Is Buddhism a Failure?

[S.A.M.]

The mosques do not make their money by for example, putting poor serfs into debt or as in the case of Japanese warrior monks, burning down other mosques and carrying off the loot. Also being a priest is a job in Islam, you can get fired if you don't do it properly. The job being to lead people in prayers and maintaining the structure as well as providing the community with services, like a madrassa.

Then what's the aim of Christianity of Islam? And why is there so much about sex and marriage in both religions?

There is not so much about sex and marriage. There is a great deal about matters relating to human affairs ranging from family to civil life, social responsibility and the natural world. The aim of Islam is to submit to God.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

As I have already stated, you can cross compare to all previous Buddhist Sangha systems. Whether it was in Burma, Japan, Sri Lanka, India, Nepal, the overwhelming fate of the bhikku system was exploitation of the masses, if not war among the monks themselves.

I don't have any problem with Buddhism as a belief system. As a social system, however, it is a complete failure.

How is it a failure? Its a way of life or an outlook on life not a 'social system'. Why are you saying that Buddhist countries are devolved into fuedalism when they are alive and well under different systems? It kind of negates that one tune you keep singing about Bhikku system which is of Tibet. Bhikku is only relevant to monastic life.

Here is the faulty logic you use:


Europe was christian. Their kings were christian, their system descended into feudalism. Europe descended into feudalism because it was christian.

Well no Europe is not fuedal.

"yes it is they had a feudal system in France."

 

[S.A.M.]

Why are you saying that Buddhist countries are devolved into fuedalism when they are alive and well under different systems?

They are alive and well under different systems.

Its like the Dalai Lama recognising that being part of communist China is better for the Tibetans than being under the Lama Buddhism.

They are still Buddhists, but now under an atheist/Chinese capitalist/communist system. So the belief system is okay, but the social order it created sucked big time.

 

[spidergoat]

Buddha never set out to create a system of organizing society, it's a means of personal liberation.

 

[draqon]

Buddha never set out to create a system of organizing society, it's a means of personal liberation.

exactly.

Buddhism is about self-understanding and self-balance, not social recognition.

If anything, Buddhism is the balance of all theism and atheism concepts.

 

[S.A.M.]

He recruited people into a Sangha. Or at least some Buddhas did, its unclear which part of Buddhist doctrine comes from which Buddha

 

[draqon]

He recruited people into a Sangha. Or at least some Buddhas did, its unclear which part of Buddhist doctrine comes from which Buddha

I thought there was only one true Buddha...everything else came later.

Theravada is the origin of it all.

 

[S.A.M.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood#Kinds_of_Buddha

The Pali Cannon was written 600 years after Gautama Buddha

 

[spidergoat]

He recruited people into a Sangha. Or at least some Buddhas did, its unclear which part of Buddhist doctrine comes from which Buddha

A Sangha is like a study group.

 

[draqon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood#Kinds_of_Buddha

cool I didn't know that.

So it is Sammasambuddhas, Paccekabuddhas, Savakabuddhas...

although to me it seems these are just stages of attaining nirvana and becoming true buddha.

 

[S.A.M.]

A Sangha is like a study group.

Its a spiritual community

The Sangha of monks and the Sangha of nuns were originally established by Gautama Buddha in the 5th century BCE, with the goal of preserving the teachings, reinforcing discipline, and serving as an example for the laity.

The key feature of Buddhist monasticism is the adherence to the vinaya which contains an elaborate set of rules of conduct including complete chastity and eating only before noon. Between midday and the next day, a strict life of scripture study, chanting, meditation, and occasional cleaning forms most of the Sangha's duties. Transgression of rules carries penalties ranging from confession to permanent expulsion from the Sangha. The founder of Japanese Tendai sects took the decision to reduce the number of rules down to about 60 (Enkai). In Kamakura Era, many sects (Zen, Pureland and Nichiren) which originated from Tendai sect abolished vinaya entirely. Therefore Japanese Zen, Pureland and Nichiren, are led by priests (or minister) rather than by monks.

The distinction between Sangha and lay persons has always been important and forms the Parisa, Buddhist community. Here, monastics teach and counsel the laity at request while laymen and laywomen offer donations for their future support. This inter-connectedness serves as a marriage and has sustained Buddhism to this day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangha

 

[draqon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood#Kinds_of_Buddha

The Pali Cannon was written 600 years after Gautama Buddha

so did Gautama write anything himself? :bugeye:

 

[S.A.M.]

The vinaya or rules of conduct are attributed to him and were an oral tradition passed down through the monks before they were written. The rest is mostly not known.

 

[spidergoat]

Its a spiritual community

Exactly, a sub-culture within society.

 

[draqon]

The vinaya or rules of conduct are attributed to him and were an oral tradition passed down through the monks before they were written. The rest is mostly not known.

is that Dhammapada?

 

[S.A.M.]

is that Dhammapada?

Not exactly

The Vinaya (a word in Pāli as well as in Sanskrit, with literal meaning 'leading out', 'education', 'discipline') is the regulatory framework for the Buddhist monastic community, or sangha, based in the canonical texts called Vinaya Pitaka. The teachings of the Buddha, or Buddhadharma can be divided into two broad categories: 'Dharma' or doctrine, and 'Vinaya', or discipline. Another term for Buddhism is dharmavinaya.

At the heart of the Vinaya is a set of rules known as Patimokkha (Pāli), or Pratimoksha (Sanskrit). The Vinaya was orally passed down from the Buddha to his disciples. Eventually, numerous different Vinayas arose in Buddhism, based upon geographical or cultural differences and the different Buddhist schools that developed. Three of these are still in use.

According to tradition, the Dhammapada's verses were spoken by the Buddha on various occasions.[7] Most verses deal with ethics.[8] The text is part of the Khuddaka Nikaya of the Sutta Pitaka, although over half of the verses exist in other parts of the Pali Canon.[9] A 4th or 5th century CE commentary attributed to Buddhaghosa includes 305 stories which give context to the verses.

Although the Pāli edition is the best-known, a number of other versions are known

 

[draqon]

well what I am trying to say is that only Buddha himself is to trust, not later renditions/interpretations of his words after his death.

 

[spidergoat]

The true teaching of Buddha was never written down.

 

[draqon]

The true teaching of Buddha was never written down.

oh snap...

 

[quadraphonics]

Buddhism is also a failure as a religion. The only surviving Buddhist societies are the ones that don't follow Buddhism.

What an imperialist thing to say.