Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
You can still answer my post SAM.
Is Buddhism a Failure?
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
SAM: Apparently the desire to be free of suffering overcomes the desire to live with it with every single time.
Again in what Buddhist country do they practise the desire to free themselves of suffering? Buddhists lead normal lives as far as I can tell so far, work, marriage, children, shopping, love, divorce, t.v, music, dancing. They are not sitting prostate eating only a bowl of vegetables and rice.
This is becoming tedious. Its only in the West do I hear of Buddhism in terms of 'ending' suffering as opposed to an understanding as suffering being part of the flux of all nature ie; birth, youth, health, sickness, old age and death. Happiness and misery, fortune and misfortune. It teaches that all these things should be taken in stride as existence is precarious and not limited to a single state of being.
Sure, because the system of Buddhism has failed. No one is following the x-fold path to nirvana. They've reverted to their pre-Buddhist societies, where a few flowers and a visit to the temple takes care of their spiritual well being.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
No SAM living a modern life doesn't make them any less Buddhist. I suggest you try visiting a buddhist nation but still you didn't answer this:
No SAM the Junta is a purely militaristic state that hasn't the least bit of Buddhist doctrine it it. What you seem not to notice is that the Tibetans still revere their leaders and their traditions and that hasnt been supplanted with anything even as the Chinese took the region. Where is this supplanted system elsewhere SAM? In democratic Thailand and Cambodia? Communist China, Vietnam and Lao (which developed from Western threats) What about democratic S. Korea and Taiwan? Bhutan up until recently had an absolute monarchy but has now opened up to other political parties and expects parlimentary elections. Now under ALL these diverse POLITICAL systems Buddhism is STILL practised. What you are describing is rubbish, has no connection to reality.
No SAM the Junta is a purely militaristic state that hasn't the least bit of Buddhist doctrine it it. What you seem not to notice is that the Tibetans still revere their leaders and their traditions and that hasnt been supplanted with anything even as the Chinese took the region. Where is this supplanted system elsewhere SAM? In democratic Thailand and Cambodia? Communist China, Vietnam and Lao (which developed from Western threats) What about democratic S. Korea and Taiwan? Bhutan up until recently had an absolute monarchy but has now opened up to other political parties and expects parlimentary elections. Now under ALL these diverse POLITICAL systems Buddhism is STILL practised. What you are describing is rubbish, has no connection to reality.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Well it depends on the strain of Buddhism (mahayana, theravada), practise is based on their traditional legacy of rituals and rights during holidays, during times of trouble or rights of passage, regular visits to the temple where they get blessings from the monks, daily acknowledgment of Buddha by offering food to roaming monks who make daily morning visits, prayer and honoring the Buddha through the lighting of incense and food offerings at spirit houses which are in every work and home establishment, honoring dead relatives etc, observing the basic tenets of the religion in daily life and its interpretation differs as is usual in any tradition but basically means non-destruction of life, refrain from stealing, intoxicants, wanton sexual behaviour etc.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
No its not all its about but its how it shows itself in everyday life for the average family. What is christianity for the average christian but church on sunday and observing holy holidays and adhering to the basic commandments as best they can. The difference between you and I is that I am an athiest so I don't feel the need to judge how sacred a religion is whether occidental or non-occidental. The difference between occidental and non-occidental traditions is that occidental traditions are judgemental by nature and breeds a common disrespect for other traditions so you have christian vs. muslim, jew vs christian, jew vs muslim, god vs man, man vs. nature, nature vs. god etc. Its a tradition of schisms. But besides all that I want to know why you seem to have abandoned your assertion which was this:
"No I look at the similarities of the monk bhikshu system in all places, from Tibet, to Burma [where the junta has supplanted the monks] to Nepal to Sri Lanka to even Dharamsala where the erstwhile Lama has estabished his mini serfdom and conclude that the system does not work."
And why you won't you answer this which was my response:
No SAM the Junta is a purely militaristic state that hasn't the least bit of Buddhist doctrine it it. What you seem not to notice is that the Tibetans still revere their leaders and their traditions and that hasnt been supplanted with anything even as the Chinese took the region. Where is this supplanted system elsewhere SAM? In democratic Thailand and Cambodia? Communist China, Vietnam and Lao (which developed from Western threats) What about democratic S. Korea and Taiwan? Bhutan up until recently had an absolute monarchy but has now opened up to other political parties and expects parlimentary elections. Now under ALL these diverse POLITICAL systems Buddhism is STILL practised. What you are describing is rubbish, has no connection to reality.
"No I look at the similarities of the monk bhikshu system in all places, from Tibet, to Burma [where the junta has supplanted the monks] to Nepal to Sri Lanka to even Dharamsala where the erstwhile Lama has estabished his mini serfdom and conclude that the system does not work."
And why you won't you answer this which was my response:
No SAM the Junta is a purely militaristic state that hasn't the least bit of Buddhist doctrine it it. What you seem not to notice is that the Tibetans still revere their leaders and their traditions and that hasnt been supplanted with anything even as the Chinese took the region. Where is this supplanted system elsewhere SAM? In democratic Thailand and Cambodia? Communist China, Vietnam and Lao (which developed from Western threats) What about democratic S. Korea and Taiwan? Bhutan up until recently had an absolute monarchy but has now opened up to other political parties and expects parlimentary elections. Now under ALL these diverse POLITICAL systems Buddhism is STILL practised. What you are describing is rubbish, has no connection to reality.
I see the junta as an extension of the feudal system that Buddhism created in other societies, I see the same in the Samurai system of Japan, the warrior monks of Korea, the landlord monks of Tibet, the soldier monks of Sri Lanka, the Buddhist Pol Pot, etc.
The system just devolves into feudalism no matter what the political system.
I'm happy that the Cambodians and Vietnamese have sublimated it into their local traditions. But they are not practising Buddhism. They are actually practising Hinduism with the Buddha avatar.
The system just devolves into feudalism no matter what the political system.
I'm happy that the Cambodians and Vietnamese have sublimated it into their local traditions. But they are not practising Buddhism. They are actually practising Hinduism with the Buddha avatar.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
And yet S. Korea and Thailand and Taiwan are buddhist and democratic, N. korea is dictatorship, japan is a democracy, Cambodia despite its history is a democracy, Vietnam and lao is communist. hardly 'feudal' at all.
Pol Pot was a communist who renounced his religion which is why monks were also killed during the KR and all buddhist practise outlawed
And despite your ignorance Buddhism flourishes in both Cambodia and Vietnam not to mention Lao where monks can be seen walking the streets everyday and people practise their tradition everyday.
You confuse politics and religion, politics and society, make assertions which are obviously not true in present times. If what you said were true then Buddhism wouldn't exist under any of those systems which are so diverse but they do anyway.
Pol Pot was a communist who renounced his religion which is why monks were also killed during the KR and all buddhist practise outlawed
And despite your ignorance Buddhism flourishes in both Cambodia and Vietnam not to mention Lao where monks can be seen walking the streets everyday and people practise their tradition everyday.
You confuse politics and religion, politics and society, make assertions which are obviously not true in present times. If what you said were true then Buddhism wouldn't exist under any of those systems which are so diverse but they do anyway.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Sam: I'm happy that the Cambodians and Vietnamese have sublimated it into their local traditions. But they are not practising Buddhism. They are actually practising Hinduism with the Buddha avatar.
ALL buddhism is a breakaway religion derived from hinduism just as christianity and islam are derived from judaism ergo their similarity. Angkor was a hindu temple but what you see today in cambodia is theravada buddhism
ALL buddhism is a breakaway religion derived from hinduism just as christianity and islam are derived from judaism ergo their similarity. Angkor was a hindu temple but what you see today in cambodia is theravada buddhism
MOD NOTE:
This thread was created from 31 off topic posts in the Shia/Sunni thread. I was going to just delete them, but it seemed a reasonable discussion was going on so I created this new thread should any of the posters wish to pursue this topic.
This thread was created from 31 off topic posts in the Shia/Sunni thread. I was going to just delete them, but it seemed a reasonable discussion was going on so I created this new thread should any of the posters wish to pursue this topic.
Human rights are a secularist idea, sammy.
You could describe all religions that way. Using your definition of a failed system, Islam is an utterly failed religion.
They murder children:
Much of the Middle East is a bombed out shithole:
If murdering children and living in a bombed out shithole sounds like a good time, then maybe Islam is the religion for you!
Ah yes, scripture:
If a man discovers on his wedding night that his bride is not a virgin, he must stone her to death on her father's doorstep.
Deuteronomy 22:13-21
Stop getting in the way of imperialists, and maybe your religion would fail less.
Yeah, virginity used to be considered valuable. Now its no big deal.
People adapt to the morals of the time.
Some people still think telling a girl to get laid is an intellectual argument.
The religion has survived many odds, it will survive the imperialists.