboration with the Romans. So the Jewish elders did not wanted that some one will tick the boat.
Jesus apparently had a large followers. So the ruling Jews decided to get rid of him . ( you remove the lieder and the sheep go astray ).

 

[arauca]

Here's what you need to do. Provide evidence that either of these two people existed. Provide evidence for the date these particular stories in the Talmud were recorded. Then, you'll at least have that much.


Do you know how Rome was founded? It was founded by Aeneas as he escaped from Troy with help from Aphrodite. See, these stores were written much later and there is no contemporary evidence that either Aeneas OR Aphrodite ever existed. Is this making some sense yet? Now try and think about your own mythology. I'll await the citations with contemporary evidence of Jesus.

I am familiar about myth ,
You are missing my point . A diary is written by the person describing daily events. What us written into the Talmud it was written on the time of the event by the scribes at that time.

 

[kx000]

Jesus was a simple man who lived in Galilee a province influenced by Hwelenism. At his preaching time , there were several uprising against the Jewish ruling system which was in collaboration with the Romans. So the Jewish elders did not wanted that some one will tick the boat.
Jesus apparently had a large followers. So the ruling Jews decided to get rid of him . ( you remove the lieder and the sheep go astray ).

Isn't funny these same Romans started the Holy Roman Catholic (*Christian?) Church? They kill the man, then 150 years later the dedicate a church of liars to him? I smell something, and its fishy.