Is Buddhism a Failure?

Sure, the natives in Pakistan don't live on reservations. Do you think the Taliban should emulate the Canadians and impose their way of life forcefully on the inhabitants?
 
Tyler said:
Sam:
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yeah, but when Buddhism is no longer the goal of Buddhists its a failure.

It would be like Jews worshipping a pantheon of gods and calling themselves monotheists [the Christians have a variation on the theme]
 
Tyler said:
And what of the secularists who supported the Iraq war? Or the attack in Panama? Or the multitude of secular socialist-sympathizers who wrote praise-filled articles of the CCCP and Red China for decades? It's foolish to pretend that secular humanism hasn't had it's own catastrophes, just like every other system in human history.
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At one in ten Americans, I would consider them a footnote.
 
S.A.M. said:
yeah, but when Buddhism is no longer the goal of Buddhists its a failure.

It would be like Jews worshipping a pantheon of gods and calling themselves monotheists [the Christians have a variation on the theme]
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Or like the religion of peace waging jihad?
 
I don't see any problem with having reservations where people - of any race - can choose to live a different way of life. If they would like to leave that reservation then they may.

No, the Taliban should not do what Canadians did 200 years ago.
 
peace != subjugation

All law abiding societies have a police force.

Tyler said:
I don't see any problem with having reservations where people - of any race - can choose to live a different way of life. If they would like to leave that reservation then they may.

No, the Taliban should not do what Canadians did 200 years ago.
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Did the Inuit choose to be transported north?:rolleyes:

The Afghans, in their 5000 year history, have never "spread" and have fought only in self defence. If they change course now, it will be a deviation from their norm.
 
At one in ten Americans, I would consider them a footnote.
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And of all the Soviet leaders? They didn't act in the name of atheism, but many of them were certainly atheists. There's no benefit to denying history.

But I also think you're right in one place Sam is wrong. When one calls oneself "peaceful" and then picks up a gun to fire, there's some serious fucking around with the word "peaceful" going on.
 
You too would pick up a gun if you were under attack. I recall you felt obliged to do it on behalf of your community.
 
Tyler said:
And of all the Soviet leaders? They didn't act in the name of atheism, but many of them were certainly atheists. There's no benefit to denying history.

But I also think you're right in one place Sam is wrong. When one calls oneself "peaceful" and then picks up a gun to fire, there's some serious fucking around with the word "peaceful" going on.
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Well, no, it's that no one trustworthy would describe Stalin as as secular humanist. Secular, sure. Humanist? Nah.
 
Did the Inuit choose to be transported north?
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No? But that's not exactly the issue at hand here, is it? Canada's not perfect. I think it's still better than Pakistan. You're free to disagree and go move to Pakistan.

I honestly have not much sympathy for the current state of the native people's. Countries change, systems change, the world moves forward. Such has always been the way in every place. If you want to be a success, then be a success. If you want to live in the way of the ancients, then live in the way of the ancients. If you want to be a drunken bum, then be a drunken bum. But don't blame me for something some other white person's great great grandfather did to your great great grandfather. My people were busy being shot in Russia and Germany, not in Canada beating up on your relatives.

I'm a firm believer in an individuals responsibility to herself and her community. If someone gives up trying because of other people's success, I have little sympathy. All people in a state of poverty ought to be given all the tools necessary to pull themselves out of poverty. That doesn't mean directly giving them money; that system fails every time. It means better schools, better access to modern technology and the ability to learn the skills needed to excel. If after all that is provided to a person they choose to live in the mountains with the bears and wild food, then all the power to them! If after all that is provided to a person they choose to be drunks, drug addicts and rapists, then so be it.

The white man invaded the land and made cities. If a native Canadian would like to spend his life preaching about this evil and demanding Canadians destroy all their buildings, cities and cars, then that's their right. But I'll wager dollars to doughnuts it ain't gonna happen any time soon. So it's probably best to just move on.
 
You too would pick up a gun if you were under attack. I recall you felt obliged to do it on behalf of your community.
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And I never claimed to be a peaceful human being, let alone a representative of a peaceful religion.
 
But don't blame me for something some other white person's great great grandfather did to your great great grandfather.
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Are you certain you're Jewish? :p

The white man invaded the land and made cities. If a native Canadian would like to spend his life preaching about this evil and demanding Canadians destroy all their buildings, cities and cars, then that's their right. But I'll wager dollars to doughnuts it ain't gonna happen any time soon. So it's probably best to just move on.
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I agree, they should just kill the colonials and take back their lands.
 
Are you certain you're Jewish?
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Ha! I'm also firmly against payments to the sons and daughters of Holocaust victims. The victims themselves, I understand. But after one or two generations the culture of victimhood has to be let go.
I agree, they should just kill the colonials and take back their lands.
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And now you understand why Muslims don't always come off as representatives of peace.
 
Tyler said:
Ha! I'm also firmly against payments to the sons and daughters of Holocaust victims. The victims themselves, I understand. But after one or two generations the culture of victimhood has to be let go.

And now you understand why Muslims don't always come off as representatives of peace.
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I think everyone has the right not to be oppressed. And to fight back.

After all it took us almost 200 years to get rid of the British. Otherwise we would be the Inuit too.

Was it justified? Hell yeah, nothing beats self determination.
 
I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest the natives are oppressed today. They have no legal barriers separating them from us except that they get some benefits and handouts (which, I think, often do more harm than good). Yes, the way of life of their people 200 years ago is destroyed. So is the way of life of my people 200 years ago.
 
Moreover - I don't agree that every instance of oppression ought to lead to violent revolution. I think an ounce of pragmatism might be worth considering.

1) they would lose
2) there are many channels open in our country to settling grievances of this nature that have been successfully used before and don't involve bloodshed
 
"Your people" got a state out of it, as I recall. The Inuit have a right to choose their way of life. Colonial enterprises always act like they are doing everyone a big favour by imposing their way of life on others.

1. thats what the British thought too, hence the massacre of 1857
2. yup, but a revolution even a legal one, would get them their state.
 
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