Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[Write4U]

Mathematics don't make things move, nor do they make things move in specific, repeatable ways.

What makes things move in specific, repeatable ways is forces. There are four. When a given mass encounters a given force, it will always result in the same outcome.

Mathematics describes how we see things move due to forces.

Mathematics describes the mathematical imperatives physical forces must obey. Change the value of the force and the mathematics require a new equation in behaviors.

Is gravity a physical object or a geometric tensor?

Quantum Geometric Tensor (Fubini-Study Metric) in Simple Quantum

INTRODUCTION; The most intriguing feature of modern physics is the introduction of geometrical concepts describing fundamental principles of nature [1]. One one hand, the gravity emerges as the local space-time symmetry, where comparison between nearby local frames naturally gives rise to the concept of Christoffel connection

On the other hand, electroweak and strong interactions are unified by Yang-Mills theory, which identifies the gauge interactions as local symmetries of internal degrees of freedom.

Similarly, comparison between nearby frames of the internal spaces (e.g., for SU(2), the three isospin axis) introduces the gauge connection. In electromagnetic theory, this reduces to the Weyl’s principle where the gauge connection is the usual four-potential Aµ. The nature resumes all the observed interactions by simply obeying space-time and gauge symmetries

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1012.1337.pdf

i.e. the relative values in any action dictate the mathematical functions of that action.

Christoffel symbols
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In mathematics and physics, the Christoffel symbols are an array of numbers describing a metric connection.[1] The metric connection is a specialization of the affine connection to surfaces or other manifolds endowed with a metric, allowing distances to be measured on that surface. In differential geometry, an affine connection can be defined without reference to a metric, and many additional concepts follow: parallel transport, covariant derivatives, geodesics, etc. also do not require the concept of a metric.

However, when a metric is available, these concepts can be directly tied to the "shape" of the manifold itself; that shape is determined by how the tangent space is attached to the cotangent space by the metric tensor.

Abstractly, one would say that the manifold has an associated (orthonormal)
frame bundle, with each "frame" being a possible choice of a coordinate frame. An invariant metric implies that the structure group of the frame bundle is the orthogonal group O(p, q). As a result, such a manifold is necessarily a (pseudo-)Riemannian manifold.

The Christoffel symbols provide a concrete representation of the connection of (pseudo-)Riemannian geometry in terms of coordinates on the manifold. Additional concepts, such as parallel transport, geodesics, etc. can then be expressed in terms of Christoffel symbols.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoffel_symbols

 

[DaveC426913]

Mathematics describes the mathematical imperatives physical forces must obey.

This is nonsensical. It literally says that mathematics describes itself.


When we remove the redundant nonsensical part, what we get is:

Mathematics describes the physical forces.

There you go. I have repaired your religion by turning it into science. I imagine this is a good day for you.

 

[Write4U]

Your idea has no predictive value or falsifiability that would distinguish a universe where it exists from one where it does not.

Yes it does.
a) mathematics have great predictive value. The actual creation of Higgs boson is an example of predictive mathematics. No prayer has ever been answered by a supernatural "listener".
b) Mathematics is a self-referential processing system and falsifies itself. Something is mathematically allowed or it is mathematically restricted. No dispute is allowed.
c) It provides a clear concept of a hierarchy of fundamental orders in the transmission of causal information, which allows the self-formation and evolution of complex patterns without the need for supernatural miracles.

 

[Write4U]

Mathematics describes the physical forces.

Universal mathematics dictate the function of the physical forces.

Questions; What physical forces are present in Chaos? Are mathematical patterns present in Chaos? Are mathematical patterns instrumental in the formation of forces?

"With a few symbols on a page, you can describe a wealth of physical phenomena."

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/describing-nature-math/

 

[Write4U]

This is nonsensical. It literally says that mathematics describes itself.

Not really, it says that mathematics are self-referential (equations).

When we remove the redundant nonsensical part, what we get is:
Mathematics describes the physical forces.

Therefore these forces are proven to be of a Mathematical nature and not of a Divine nature.

There you go. I have repaired your religion by turning it into science. I imagine this is a good day for you.

Lol,......you are placing mathematics on a par with religion? Where, if at all, do you see similarity in the two abstract concepts of explaining the observed physical expressions and patterns in nature ?

You are really advocating for "irreducible complexity", but as we know physical matter is ultimately reducible to non-physical relative values and quasi-intelligent mathematical functions inherent in the spacetime geometry.

Causal Dynamical Triangulation is a hypothesis of the unfolding and evolving fractal structure of spacetime itself .

Causal dynamical triangulation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Beyond the Standard Model
Simulated Large Hadron Collider CMS particle detector data depicting a Higgs boson produced by colliding protons decaying into hadron jets and electrons

Evidence[show]
Theories[show]
Supersymmetry[show]
Quantum gravity[hide]

Causal dynamical triangulation

(abbreviated as CDT) theorized by Renate Loll, Jan Ambjørn and Jerzy Jurkiewicz, and popularized by Fotini Markopoulou and Lee Smolin, is an approach to quantum gravity that like loop quantum gravity is background independent.

This means that it does not assume any pre-existing arena (dimensional space), but rather attempts to show how the spacetime fabric itself evolves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation

 

[DaveC426913]

Yes it does.
a) mathematics have great predictive value.

More Chinese Room emissions.

Your idea has no predictive value.

You did not invent mathematics, so describing what mathematics can do is a clear indication that you are note even comprehending what you're reading.

The actual creation of Higgs boson is an example of predictive mathematics. No prayer has ever been answered by a supernatural "listener".
b) Mathematics is a self-referential processing system and falsifies itself. Something is mathematically allowed or it is mathematically restricted. No dispute is allowed.
c) It provides a clear concept of a hierarchy of fundamental orders in the transmission of causal information, which allows the self-formation and evolution of complex patterns without the need for supernatural miracles.

Your idea has no predictive value.
A universe that operates the way you say it does is indistinguishable from our universe. Thus no test can be done to falsify your notion, and your notion predicts nothing that can be tested to see if it's true or false.

 

[DaveC426913]

Not really, it says that mathematics are self-referential (equations).

You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

You see buzzwords and use them without understanding them.

You're trolling.

Mathematics describes the physical forces.

Therefore these forces are proven to be of a Mathematical nature and not of a Divine nature.

So If I describe these forces in English, you'll then have to conclude that the forces of the universe prove to be "of an English nature"?

You really don't understand how language works.

Lol,......you are placing mathematics on a par with religion?

No. You are. With your prayers and mantras and an intelligent universe.

 

[Write4U]

You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
You see buzzwords and use them without understanding them.

I do understand the buzz words, that's why I use them.

So If I can describe the motion of particles in English, you'll then have to conclude that the forces of the universe prove to be "of an English nature"? You really don't understand how language works.

Here you are using the buzz words indicating lack of logical argument.

No. You are.

No, I know the difference between "abstract" values and mathematical "physical" functions, and a conscious, motivated mystical creative Being capable of emotions and intent.

All concepts of gods are fatally flawed......All concepts of mathematics are qualified perfection.

 

[Write4U]

So If I can describe the motion of particles in English, you'll then have to conclude that the forces of the universe prove to be "of an English nature"?

No, it proves that they are "of a Universal nature". The motion of particles can be described in any language.
OTOH, the mathematical language is that Universal language which is an agreed upon a standardized symbolic language. Mathematics is the ONLY language that fits the requirements without assuming any unknowns.

Cosmologists from all over the world proclaim that they are "discovering" the mathematical nature of the Universal cosmology. The Great Math Mystery is not really a mystery at all.
OTOH, the God Mystery is an unsolvable mystery of the highest order.
No has ever discovered evidence of God!

Where is the controversy?

 

[DaveC426913]

Here you are using the buzz words indicating lack of logical argument.

OK, so no, you don't know what they are, since there are no buzzwords in that sentence.

Where is the controversy?

Controversy? There is none.

You have an idea. You're allowed to have ideas. But flinging around scientific terms like they have any validity in your idea doesn't make it less nonsense.

Anyway, I'm all out of troll-food for today. You'll have to go hungry.

Repeat your prayers some more for me please.

 

[Write4U]

Repeat your prayers some more for me please.

Well, prayers don't work in my world....mathematics do.

 

[Write4U]

In reference to "Viruses; Life or no-life?

Microtubules in Viral Replication and Transport

Abstract,

Viruses use and subvert host cell mechanisms to support their replication and spread between cells, tissues and organisms. Microtubules and associated motor proteins play important roles in these processes in animal systems, and may also play a role in plants.

Although transport processes in plants are mostly actin based, studies, in particular with Tobacco mosaic virus (TMV) and its movement protein (MP), indicate direct or indirect roles of microtubules in the cell-to-cell spread of infection.

Detailed observations suggest that microtubules participate in the cortical anchorage of viral replication complexes, in guiding their trafficking along the endoplasmic reticulum (ER)/actin network, and also in developing the complexes into virus factories.

Microtubules also play a role in the plant-to-plant transmission of Cauliflower mosaic virus (CaMV) by assisting in the development of specific virus-induced inclusions that facilitate viral uptake by aphids. The involvement of microtubules in the formation of virus factories and of other virus-induced inclusions suggests the existence of aggresomal pathways by which plant cells recruit membranes and proteins into localized macromolecular assemblies.

Although studies related to the involvement of microtubules in the interaction of viruses with plants focus on specific virus models, a number of observations with other virus species suggest that microtubules may have a widespread role in viral pathogenesis.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23379770/

 

[Write4U]

This is another visualization by Drew Berry

 

[Write4U]

Artificial consciousness is already performing on a quest of self-improvement and organizational refinement.

 

[exchemist]

 

[Write4U]

That is just plain rude. This is a blatant and purposeful attempt to derail this thread.

You're just a very unpleasant person. Moreover you contribute very little to any of the conversations.

I guess posting on Sciforums is more to relieve your RW frustrations than for contributing to general knowledge.

 

[DaveC426913]

QUOTE="Write4U, post: 3636319, member: 261885"]That is just plain rude. This is a blatant and purposeful attempt to derail this thread.
[/QUOTE]
Before you go pointing that finger anywhere else, look at the thread title, and then look at your last dozen or so posts.
You took this thread down the rabbit hole long ago.

 

[Write4U]

A universe that operates the way you say it does is indistinguishable from our universe. Thus no test can be done to falsify your notion, and your notion predicts nothing that can be tested to see if it's true or false.

What kind of argument is that? So, you allow religions to make their claims? After all the notion of a God is indistinguishable from all other scientific hypotheses.
Let's pray instead of doing the maths. After all, it makes no difference, no?

The difference is that if "my notion" is correct, it completely changes the fundamental concept of the properties and potentials of the universe and by extension how science must be applied to understand reality and consciousness.

 

[DaveC426913]

What kind of argument is that?

A scientific one. This is a science forum.

This subforum is about theories. Yours is not a theory, since - as I just pointed out - it is unfalsifiable.

Take this to Free Thoughts, and stay on topic.

 

[DaveC426913]

The difference is that if "my notion" is correct, it completely changes the fundamental concept of the properties and potentials of the universe and by extension how science must be applied to understand reality and consciousness.

This thread is about Microtubules

As always, you spam your own thread with your intelligent universe religion.

Don't be a hypocrite by accusing someone else of dragging it off-topic.