Is God not responsible for everything?

Is there a hell?

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Where did he go. Surely Satan would not fall from heaven into heaven.

Revelations 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
God knows everything.

2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Ask for forgiveness (repent). And to think all I have to do is ask.
Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luke11:10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Revelations 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Revelations 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelations 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Where Satan dwelleth. Hmmm. If Satan fell from heaven lilke lightning I wonder where he dwelleth.
 
Re: Re: Is God not responsible for Human Suffering?

Originally posted by eddie monkey
Is a contractor who builds and sells a house to two people responsible for everything that happens in it from that point on?
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yes, especially if he also created the 2 people.
 
Re: Is God not responsible for Human Suffering?

Originally posted by Mrhero54
God created everything thing right? So is he not directly or at least indirectly responible for everything? (Human suffering)
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if He controls EVERYTHING as the believers say,then YES.
 
Is there a Hell

Revelations 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Where Satan dwelleth. Hmmm. If Satan fell from heaven lilke lightning I wonder where he dwelleth.

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Isaiah 14:12-15 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Take this and what is says in Rev 2:13 above and you can see he was cast down to the earth - for a time and then will go to Hell

Now He has carried out His plan to assend up above the stars of heaven (the sons of god), and be worshiped as God by all the peoples of the earth.....

Rev 12:12

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

And all the world who's names are not written in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the earth., shall be deceived.
 
Answer this question (anybody) Please!!!!!

God knows everyting.

People(christians/jew/muslims/etc.) dont seem to understand what this implies.

It does not mean that we do not have free will. It does not mean that we do not have free will.

Now that i've wrote it twice....God knows what you are going to do in your life but you don't, you still have to make your own decisions for better or worse.

With that said, it does not matter how many choices one has during life, all their choices will form only one path from birth to their final destination(heaven/hell)

God knows everything. He can see past all those choices to the one path a person will take, wheter it leads to have or hell.

If god knows jonny will have a thousand right choices but for whatever reasons (genetics,environment,peer influence, satan)he will chose only wrong choices, (thus ending up in hell)_why did he create jonny in the first place?

Please focus on that last scenario, help me understand!! :confused:
 
Mr Hero

Looks like Johnny wants to blame GOD for going to hell by placing the blame on his decisions when Johnny has the ability to choose. Hence the phrase free will. Hell was created for those that did not choose to worship GOD. Can light coexist with darkness. Can the land coexist with the water. Probably live on mud. Hell was created to place those who would rather choose to sin and be apart from GOD and live eternally with those who made the same choices. Creating a place for all those that want to sin. Guess its the Six Flags for Sinners. A very fiery six flags.
 
The Visitor

Isaiah 14:12-15 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Take this and what is says in Rev 2:13 above and you can see he was cast down to the earth - for a time and then will go to Hell

Now He has carried out His plan to assend up above the stars of heaven (the sons of god), and be worshiped as God by all the peoples of the earth.....

He has not carried out any plan to assend up above the stars of heaven. If you look at the verse directly, 13 For thou hast said in thine heart. He has seen what he said in his heart. That is a thought that Lucifer wants from the heart. That is what he wishes. The whole reason he was sent down because he wanted to be above GOD. Then it states as an action not a thought, 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." One was a thought and the other an action. He never carried out any plan.
 
Re: Re: Is God not responsible for Human Suffering?

quote:
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Originally posted by eddie monkey
Is a contractor who builds and sells a house to two people responsible for everything that happens in it from that point on?
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spur monkey
yes, especially if he also created the 2 people.



Am I responsible for the messages you type. Gateway built my computer but are they responsible for your thoughts. Should i hold them accountable for your thoughts. In this scenario to your contractor I see that God is not responsible.
 
consequent atheist

Re: Is there a hell?

quote:
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Originally posted by jjr505
Luke ...
Revelations ...
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A fairy-tale founded on fiction ...


JJR505
This from someone who doesn't understand Achilles and the tortoise......
 
Re: consequent atheist

Originally posted by jjr505
This from someone who doesn't understand Achilles and the tortoise......
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The comment is more sophomoric than salient. That you found it worth making speaks volumes. I will gladly discuss Zeno, sequences and their limits, Hofstadter and/or self referential systems if and when you prove worth the effort.

In the interim, you might try something less vapid than quoting the Bible to substantiate the Bible. This is particularly true of your mindless reference to the "sons of god", the source of which evidently escapes you.
 
Again the point is missed...

Originally posted by jjr505
Looks like Johnny wants to blame GOD for going to hell by placing the blame on his decisions when Johnny has the ability to choose. Hence the phrase free will. Hell was created for those that did not choose to worship GOD. Can light coexist with darkness. Can the land coexist with the water. Probably live on mud. Hell was created to place those who would rather choose to sin and be apart from GOD and live eternally with those who made the same choices. Creating a place for all those that want to sin. Guess its the Six Flags for Sinners. A very fiery six flags.
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Let's try again.

I have a girlfriend. If i have a child with her i know it will be a mass murderer. I have the child. I tell the child he can be anything he wants to be when he grows up. He believes me....and becomes a mass murderer.

Me and my girlfriend were wrong for having the child becuase we knew it would be a mass murderer despite our wishes. \

Just like GOD

My girlfriend and i were wrong? Yes. So is god wrong for creating people he knows will go to hell? yes!

Defy my logic.
 
I'm waiting for a straight answer

Spare me scriptures unless they have logical relevance.

My last post presents logic that jews/christians/etc. refuse to examine. Stop spending all of your time in the bible and THINK.

Just for the record....I believe in God.
 
Re: Again the point is missed...

Originally posted by Mrhero54
Let's try again.

I have a girlfriend. If i have a child with her i know it will be a mass murderer. I have the child. I tell the child he can be anything he wants to be when he grows up. He believes me....and becomes a mass murderer.

Me and my girlfriend were wrong for having the child becuase we knew it would be a mass murderer despite our wishes. \

Just like GOD

My girlfriend and i were wrong? Yes. So is god wrong for creating people he knows will go to hell? yes!

Defy my logic.
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The problem with your logic is that there is no way that you can forcast human behavior, and there was no way that you could have known before the child was born that he was going to be a mass murderer. Also god does not train people to be one thing or another......So the comparison of god to parents raising up children is not accurate.
 
Heflores

Originally posted by heflores
The problem with your logic is that there is no way that you can forcast human behavior, and there was no way that you could have known before the child was born that he was going to be a mass murderer. Also god does not train people to be one thing or another......So the comparison of god to parents raising up children is not accurate.
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There's no way to forcast human behavior????

God can't forcast human behavior???:bugeye:

God knew what Hitler would become. If he didn't, then your saying god does not know the future. Hitler's burning in Hell now (hypothetically). God knew Hitler would be in Hell when he was a only child, an infant, and just a little twinkle in his fathers eye.

God created Hitler knowing he would go to hell.
 
Everything was created in spirit before being created spiritually. There were two plans proposed. The first was Lucifer's, he said that everyone would come back(to heaven), and he would get the glory. God didn't like that plan, so he chose Christ, who agreed with god to do what's happening now. Satan apparently tried a coup or something, because everyone who was on his side was cast out. Since you're here, you obviously sided with God and Jesus, believing that you stood a pretty good chance of passing the test. It was not God's choice, it was yours.
 
Originally posted by Gifted
Everything was created in spirit before being created spiritually. There were two plans proposed. The first was Lucifer's, he said that everyone would come back(to heaven), and he would get the glory. God didn't like that plan, so he chose Christ, who agreed with god to do what's happening now. Satan apparently tried a coup or something, because everyone who was on his side was cast out. Since you're here, you obviously sided with God and Jesus, believing that you stood a pretty good chance of passing the test. It was not God's choice, it was yours.
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What the hell are you talking about!!??

God knows everyting...why would anyone propose a plan to him. That's suggesting he's incompotent.

I've bet you've never seen god, but you know enough about him not to fuck with him. So WHY would Satan (who's known him longer and more personally then you) try a coup against and all powerful being!!??

That's like PEE WEE Herman fighting MIKE Tyson.

And the last statement...STILL NOT GETTING THE POINT.

Even if i Chose to come down here, GOD knows if i will pass or fail. If i'm destined to fail...WHY WOULD HE LET ME COME DOWN HERE???

That's like allowing your 12 year old daughter to go to a party KNOWING she will be gang raped by rabid baboons with herepes on primetime T.V..

Go Back to the Insane Asylum until you've thought things out more clearly.
 
Take this and what is says in Rev 2:13 above and you can see he was cast down to the earth - for a time and then will go to Hell

I agree with this...but did you know Hell is for a period of time too.
It someday with the devil, will be done away with....

The correct translation is "to the vanishing point".




Now He has carried out His plan to assend up above the stars of heaven (the sons of god), and be worshiped as God by all the peoples of the earth.....

He has not carried out any plan to assend up above the stars of heaven. If you look at the verse directly, 13 For thou hast said in thine heart. He has seen what he said in his heart. That is a thought that Lucifer wants from the heart. That is what he wishes. The whole reason he was sent down because he wanted to be above GOD. Then it states as an action not a thought, 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." One was a thought and the other an action. He never carried out any plan.

Oh, but He has.

Rev. 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
 
Visitor, GLAD YOUR HERE

I'm having trouble getting people to focus on the question. Please read ealier post about My girlfriend and i having a mass murder child and respond. I wish heflores was here...
 
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