Is Buddhism a Failure?
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
Canada has a history of population transfer and did take away the children of disenfranchised minorities to "assimilate" them. Native minorities in Canada have 48 times the suicide rate of the westernised. I'm quite sure that minorities in Pakistan are not overwhelmingly adopting suicide as the only way out.
And just FYI, I'm not a fan of Pakistan, it was a stupid idea to partition the country.
And just FYI, I'm not a fan of Pakistan, it was a stupid idea to partition the country.
Christianity doesn't have the market cornered on hypocrisy.
"The painter claimed that on religious festivals, the brothels and dance halls in his neighborhood overflow with customers.
“They come from the northern areas with their turbans,” Iqbal said, laughing. “All coming to this area. They’re not going to the mosque … but to the brothels!”
http://eideard.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/the-brothels-of-pakistan-profit-from-religious-hypocrites/
What does Israel have to do with Judaism? They're atheists, remember?
yeah yeah, only Islam is the true shyt,huh?
give the trolling a rest will ya!
RE: OP
Is Buddhism a Failure?
Maybe? I don't really know what "Buddhism" is but I'd say there are a lot of Chinese, Thai, Japanese, Koreans who call themselves "Buddhists" and their societies have functioned for 1000s of years.
Anyway, didn't we have this exact same argument like a year or two ago? 200 years ago slave owners used that exact sort of argument. "There's never been a society without slavery blah blah blah...." and yet here we are.
200 years ago Kings/Sultans/Emperors/Caliphs used that exact sort of argument. "There's never been a society without a King blah blah blah...." and yet here we are.
etc...
So, the argument is fundamentally flawed.
Anyway, Buddhism could work pretty damn well in a multicultureal society, one where some people worship many Gods, some people worship goddesses, some people worship Satan, some people worship Aliens, some people are atheist.
1) There's a meditative Buddhism for people so inclined - this has been scientifically shown to promote neurogenesis in the limbic system, physically altering the brain in such a manner so as to maintain well-being (for a small minority of people in society)
2) Then there's the mystical mumbo jumbo that most people need to get by in life including a form of afterlife to help alleviate the fear of death and to deal with those that have died (this will do for most people)
3) It can accommodate free thinkers and so allows the people who truly move this world forward to do so. (small minority of people)
4) It doesn't have any of the drawbacks of monotheism and indeed it seems that you can even worship a single god and still fit well within a Buddhist society - theoretically. (will make a good transition religion as we make up something better)
Sure, like all social endeavors it isn't going to be perfect, but, it's a hell of a lot better than most anything else FOR MODERN societies that are MULTICULTURAL.
M
PS: As Buddha was an Indian of such brilliance and forethought it's sad you feel the need to denigrate such a wonderful character in your culture historical myth.
I'm not Buddhist and I will never be a Buddhist, but, I think Buddhism is coming into it's own. It needs some work but I'd say this Indian was 2500 ahead of his time.
Is Buddhism a Failure?
Maybe? I don't really know what "Buddhism" is but I'd say there are a lot of Chinese, Thai, Japanese, Koreans who call themselves "Buddhists" and their societies have functioned for 1000s of years.
Anyway, didn't we have this exact same argument like a year or two ago? 200 years ago slave owners used that exact sort of argument. "There's never been a society without slavery blah blah blah...." and yet here we are.
200 years ago Kings/Sultans/Emperors/Caliphs used that exact sort of argument. "There's never been a society without a King blah blah blah...." and yet here we are.
etc...
So, the argument is fundamentally flawed.
Anyway, Buddhism could work pretty damn well in a multicultureal society, one where some people worship many Gods, some people worship goddesses, some people worship Satan, some people worship Aliens, some people are atheist.
1) There's a meditative Buddhism for people so inclined - this has been scientifically shown to promote neurogenesis in the limbic system, physically altering the brain in such a manner so as to maintain well-being (for a small minority of people in society)
2) Then there's the mystical mumbo jumbo that most people need to get by in life including a form of afterlife to help alleviate the fear of death and to deal with those that have died (this will do for most people)
3) It can accommodate free thinkers and so allows the people who truly move this world forward to do so. (small minority of people)
4) It doesn't have any of the drawbacks of monotheism and indeed it seems that you can even worship a single god and still fit well within a Buddhist society - theoretically. (will make a good transition religion as we make up something better)
Sure, like all social endeavors it isn't going to be perfect, but, it's a hell of a lot better than most anything else FOR MODERN societies that are MULTICULTURAL.
M
PS: As Buddha was an Indian of such brilliance and forethought it's sad you feel the need to denigrate such a wonderful character in your culture historical myth.
I'm not Buddhist and I will never be a Buddhist, but, I think Buddhism is coming into it's own. It needs some work but I'd say this Indian was 2500 ahead of his time.
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
In Pakistan, brothels and dirty magazines, movies are officially banned. A standard the West should emulate to prevent perversion of society. The government carries out raids on these places if they are alerted to them. Newspapers regularly discuss these raids in detail. You can look it up for yourself. Recently, several Chinese owned massage parlor chains were raided and closed, due to such illegal activity. Furthermore, it may be done in secret, there are sinners in all societies, but the fact remains it is not open and if the authorities are made aware, then they usually arrest the people involved, in some cases execute them.
As far as your lack of knowledge of Pakistan is concerned, golden domes are representative of Shia mosques in Iraq and Iran, not Shia/Sunni mosques in Pakistan. The Sikhs also have golden domes, but they are a minority community in Pakistan.
The Ahmadiyya laws you refer to were the result of Ahmadiyya missionaries, posing as Muslims, and attempting to deceive Sunni/Shia mosque goers (in Pakistan, many mosques are attended by both Sunni and Shias) especially youngsters to convert them. This obviously was met with great anger in the Muslim community, therefore Ahmadiyyas are banned to prostelyze in Muslim masajid, under the cover of pretending to be Muslims. Furthermore, they are not allowed to distribute their material outside these masajid, or inside. It is still done by some of their missionaries, but it is illegal. That's the crux of the argument.
SAM, yes I have several friends who have lived in Israel. One of them an Orthodox Mizrahi Jew who was so shocked at the affairs of the so-called 'Judaic' state of Israel that he came back as he couldn't stand it. Apparently, this is quite common. Until the Messiah comes fro the Jews, Jews aren't even allowed in their religion to establish a state in the Holy Land, furthermore especially not through genocide and oppression.
As far as your lack of knowledge of Pakistan is concerned, golden domes are representative of Shia mosques in Iraq and Iran, not Shia/Sunni mosques in Pakistan. The Sikhs also have golden domes, but they are a minority community in Pakistan.
The Ahmadiyya laws you refer to were the result of Ahmadiyya missionaries, posing as Muslims, and attempting to deceive Sunni/Shia mosque goers (in Pakistan, many mosques are attended by both Sunni and Shias) especially youngsters to convert them. This obviously was met with great anger in the Muslim community, therefore Ahmadiyyas are banned to prostelyze in Muslim masajid, under the cover of pretending to be Muslims. Furthermore, they are not allowed to distribute their material outside these masajid, or inside. It is still done by some of their missionaries, but it is illegal. That's the crux of the argument.
SAM, yes I have several friends who have lived in Israel. One of them an Orthodox Mizrahi Jew who was so shocked at the affairs of the so-called 'Judaic' state of Israel that he came back as he couldn't stand it. Apparently, this is quite common. Until the Messiah comes fro the Jews, Jews aren't even allowed in their religion to establish a state in the Holy Land, furthermore especially not through genocide and oppression.
All religions are failures as religions. Religion is a failure.
Good. Buddhism should change as it gains in understanding and tool set based on keeping what works and shedding needless superstitions.
Further, Buddhism has no business in politics and is not any better than any other theocracy, aka abysmal.
They're banned in China, too. But if I walk 20 meters outside my door right now I'll see 6 hookers, one brothel and a street-side vendor selling porn.
Same in China. But who do you think uses the brothels most?
Same in China.
You'll have to excuse my cynicism. I've lived in a nation with much tighter rules, much stronger government control and much more weak-willed people. I'm no longer going to believe that a nation has less porn and sex just because the government (or people) like to say so. Officially, China has no pre-marital pregnancies. Of course, that's total horseshit. And I'm not going to believe Pakistan is any different when numerous reports suggest otherwise and it seems to be just a point of pride for the gov't and people.
Oh, now I understand. "Pakistan curtails religious freedom...but it's done to protect Islam...therefore it's not really restrictions on religious freedom!"
It is bizarre how religious Jews seem to overlook this fact. I've never understood it, myself.
So, what blinded you to not reading my post and the link provided which makes your statement a lie?
Actually they are also banned in the US. Officially.
Visa requirements ban anyone who come to the US with the intent to prostitute themselves [or others, presumably]
Visa requirements ban anyone who come to the US with the intent to prostitute themselves [or others, presumably]
http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/ineligibilities/ineligibilities_1364.html
That's only prostitute immigration that is banned.
Actual prostitution is perfectly legal in certain (small) parts of the US.
The Federal government lacks the constitutional authority to ban prostitution itself, inside US states.
Nevada and Rhode Island, mainly.
Although prostitution has been quietly decriminalized almost everywhere else in the past couple of decades. Basically, the cops only go after street prostitution, since this is what the electorate actually worries about. If it's kept behind closed doors, they ignore it. You can pick up the free weekly paper in any major US city and find pages and pages of advertisements for prostitutes.
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
Naturally, with little knowledge of Pakistan in specific, and Muslim countries in general. I do not expect that someone would understand, especially not people who have a vested interest in misrepresenting and demonizing Islam.
When you go to Pakistan, then please get back to me on this subject. Otherwise your points are mere conjecture. People love to talk about issues in which they have zero knowledge.
As for religious freedom, the Eastern countries have different definitions of religious freedom then the West, but I am sure if Jews or Atheists enter churches in the West for the sole purpose of bringing people away from Christianity, they can be forced to leave and banned from attending this place of worship. If the population has an issue, it is consulted with all religious parties of the country, minorities and the majority, and a fair consensus is reached. None that the same way Muslims cannot enter churches with the intent purpose to preach their religion in Pakistan, it works in all circumstances. The law is designed to prevent strife between different religious communities, the kind of strife witnessed in some areas of India by Hindu extremists against Muslims and Christians for example.
When you go to Pakistan, then please get back to me on this subject. Otherwise your points are mere conjecture. People love to talk about issues in which they have zero knowledge.
As for religious freedom, the Eastern countries have different definitions of religious freedom then the West, but I am sure if Jews or Atheists enter churches in the West for the sole purpose of bringing people away from Christianity, they can be forced to leave and banned from attending this place of worship. If the population has an issue, it is consulted with all religious parties of the country, minorities and the majority, and a fair consensus is reached. None that the same way Muslims cannot enter churches with the intent purpose to preach their religion in Pakistan, it works in all circumstances. The law is designed to prevent strife between different religious communities, the kind of strife witnessed in some areas of India by Hindu extremists against Muslims and Christians for example.
Prostitution in muslim countries is fun. First you get married, then you have your fun, then you get divorced. They have a cleric right in the brothel for your convenience.