A lot of the OT is anachronistic, but do they have camels in the Levant?
Is Islam actually Judaism ?
- Thread starter arauca
- Start date
A lot of the OT is anachronistic, but do they have camels in the Levant?
How hard di you searched, perhaps you are one of those ME TO. who depend
on what is put on your plate.
The point has been made on these boards for, what, 8 or 9 years? Tens of thousands of posts later and what we know is this: There is NO contemporary evidence for Mosses, Jesus or Mohammad.
Considering the silliness of the mythology, this shouldn't be all that surprising :shrug: The "Jews" built the Pyramids
hehe... yeah, that's a good one. "Noah" (not Gilgamesh... "Noah") built the ark and saved humanity from the flood ... Judaism is the basis for Christianity and Islam.
I can see Jews from 1500 years ago holding up signs "It's all the Egyptians fault we live in mud huts" Oh, and we built the Pyramids and and and ... ah, oh, we saved humanity from the flood (ducks into mud hut to see just what other wondrous things him pappy did)
Are you still pushing this stupid claim?
Please point out where there is any "atheist preaching".
There is an inverse way to forward your point and this is how the atheist is bringing teaching forward
You are not dumb , you know what I mean.
The point has been made on these boards for, what, 8 or 9 years? Tens of thousands of posts later and what we know is this: There is NO contemporary evidence for Mosses, Jesus or Mohammad.
Considering the silliness of the mythology, this shouldn't be all that surprising :shrug: The "Jews" built the Pyramids
Judaism is the basis for Christianity and Islam.
I can see Jews from 1500 years ago holding up signs "It's all the Egyptians fault we live in mud huts" Oh, and we built the Pyramids and and and ... ah, oh, we saved humanity from the flood (ducks into mud hut to see just what other wondrous things him pappy did)
No one is saying Jews build the pyramids beside you .
You could not even mention the name in Gilgamesh poem the man who saved his family in the flood .
I don't think you have much to offer beside derragatory remarks .
Yes, what you mean is that presenting evidence, allowing questions and letting someone examine that evidence is, somehow, classed as "preaching" by you.
Is that because it's easier than actually trying to show where we're wrong or presenting your own case?
My apologies if I sounded a bit too facetious.
On a serious note: Post the contemporary evidence for the existence of Moses, Jesus or Mohammad. If you can not, then we will agree that you have conceded the argument in my favor and there is NO contemporary evidence that any of these people ever existed.
Last edited:
Why don't you check http://www.netzarim.co.il/
Pronunciation Table Hear it! [Updated: 2007.01.29]
Pâ•qid′, pl. פְּקִידִים (pәqid•im′); Biblical Hebrew: overseer, supervisor, monitor, auditor or commissioner as found in bә-Reish•it′ 41.34; Mәlâkh•im′ Beit 25.19; Di•vәr•ei′ ha-Yâm•im′ Beit 31.13; Yi•rәmәyâh′u 29.26; et al. In modern Hebrew, a Pâ•qid′ is a clerk. This is the Hebrew term Hellenized in LXX Greek as επισκοπος (episkopos; inquisitioner, critical-examiner) and later rendered in Vulgar Latin as ebiscopus—which was then anglicized to "bishop."
Notice that for the first few centuries—until the 3rd century, documented below—there were only bishops—no "popes"!!!
The Hebrew derives from the verb פָּקַד (pâ•qad′; he supervised, oversaw—i.e., exacted accountability [Ho•shei′a 1.4], held accountable, mustered, monitored or audited). This was understood in the Hellenist community as επισκεπτομαι (episkeptomai; judge critically, examine).
The fem. noun cognate, פּקֻדָּה (pәqud•âh′), an overseeing, supervision, mustering or auditing.
The first 15 pәqid•im′ are listed by the earliest extant Church historian, (EH loc. cit. and "Jerusalem," EJ 9:1405). More documentation and details are found in Who Are the Netzarim? Live-Link (WAN Live-Link)
The first 15 pәqid•im′ ha-Nәtzâr•im′ were:
(Dates of Tenure Approximated)
30—ca. 62 C.E. (according to Josephus, see History Museum, Suk•âh′ 6)—Pâ•qid′ Ya•a•qov′ "ha-Tza•diq′" Bën-Dâ•wid′—brother of Rib′i Yәho•shu′a Bën-Dâ•wid′—the Mâ•shi′akh
ca. 63—ca. 107 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Shim•on′ "ha-Tza•diq′" Bën-Khël′ëph (Hellenized to "Clopas"), murdered by Trajan for being a royal descendent of Dâ•wid′ (Hegesippus according to Eusebius EH III.xii.19-20, 32; xxxii.1-6). From this point, Hellenist Romans appear to have consistently hunted them down and assassinated them.
ca. 107—ca. 110 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Tzi•dәq•i•yâh′ "ha-Tza•diq′" (the first)
ca. 110—ca. 113 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Zәkhar•yah′ "ha-Tza•diq′"
ca. 113—ca. 115 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Tov•i•yâh′ "ha-Tza•diq′"
ca. 115—ca. 117 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Bin•yâ•min′ "ha-Tza•diq′"
ca. 117—ca. 119 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Yo•khâ•nân′ "ha-Tza•diq′"
ca. 119—ca. 121 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Ma•tit•yâh′u "ha-Tza•diq′"
ca. 121—ca. 123 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Për′ësh "ha-Tza•diq′" (Hellenized by Eusebius to 'Philip')
ca. 123—ca. 125 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Sәna•âh′ "ha-Tza•diq′" (Hellenized by Eusebius to 'Seneca')
ca. 125—ca. 127 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Tzi•dәq•i•yâh′ "ha-Tza•diq′" (the second)
ca. 127—ca. 129 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Lei•wi′ "ha-Tza•diq′"
ca. 129—ca. 131 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Ë•phәr•ay′im "ha-Tza•diq′"
ca. 131—ca. 133 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Yo•seiph′ "ha-Tza•diq′"
ca. 133 –135 C.E.—Pâ•qid′ Yәhud•âh′ "ha-Tza•diq′," who was ousted and exiled from Yәru•shâ•lay′im by the gentile Hellenist Romans in 135 C.E. (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History IV.v.3), being usurped by Markos, the first gentile "bishop," who is the only documented (not retroactively fabricated) origin of the tradition of "popes," who thereby are documented to have arrogated rightful authority from the Nәtzâr•im′ Pâ•qid′ and are, therefore, counterfeit displacers of the Nәtzâr•im′ Pâ•qid′ (see section on "Papal Succession" in our History Museum, click on "Apostasy" in menu at top). Legitimate authority remains unchanged—in the Eyes of the Ël•oh•im′ of Israel—with the Nәtzâr•im′ Pâ•qid′, restored in the generation of the reemergence of the State of Israel; like Israel itself, after a long hiatus concluding the Age of the Expulsion from Israel (the 'Dark-Age of the Gentiles').
Thus, there have only been 15 pәqid•im′ in the legitimate (Pharisee ⇒ Orthodox) Jewish community in which Rib′i Yәho•shu′a and the original Nәtzâr•im′ lived and taught until our generation—when, for the first time since 135 C.E., a Nәtzâr•im′ Pâ•qid′, the 16th, has again been accepted in good standing, restoring the Nәtzâr•im′ to the same legitimate (Pharisee ⇒ Orthodox) Jewish community in which Rib′i Yәho•shu′a and the original Nәtzâr•im′ lived and taught!!!
Unlike any of the fakes, Pâ•qid′ Yi•rәmәyâh′u has been an Orthodox Israeli Jew in good standing in an Orthodox synagogue (Moreshet Avot in Ra'anana, Israel) since 1998.
No others claiming to be "Netzarim" are accepted in the legitimate (Pharisee ⇒ Orthodox) Jewish community in which Rib′i Yәho•shu′a and the original Nәtzâr•im′ lived and taught. Thus, all others claiming to be "Netzarim" without being recognized by our Beit-Din are fakes and deceivers!
Hadrian (117-138 C.E.)
Hadrian (117-138 C.E.)
The earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius, documents (EH IV.v.3) that in 135 C.E. Hellenist proto-Christians, collaborating with the Hellenist Roman occupiers under Hadrian, forcibly ousted and expelled the 15th Nәtzâr•im′ Pâ•qid′ from Yәru•shâ•lay′im with the other Jews, displacing him with the first Roman gentile—Christian—bishop: Επισκοπος Μαρκος (Episkopos Markos; Bishop Markos)—thereby usurping the Nәtzâr•im′ paqid with the first gentile Christian "bishop." This marks the true birth of Christianity and the Church.
Until Hegesippus in the 3rd century, there were only bishops—no popes!!! Hegesippus himself documents that he fabricated the Papal Succession: εποιησαμην, (epoieisamein; "I made) the list of the succession…." This is the first aorist indicative middle singular of ποιεω (poieo, "I make" or "I do"). Even this is documented no earlier than the 4th century C.E., by Eusebius (EH IV.xxii.3). See also, inter alia, "Pius I," Smith & Wace, "A Dictionary of Christian Biography," IV.416 and Yi•rәmәyâh′u Bën- Dâ•wid′, Who Are the Netzarim? Live-Link (WAN Live-Link)). Hegesippus then projected his fabrication of the 3rd century back to "Simon Peter."
OK, you've provided some contemporary evidence to support your hypothesis there were no popes in the 2nd century. That's not contemporary evidence for Moses, Jesus or Mohammad.
Can you provide contemporary evidence of Guaycaypuro, Caboto , Atahualpa , who come up with the Pythagorean theorem and were it come from ? What was the true last name of Columbus ? Who discovered North America ?
I pointed to you about Yashua Y can find the beginning of the way = halaka ---> Nazarene ------> Christianity
Perhaps you want a picture of his birthday party and a birth certificate
Camels were domesticated in the Horn of Africa at least 4000 years ago. One would presume that they made it over to Arabia in fairly short order, given the proximity.
Why is that relevant? Plenty of ways to get from the Levant to Arabia other than going directly across nasty deserts.
There is contemporary evidence for many, MANY, historical figures.
There is no contemporary evidence of Moses, Jesus or Mohammad. It's that simple. That doesn't mean these people did not exist, only that the evidence for them existing is no different than the evidence that, say, Hercules, Thor or The Pixie King existed. There is evidence of wives-tales being passed on down the ages. But only that. And, for me, that's just not good enough :shrug:
Essentially, based on our responses, I would surmise that had we been born in medieval Japan, you'd be praying and giving offerings to your local Shinto Tree God, worrying about the whether the water Gods would bring rain (along with most everyone else) and I'd probably be questing the existence of those things.
What more do you want ?
30—ca. 62 C.E. (according to Josephus, see History Museum, Suk•âh′ 6)—Pâ•qid′ Ya•a•qov′ "ha-Tza•diq′" Bën-Dâ•wid′—__brother of Rib′i __Yәho•shu′a Bën-Dâ•wid′—the Mâ•shi′akh
I really could care less if you don't want to accept , you are entitle to your opinion
It really matters not what either of us "want". Opinion isn't really that important either. It basically comes down to IS there contemporary evidence or not?
Josephus is close. He didn't know Jesus and wasn't his contemporary. Some versions of Testimonium mention Jesus while other do not, some mention Jesus as "Christ" and others mention Jesus as a good man.
Regardless, there are not contemporary accounts. They're not good contemporary evidence.
One would think that, oh I don't, God, creator of the Universe and reality itself, would have left some sort of contemporary evidence of his presence here on Earth. Not to do so, would only have been to purposefully to fool around with people in the future.
i SUPPOSE if I mention the the Act of Apostols Ch, 4 verse,5 There it mentioned a high priest Anas , Caifas who interrogate John and Peter.
The same persons Caifas and Anas in mentioned is mentioned un St John ch.18 verse 24. Those high priest are who condemned Yhashua to death.
were definitively contemporary.
You have to go to read in the Talmud or Mishna in that period . The Talmud definitively mentions Yhashua ( Jesus )