Is Buddhism a Failure?

[Enmos]

The overall purpose of social institutions is to strengthen social structure. So the relevance of any social institution would be based on its contribution to the maintenance of social stability and whether its absence would lead to a deterioration of that structure.

So how does this help in establishing the success of a religion ?

 

[S.A.M.]

Individuals working as a group and with common goals have a greater probability of success than individuals working alone and holding independent opinions.

 

[Enmos]

Individuals working as a group and with common goals have a greater probability of success than individuals working alone and holding independent opinions.

Sure, but how is that an answer to my question ?

 

[S.A.M.]

I'm not going to spoonfeed you Enmos, you really need to think a little by yourself. :bugeye:

Religion builds group dynamics and ensures social stability, which contributes to its own continued existence and survival. If its irrelevant to the society, it will not persist.

 

[Enmos]

I'm not going to spoonfeed you Enmos, you really need to think a little by yourself. :bugeye:

I'm interested in your explanation. But you don't seem to be very forthcoming with that..

 

[S.A.M.]

Thats because it seems very self explanatory to me. Anyone who knows what a social institution is, usually knows how it works without needing a blow by blow explanation of the self evident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_institution

 

[Enmos]

Religion builds group dynamics and ensures social stability, which contributes to its own continued existence and survival.

So do secular institutions. But that's beside the point.
I asked you how to measure a religions success. All you have come up with so far is that religion in general is successful. I'm not asking about that.
I want to know how you measure the success of religions in relation to each other.

For example:
If you wanted to make a top list of the most successful religions, the first being the most successful and the last being least successful, how would you go about doing that ?

If its irrelevant to the society, it will not persist.

Same question here. How do you measure if something is relevant to society ?
Apparently we are using some different definitions because it seems to me that a lot of things are persisting that don't have any relevance to society at all.

 

[S.A.M.]

If you wanted to make a top list of the most successful religions, the first being the most successful and the last being least successful, how would you go about doing that ?

See which has remained relevant throughout its history for the majority of its people and continues to survive to this day. Obviously, if its obsolete, at some point in its history, it became irrelevant.

 

[Enmos]

See which has remained relevant throughout its history for the majority of its people and continues to survive to this day. Obviously, if its obsolete, at some point in its history, it became irrelevant.

Perhaps I'm a bit dumb, but how would you go about doing that ? What factors will you be looking at ?

 

[S.A.M.]

How it bolsters other social institutions [marriage, family, education, economy, government] and how it ensures stability and cohesiveness. In some cases, e.g. Judaism it does not even need a nation state to have discourses on politics or legal arguments.

 

[Enmos]

How it bolsters other social institutions [marriage, family, education, economy, government] and how it ensures stability and cohesiveness. In some cases, e.g. Judaism it does not even need a nation state to have discourses on politics or legal arguments.

Isn't all that for a large part tied to it's amount of followers, and not to the religions original purpose ?

 

[S.A.M.]

Amount of followers does not mean anything if the religion is irrelevant to social stability. The purpose of religion is to define a way of life.

 

[Enmos]

Amount of followers does not mean anything if the religion is irrelevant to social stability.

If the majority of people in a country are of a particular belief how can it not be relevant to society ? The fact that they are the majority religionwise simply makes it relevant.

The purpose of religion is to define a way of life.

I thought it was to worship God and live your life as he tells you to..

 

[S.A.M.]

If the majority of people in a country are of a particular belief how can it not be relevant to society ? The fact that they are the majority religionwise simply makes it relevant.

Not necessarily. e.g. Communists in the Soviet Union, Buddhists in China, Christianity in the US.

I thought it was to worship God and live your life as he tells you to..

That too. But you can be a follower of a religion and live in a place where the society is not based on the rules of your religion.

 

[Enmos]

Not necessarily. e.g. Communists in the Soviet Union, Buddhists in China, Christianity in the US.

Uhm those are examples that support my point.

That too. But you can be a follower of a religion and live in a place where the society is not based on the rules of your religion.

How does that change the original purpose of the religion ?

 

[Tyler]

But you can be a follower of a religion and live in a place where the society is not based on the rules of your religion.

Do you support the implementation of Sharia law?

 

[swarm]

Thats probably why their suicide levels are higher. They transcend everything, including life.

Try again:

Followers of religions that strongly prohibit suicide, like Christianity and Islam, have a higher suicide rate than those religions which have no strong prohibition (e.g. Buddhism and Hinduism.)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sui_fact.htm

 

[S.A.M.]

Uhm those are examples that support my point.

Not unless you think atheism = communism, Buddhism = communism or secularism = christianity.

How does that change the original purpose of the religion ?

If you're a Buddhist who lives as a landlord and has serfs, thats some serious cognitive dissonance

Do you support the implementation of Sharia law?

Sure, doesn't everyone?

What is the shura principle in Islam? ... It is predicated on three basic precepts. First, that all persons in any given society are equal in human and civil rights. Second, that public issues are best decided by majority view. And third, that the three other principles of justice, equality and human dignity, which constitute Islam's moral core, ... are best realized, in personal as well as public life, under shura governance

http://www.alhewar.com/SadekShura.htm

 

[Enmos]

Not unless you think atheism = communism, Buddhism = communism or secularism = christianity.

I'm sorry ?

If you're a Buddhist who lives as a landlord and has serfs, thats some serious cognitive dissonance

So ?


Edit: Could you please put the following religions in order of successfulness and tell me what methods you used ?

- Christianity
- Islam
- Hinduism
- Buddhism
- Judaism​

 

[S.A.M.]

Try again:

Followers of religions that strongly prohibit suicide, like Christianity and Islam, have a higher suicide rate than those religions which have no strong prohibition (e.g. Buddhism and Hinduism.)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sui_fact.htm

Thats a really weird statistic. Suicide rates are highest in the communist countries interspersed with Japan, China, Hong Kong etc. Its where suicide is not a "sin" that its more easily accepted and hence more widely practised.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate