Übergänger
Registered Member
But there is, though.
Your argument assumes that Logic can tell us something about Reality outside of our minds, and as far as I know we don't know that that is true (true as in absolutely certain about something).
This of course makes the question of the origins of Logic arise, and for now I tend to think that logic comes from and exists only in our minds.
If I ask you, for instance, whence comes that absolute certainty that you feel when you think 2+2=4, you will agree with me that you have an intuitive assurance on that, you will tell me that 2+2=4 is not true because your elementary math teacher told you so, but because you understand the idea of the number 2, the operation + and the sign =, and your mind tells you that those ideas lead inexorably to the idea of 4.
It seems to me that logic is an attribute of our mind and not of anything else. It is a consequence of the way our brains are wired. It is latent from the day you are born, and can be developed and expanded with proper exercising.
When someone is arguing with you and commits a fallacy during his reasoning, it doesn't mean that his or her mind is not bound by logic, all it means is that he made a mistake in his reasoning, and that if you were to show him or her the proper reasoning, his mind would acknowledge this, precisely because it is bound by logic.
Of course, not all operations of the mind are "logical" operations. Experiencing an emotion, for example, or imagining whatever, are not logical operations.
Again, I don't think that logic necessarily can tell us anything about reality outside of the mind.
I'm familiar with an argument of this kind, as a consequence of Gödels Incompleteness Theorem. I don't claim anything near deep familiarity with this theorem, but the simplified explanations I've seen of it are sound to me, so I would agree with you on Omnipotence being a logical impossibility.
Yes, but keep in mind that nothing stops the idea of God from soaring beyond our minds, and if anything, I'd totally expect God to be completely outside the reach of our current understanding, completely outside of our conception of Reality.
I understand it annoys you that the discussion of God then becomes incoherent and the terms meaningless, but perhaps that is nothing but proof of our complete incompetence on "discussing" God and His nature.
Like I said earlier, your mind is bound by logic, not "everything", and maybe only the parts of reality graspable by your mind are bound by logic, precisely because they would need to be logical in order to be understandable.
You are right, a correct term to use would be "untruth"
Religion, and it's foundations are impervious to logic because it's full of unverifiable statements, and unverifiable statements in logic are meaningless, since no useful deduction at all can take place if we don't know the truth value of any proposition in an argument.
Furthermore, even the supposition of the truth value on several religious statements is absurd, since then we would be trying to apply logic to ethereal or supernatural concepts, and logic may or may not apply in this case, we don't know
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Yes they are irrational. Whether they admit it or not enough work has been done to determine that there are several logical contradictions in their beliefs. And yet they believe, perhaps because of what I said before, namely that logic does not need apply to the ethereal realm, whatever that might be.
A studious enough christian will realize, given enough time, that he has a Faith that disregards and disrespects his reason, an irrational Faith, but for the reasons I explained, that doesn't have to be a problem for them.
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