Is God not responsible for everything?

I have a girlfriend. If i have a child with her i know it will be a mass murderer. I have the child. I tell the child he can be anything he wants to be when he grows up. He believes me....and becomes a mass murderer.

Me and my girlfriend were wrong for having the child becuase we knew it would be a mass murderer despite our wishes. \

Just like GOD

My girlfriend and i were wrong? Yes. So is god wrong for creating people he knows will go to hell? yes!

Defy my logic.

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Romans 9:20-23

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

Also...

2 Tim. 2:20

20 "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour"
 
#21 looks like...

So god is the potter and he makes some people lumps of dishonor and makes others precious masterpieces...

This is why i disagree with the bible, it paints an ugly picture of GOD.

What happened to him wishing that none perish or he loves everyone equally?

The god in the bible is very inconsistent.
 
So god is the potter and he makes some people lumps of dishonor and makes others precious masterpieces...

This is why i disagree with the bible, it paints an ugly picture of GOD.

What happened to him wishing that none perish or he loves everyone equally?

The god in the bible is very inconsistent.

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No........He's not inconsistent, but He is hidding himself..
God hiding in simplicity, and revealing Himself in the same.

The bible's accurate.
The Sons of God (vessels of Honor) are a part of God's own life.
There is nothing eternal but God.
They came from God and go back to God.
Thats what Redeemed means.

Cain was not the son of Adam..........the serpent was His father.
Proof of it is all through the scriptures.

Thus created the sons of men before the flood.
The sons of god were Adam's ...........
Man fell...Jesus had to come by the spokenword not sexual desire.
He was God coming to redeem that which was lost.
The serpent was an animal...no soul.
The children of disobedience are not saved.
Neither was Judas, he was the son of perdition.
God does have an economy though, people who are saved because of ...for example being kind to His "little ones"

To show His Glory, revealed in a people in this day ....
He come to be glorified IN His saints.....
And He is the Word.

John 1:1-2

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God

John 1:14

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

1 Corinthians 2:7 - But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
 
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Your right He's not inconsistent

The bible is.

So your saying that some people are the "seeds of the devil" and others are "seeds of god" thru Adam and Cain.

Do the seeds of the devil have the same chance of redemption as the seeds of god?

if not, then God is truly unfair. How unlucky are those born of the seed of the devil.
 
i forgot

There is no way in Hell you can argue that the Bible is simple.

Christianity wouldn't be so divided if it was simple.

You wouldn't have to look at Historical context, translations, hidden word meanging etc. if it was simple.

Why would he hide knowledge if he wants all to be saved? This means that the dumber you are, the worse your chances are to getting to heaven because you have to "figure out" the meaning.

A child should be able to read the bible and understand but instead it takes "20 years" (like yourself) of reading to get a total grasp on it and see through wrong interpretations and human errors.

This makes no sense to me...:confused:
 
A child should be able to read the bible and understand but instead it takes "20 years" (like yourself) of reading to get a total grasp on it and see through wrong interpretations and human errors.

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Your right a child could not err therein.
That's scripture.

It's not unfair.....It's God right to do want he wants....

Do the seeds of the devil have the same chance of redemption as the seeds of god?

if not, then God is truly unfair. How unlucky are those born of the seed of the devil.

Cain murdered His brother...........
Before that God had rejected his offering,.
He had a second chance to "do as his brother"
God was more than fair.
Instead of taking that chance ...He murdered his brother.

This is a good example
 
But if you receive the Word of God today, and the end came or you died tomorrow....

You will only be judged on the truth you knew.....

To whom much has been given, much shall be required......

God's rich in mercy.
 
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Originally posted by TheVisitor
But if you receive the Word of God today, and the end came or you died tomorrow....

You will only be judged on the truth you knew.....

To whom much has been given, much shall be required......

God's rich in mercy.
Click to expand...

You know I have read a lot of your posts and your knowledge of the word tells me you get this knowledge not of yourself and you speak the truth.
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
The bible's accurate.
Once again... not an translated version. You've admitted this yourself.

The Sons of God ... Cain was not the son of Adam..........the serpent was His father... Proof of it is all through the scriptures.
You do realize that your post in no way answered the question right?

It's not unfair.....It's God right to do want he wants....
I force you to play a game where the rules are stacked so you will lose. That would be unfair. Do not redefine 'fair' just to fit the actions of God.

How unlucky are those born of the seed of the devil.
Cain murdered His brother. Before that God had rejected his offering. He had a second chance to "do as his brother" God was more than fair. Instead of taking that chance ...He murdered his brother.
Once again you didn't answer the question. What did the newborn do that they deserved to be shunned by God? It's a stacked deck.

But if you receive the Word of God today, and the end came or you died tomorrow.... You will only be judged on the truth you knew..... To whom much has been given, much shall be required......
So in English does that mean people who are in societies that have never heard of Jesus will not go to Heaven?

God's rich in mercy.
Maybe He should have shares some of that mercy with the people of the many cities He convinced people to destroy.
 
God's rich in mercy.
Maybe He should have shares some of that mercy with the people of the many cities He convinced people to destroy

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It's too bad you feel that way.
But God changes not....
Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever...

That means.........When He comes, He slays everything contrary to His Word......

You want to see that.?

Rev 18:23
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee:

The end of the Church Ages (1963)


Rev 19:1
1 And after these things (what things? the end of the church ages ...the coming of the Son of Man) I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, (heavenly places in Christ Jesus)...saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore (Rev. 18: 1-4), which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Thats today...friends

Rev. 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God

Somebody has the true sayings then........TODAY


Rev. 19:10

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

(What.......John fell down to worship some one He thought was God, who told him not to , said "I'm your brother......
Follow it back.....It's the one with the message today.
See....He's seeing this in HIS future...on the Lords day (today)
This is 2003 you know. We're well into the seventh day now.)

Rev 19:16
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God.

Rev. 19:21
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh

Literally, it's not a pretty sight
Spiritually speaking it's even worse.....the fouls are demons.

(We're...the children of God, feeding on the revealed Word...the "flesh" of the Son of Man...those true sayings....
When Christ comes........and He has.

And Satan and his demons come down at the same time to feed on those who've turned it down....(The Great Harlot's been judged, become the habitation of devils, Rev 18:1-4, remember)

Remember those serpents of fire that swooped down on the Israelites when they turned to idolatry in the wilderness....
Just a thought.....

When you turn away from the Word of God .....
There's nothing left but judgement.
Flee to Him while there's still time my friends.

He is the Rock which if you fall upon, shall break you to pieces..
(to be re-made in His Image)....but
If He falls on you.....You will be ground to powder....
 
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You fell in the Paradox

Originally posted by TheVisitor
But if you receive the Word of God today, and the end came or you died tomorrow....

You will only be judged on the truth you knew.....

To whom much has been given, much shall be required......

God's rich in mercy.
Click to expand...

This is the paradox that Christians who put all their faith in the Bible fall in.

I've often asked Bible thumpers specific questions about salvation which they quickly quote scriptures in response. Then when I ask difficult questions about the salvation of 3rd world people and tribal soceties they turn around and say "Well the general message is...." How can you go from "The Bible says this is the only way right here!!!" to "Well god will only judge on the truth you knew"

The Bible gives specific directions as to what is required to qet into Heaven. Yes or No?

Many people will not get those directions due to cultrual influence (anti-christian gov'ts), isolation (tribal peoples), birth defects(insane,blind,retarded). So what is their avenue of salvation? Does God re-nig on what the Bible says and make exceptions?
If God allowed someone who didn't believe in Jesus's divinity into heaven then he would be contradicting what "his Word" says. But if believing in Jesus is mandatory, then all Jews and Muslims who where cutrally forced into a religion are damned.:confused:
 
The Bible gives specific directions as to what is required to qet into Heaven. Yes or No?
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Really, tell me what they are?
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
The Bible gives specific directions as to what is required to qet into Heaven. Yes or No?
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Really, tell me what they are?
The writers of the Bible seem to disagree

Matthew 10:22 - he who endures to the end, will be saved
Matthew 24:13 - he who endures to the end, will be saved
Mark 13:13 - he who endures to the end, will be saved
Mark 16:16 - believing and being baptized have you saved; not believing will have you damned
Acts 2:21 - that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved
Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
John 12:32 - Jesus states he will draw ALL men to him
These may not be exclusive, but if all are valid options then why not say so?

John 3:5 - People who are not baptized will not be saved
Leaves out a large portion of the population

Acts 16:31 -Believing will save you and your household, which implies that they don't need to believe (otherwise way include household?)
You can be saved by a family members belief?



The following contradict
1Timothy 2:4 - God will have all men saved
Romans 9:27 - Only some will be saved
Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 also confirm that only some will be saved
Revelation 14:3 - only 144,000 virgin men will be saved

Romans 2:13 - doers of the law will be justified
Romans 3:20 - doers of the law will not be justified
Galatians 3:11 - doers of the law will not be justified

John 5:38-47 - men have a choice as to receive Jesus
John 6:44 - no one can come to Jesus unless he is drawn by the Father.
John 12:32 - Jesus states he will draw ALL men to him

John 5:24 - believers will not be judged
Matthew 12:36 - believers will be judged
2Corinthians 5:10 - believers will be judged
Hebrews 9:27 - believers will be judged
1Peter 1:17 - believers will be judged
Jude 1:14-15 - believers will be judged
Revelation 20:12-13 - believers will be judged

Luke 14:26 - no one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his parents, wife, children, brothers and sisters
John 3:15 - whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and will not be saved

Matthew 7:21 - everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved
Acts 2:21 - whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved
Romans 10:13 - whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved
Acts 2:39 - only those God calls to himself will be saved
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
I told you their were two races...........
The Seed of God, and the Seed of Discrepency......
Click to expand...
And these two races survived the flood how?
 
I told you their were two races...........
The Seed of God, and the Seed of Discrepency......

And these two races survived the flood how?

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This is New Testement, the children of disobedience, and the children of God..........

The vessels of honor and the vessel of dishonor

Those that turn the word down and walk away.....John 6:66
and those that are called to the wedding supper to feast on the "true sayings of God"


But if you really want to know...........


Jesus said: "you called them gods whom the word of God came to, and they were"..........Speaking of the prophets

There's one...........

The last of the giants were all killed by King David and his mighty men.

There's the other.....not that it means anthing, because they mixed, before the flood....remember.
Before the days of Noah.

The difference is in the soul realm now..............

Faith or doubt..........it's that simple
 
Originally posted by Persol

The writers of the Bible seem to disagree

Matthew 10:22 - he who endures to the end, will be saved
He is speaking to the disciples and their journeys to spread the Gospel. He is talking about the end of their life not the "End Times".

Matthew 24:13 - he who endures to the end, will be saved
He is discussing the "End Times" here and saying that those who endure to the end will be saved. Those who believe in God.

Mark 13:13 - he who endures to the end, will be saved
This is again talking about the 'End Times" in both these instances he is talking about those who are preaching the Gospel and or those who believe in God they are hated and persecuted but if they endure to the end they will be saved.

Mark 16:16 - believing and being baptized have you saved; not believing will have you damned
He is speaking to the Apostles here. When they were preaching the gospels those who believe and are baptised are saved those who do not believe after hearing them are condemned.

Acts 2:21 - that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved
This is speaking of the "End Times " and God is merciful that even at this stage if they call on the name of the lord they will be saved.

Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
This speaks for itself.

John 12:32 - Jesus states he will draw ALL men to him
He does not say how they are drawn.............as many hate him as love him, as many believe in him as disbelieve in him and this will only get worse.
You are drawn to things through Hatred as you are through Love.


John 3:5 - People who are not baptized will not be saved
Leaves out a large portion of the population
The use of the term water here is reflected in the meaning repentance. but he also goes on to state in this verse: Unless a man be born of water (repentance) and of Spirit (being born again The Holy Spirit), He cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. While John baptised with water, Christ baptised with the Holy Spirit.
He will seperate the wheat from the chaff with "Fire and The Holy Spirit"


Acts 16:31 -Believing will save you and your household, which implies that they don't need to believe (otherwise way include household?)
This is again during the times of the Apostle Paul.
If you go on to read the other 2 verses. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same Hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptised, he and all his, straightway.
After hearing the word they knew and all his house were baptised.


I see no disagreement here.
I will address those things which you say are contradictions soon............
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Weeeeeeeeeeeee the christians are right!!! Damn... i'm in real shit now- im a jew :D Oh well..... when im judged at 'the end' i'll just say it was down to cultural influence.
 
Originally posted by SnakeLord
Weeeeeeeeeeeee the christians are right!!! Damn... i'm in real shit now- im a jew :D Oh well..... when im judged at 'the end' i'll just say it was down to cultural influence.
Click to expand...

Paul defines a true Jew in Romans 2:28-29: For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
 
Romans 2:28-29

Thats a good one...I was looking for something along those lines the other day on a post about eating pork...

The law wasn't done away with, but magnified when Jesus came.

Unclean animals, The sabbath, The circumcision ect....
were all types in the Old testement done as a physical act, meant to be carried to the realm of the heart in New testament teaching.

The law is written on the tables of your heart today.

"The day is coming, and now is......"
 
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