Is Atheism Irrelavent?

[arauca]

Theists are the one who gave the label to "atheists" and then they use that label as a scapegoat.

Non-believers are non-believers due to insufficient evidence of a god. They don't claim to know or prove that which can't be known.

Dark matter isn't something to "believe in". It's (if nothing else) a place holder. Galaxies require more mass than can be seen to stay together as they do. They need more mass to result in the gravity necessary to move as they do. Therefore there must be more mass somewhere. Dark matter is the placeholder for that. No faith required.

The point here is believe . We don't know a dam thing about dark matter . there have been experiments done and no thing was detected . There is a lot of hypothesis on hypothesis, and we are lead to believe there is dark matter and some explanation because it will satisfy the equation . the point we don't have instruments to detect it .. A believer in God have an inside feeling were science can not measure . How different is it for the sake of the argument .

 

[Magical Realist]

A believer in God have an inside feeling were science can not measure .

Same feeling a gambler has that today is goin to be his lucky day at the casino. It's called wishful thinking..

 

[Seattle]

The point here is believe . We don't know a dam thing about dark matter . there have been experiments done and no thing was detected . There is a lot of hypothesis on hypothesis, and we are lead to believe there is dark matter and some explanation because it will satisfy the equation . the point we don't have instruments to detect it .. A believer in God have an inside feeling were science can not measure . How different is it for the sake of the argument .

The difference is that science isn't claiming to know what dark matter is at the moment. It is just deducing that there must be more mass out there to account for the resulting gravity that we can account for.

 

[Bells]

Go on! Inflict your angry attacks on me. I deserve your derision.

You believe that you ascend to the spiritual realm. You don't deserve our derision. Only our pity for your mental illness.

But realize that you don't know me. You don't know how I spend my time.

Wait, you mean you do something else with your time aside from trolling this site and flying to the spiritual realm?

How could you know how I live my life? But I did ask a legitimate question: what does it mean to live one's life to the fullest? Tell me how you live your life to the fullest.

I live without saying 'God did it'..

I suppose if you atheists had your way, you would amend the Bill of Rights to remove freedom of religion. To be quite honest, the founding principles of this country, the United States of America, are quite beautiful with God's Blessing.

Then you have missed a fundamental part of what makes someone an atheist. No one cares what your religious beliefs are, so long as you do not try to convert or ram it down our throats.

No one here is demanding you become an atheist. Far from it. I would imagine most of us are happy you are happy with your ascendance mastery delusions. Because we do not care.

You still don't get it, do you?

You are more obsessed with atheism than atheists are. Look at your posts on this site. You post more about whining about atheism and atheists and science than you do about anything else. Theists post more about atheism than atheists post about atheism or even about theism.

 

[(Q)]

Not all nonreligious, agnostic, or secular fits anywhere near neatly under the blanket heading of atheism.

"The term spirituality lacks a definitive definition, although social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for "the sacred," where "the sacred" is broadly defined as that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality​

Spiritual can mean a wide variety of things, none of which are typically compatible with atheism.

Yet, according to the definition you provided and your lack of explaining it, spirituality is a meaningless word. So, if you say you're spiritual, you're saying that you're meaningless.

Not my god, so do not attempt to poison the well. The operative word there is "or". None of these groups, aside from atheists, are defined as being completely devoid of both divine and religious belief. In fact the only reason to define atheism is to specifically delineate it as different from these others. Where these others do admit some, if small, degree of spirituality, atheism does not.

In other words, they admit a small degree of meaningless. However, they are the same in that they don't accept gods and religions. Do you understand?

No, I do not have any religious affiliation, but nice attempt at poisoning the well.

So, you're a non-believer?

Really? So believers do not routinely espouse the notion that what they do determines what sort of afterlife they can expect? They do not espouse that their god will judge them for their actions? You seem to have confused "what a person does" with "what just happens". We were discussing responsibility for one's own actions, not how these people cope with things that happen to them. Really? They sit down and pray about the mortgage payment being made, instead of going to work every day and writing a check themselves? How on earth do they survive at all?!

That is the hypocrisy of believers, while they state emphatically they pray for things and shift their burdens of responsibility, they are forced by reality to go out and work every day in order to survive. Of course, they'll claim God got them their jobs because they prayed for it, they'll claim God got them to work safely each day because they prayed for that, and if something goes wrong, Satan did it.

 

[(Q)]

Hypocritically : Question again , have Atheist done any research to prove that it does not exist

Why should they waste their time on myths and superstitions? It is the theist who must show their gods exist, they haven't, hence the hypocrisy.

for billions of believers He exist , but for a small minority of atheist , and we should take their word for that God does not exist.

Hilarious, yet you take the word of others that your god does exist. Contradict much.

As an example of the screwed mind of atheist they believe in dark matter , yet they dont have instruments to detect it.

Atheists? Try scientists. Try not to invoke anything scientific considering you have no clue how science works.

 

[Balerion]

So, you're a non-believer?

Oh, he's a believer. He's just one of the many here who don't have the balls to own up to what, exactly, they believe in.

 

[Yazata]

A believer in God have an inside feeling were science can not measure.

Same feeling a gambler has that today is goin to be his lucky day at the casino. It's called wishful thinking..

Hey MR, I seem to recall you arguing in earlier threads that the more spiritualist sort of philosophy of mind's so-called 'qualia' are mental realities that physicalist science can't account for. Hence physicalism is false.

Can't a very similar argument be made with religious experience?

 

[Magical Realist]

Hey MR, I seem to recall you arguing in earlier threads that the more spiritualist sort of philosophy of mind's so-called 'qualia' are mental realities that physicalist science can't account for. Hence physicalism is false.

Can't a very similar argument be made with religious experience?

Physicalism isn't false. It's only half the picture. The other half is the abstract, the mental, the ideal. But note I'm content to call this other half what it is. I refuse to impose a clearly religious concept like God over it and so invest it with personal or conscious properties. Why do we have to cling to this ancient belief and try to reapply it to a world clearly absent of it? Mind is mind. Matter is matter. Nothing supernatural or magical about it.

 

[Yazata]

You believe that you [Mazulu] ascend to the spiritual realm. You don't deserve our derision. Only our pity for your mental illness.

I'm not sure what kind of 'ascension' of Mazulu's that you are talking about.

But people believing that they have had some kind of contact with "spiritual" realities isn't all that uncommon in human history. It might even be the case that a majority of human beings have had those kind of feelings at one time or another.

So it might not be wise to equate religious experience with mental illness.

Wait, you mean you do something else with your time aside from trolling this site and flying to the spiritual realm?

Hey, people have to do something. You're insulting Mazulu by calling him a 'troll' and by suggesting he's insane. I guess that you enjoy doing that.

Then you have missed a fundamental part of what makes someone an atheist. No one cares what your religious beliefs are, so long as you do not try to convert or ram it down our throats.

Probably most atheists do feel that way. I certainly do. I feel no hostility or resentment towards theism and theists. I'm interested in them and like them. (I do strongly dislike certain varieties of theism, such of legalistic Islamism.)

But there's a minority of very loud and aggressive atheists who love nothing more than to attack what they call "religion" (to them, 'religion' seems to mean the Christianity of their youth) and any religious people who dare to show their faces. We see some of that here on Sciforums.

Some of them are probably attitude-filled high-school kids. But I'm guessing that others are people who were hurt by their experience of religion somehow, earlier in their lives. There's lots of resentment and desire for 'pay-back'.

No one here is demanding you become an atheist. Far from it. I would imagine most of us are happy you are happy with your ascendance mastery delusions. Because we do not care.

If people don't care, then why do they post so often, so passionately and so derisively?

You are more obsessed with atheism than atheists are. Look at your posts on this site. You post more about whining about atheism and atheists and science than you do about anything else. Theists post more about atheism than atheists post about atheism or even about theism.

That might be because some of our atheists tried to use him for a punching-bag when he dared to argue with them and defend his beliefs. He's become resentful himself and joined the party. This thread is pretty obviously a rejoinder to the 'God is Irrelevant' thread.

Some of these Sciforums threads seem to be more about board participants' individual psychologies than they are about exploring ideas.

 

[Bells]

I'm not sure what kind of 'ascension' of Mazulu's that you are talking about.

But people believing that they have had some kind of contact with "spiritual" realities isn't all that uncommon in human history. It might even be the case that a majority of human beings have had those kind of feelings at one time or another.

So it might not be wise to equate religious experience with mental illness.

Right..

I was trained by the Ascended Masters through direct psychic messages to be discriminating of what information is coming from a spirit. If a spirit says while your driving, "close your eyes and put your faith in God", don't do it or you will probably kill someone. I remember the night that they tested me to see if I had learned that lesson; and then someone stepped off the curb and I had to slam on my breaks. I didn't close my eyes, I didn't hit the man. I learned the lesson properly.

You classify this is normal and rational behaviour?

Hey, people have to do something. You're insulting Mazulu by calling him a 'troll' and by suggesting he's insane. I guess that you enjoy doing that.

Lets see, Mr Ascended Master has no qualms in sending threatening PM's to people who do not agree with him, and he sees fit to rant and abuse anyone who disagrees with him. This is usually preceded by posting a plethora of childish images. When that doesn't work, the abuse and insults begin.

Probably most atheists do feel that way. I certainly do. I feel no hostility or resentment towards theism and theists. I'm interested in them and like them. (I do strongly dislike certain varieties of theism, such of legalistic Islamism.)

But there's a minority of very loud and aggressive atheists who love nothing more than to attack what they call "religion" (to them, 'religion' seems to mean the Christianity of their youth) and any religious people who dare to show their faces. We see some of that here on Sciforums.

Some of them are probably attitude-filled high-school kids. But I'm guessing that others are people who were hurt by their experience of religion somehow, earlier in their lives. There's lots of resentment and desire for 'pay-back'.

I don't disagree with you. But what has been going on here lately is a 'conform to our religious beliefs or be trolled and insulted'. We have had claim after claim, all baseless and lies, his "physics is dead" was just one of them. The very basis of this thread is a troll and an attempt to goad and flame for a response.

If people don't care, then why do they post so often, so passionately and so derisively?

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying.

We don't care about what he believes in. If he believes he is an ascendance master, more power to him. May he rise to the spirit realm, blah blah. But that does not mean that he has a right to ram it down our collective throats, lie through his teeth, make false claims and then get pissy to the point where he sends threatening and abusive PM's when we don't believe him or take him seriously.

That might be because some of our atheists tried to use him for a punching-bag when he dared to argue with them and defend his beliefs. He's become resentful himself and joined the party. This thread is pretty obviously a rejoinder to the 'God is Irrelevant' thread.

He was resentful and abusive right from the start. He was warned and banned a few times now for his behaviour. Not because of his beliefs.

This thread is based on a false and impossible premise. Atheism is not a religious belief. His OP is baseless.

Some of these Sciforums threads seem to be more about board participants' individual psychologies than they are about exploring ideas.

Tell me, what is your idea about ascending to the spiritual realm and having psychic experiences with spirits and angels?

One of the things that is hilarious is that theists are more obsessed about atheism than atheists are. Just about 3/4 of Mazulu's posts is about the evils of atheism, atheists and science. There is no idea there. There is no new way of thinking. His posts here are usually trolling and flaming posts and when he doesn't get what he wants, he goes on an abusive spray across the forum and via PM, resulting in all the staff having to delete his abuse and banning him. That to me is not a sharing of ideas.

 

[Balerion]

I'm not sure what kind of 'ascension' of Mazulu's that you are talking about.[..]

Then perhaps replying to her post was a mistake.

 

[Mazulu]

You believe that you ascend to the spiritual realm. You don't deserve our derision. Only our pity for your mental illness. Wait, you mean you do something else with your time aside from trolling this site and flying to the spiritual realm? I live without saying 'God did it'.. Then you have missed a fundamental part of what makes someone an atheist. No one cares what your religious beliefs are, so long as you do not try to convert or ram it down our throats. No one here is demanding you become an atheist. Far from it. I would imagine most of us are happy you are happy with your ascendance mastery delusions. Because we do not care. ou still don't get it, do you? You are more obsessed with atheism than atheists are. Look at your posts on this site. You post more about whining about atheism and atheists and science than you do about anything else. Theists post more about atheism than atheists post about atheism or even about theism.

An angry mind is a narrow mind. Anyway, I have to work out before I go to work.

 

[Mazulu]

Right..



You classify this is normal and rational behaviour?



Lets see, Mr Ascended Master has no qualms in sending threatening PM's to people who do not agree with him, and he sees fit to rant and abuse anyone who disagrees with him. This is usually preceded by posting a plethora of childish images. When that doesn't work, the abuse and insults begin.



I don't disagree with you. But what has been going on here lately is a 'conform to our religious beliefs or be trolled and insulted'. We have had claim after claim, all baseless and lies, his "physics is dead" was just one of them. The very basis of this thread is a troll and an attempt to goad and flame for a response.



I don't think you quite understood what I was saying.

We don't care about what he believes in. If he believes he is an ascendance master, more power to him. May he rise to the spirit realm, blah blah. But that does not mean that he has a right to ram it down our collective throats, lie through his teeth, make false claims and then get pissy to the point where he sends threatening and abusive PM's when we don't believe him or take him seriously.


He was resentful and abusive right from the start. He was warned and banned a few times now for his behaviour. Not because of his beliefs.

This thread is based on a false and impossible premise. Atheism is not a religious belief. His OP is baseless.


Tell me, what is your idea about ascending to the spiritual realm and having psychic experiences with spirits and angels?

One of the things that is hilarious is that theists are more obsessed about atheism than atheists are. Just about 3/4 of Mazulu's posts is about the evils of atheism, atheists and science. There is no idea there. There is no new way of thinking. His posts here are usually trolling and flaming posts and when he doesn't get what he wants, he goes on an abusive spray across the forum and via PM, resulting in all the staff having to delete his abuse and banning him. That to me is not a sharing of ideas.

I admit that I was not following the teaching of the ascended masters by being abusive. I take responsibility for my bad behavior.

 

[Magical Realist]

Some of these Sciforums threads seem to be more about board participants' individual psychologies than they are about exploring ideas.

Some threads are more conducive to processing than others. People's unique experiences and beliefs will always come into play then. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I think it just shows we are all human.

 

[wegs]

I admit that I was not following the teaching of the ascended masters by being abusive. I take responsibility for my bad behavior.

This is good to read, Mazulu...but who are these ''ascended masters'' you speak of? I saw you mention this here and there, maybe you explain this elsewhere, and I just missed it.

 

[Syne]

Yet, according to the definition you provided and your lack of explaining it, spirituality is a meaningless word. So, if you say you're spiritual, you're saying that you're meaningless.



In other words, they admit a small degree of meaningless. However, they are the same in that they don't accept gods and religions. Do you understand?



So, you're a non-believer?



That is the hypocrisy of believers, while they state emphatically they pray for things and shift their burdens of responsibility, they are forced by reality to go out and work every day in order to survive. Of course, they'll claim God got them their jobs because they prayed for it, they'll claim God got them to work safely each day because they prayed for that, and if something goes wrong, Satan did it.

There is a whole wiki page on the definition of "spirituality". If you cannot comprehend it... sounds like a personal problem. Where are you finding any definition of agnostic that positively states "that they don't accept gods and religions"?

"...an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities" -wiki​

What about secular?

"Secularity is the state of being separate from religion, or not being exclusively allied or against any particular religion." -wiki​

Non-believer in what?

You are making a hasty generalization. What is your anecdotal experience with believers?

Oh, he's a believer. He's just one of the many here who don't have the balls to own up to what, exactly, they believe in.

You should really correct this misstatement, as you have already posted to the thread where I have explained what I think. It is the intellectually honest thing to do.

 

[wellwisher]

Science is over its head when it comes to disproving religious experience. For example, you cannot use science to prove the existence of dream details in dreams, since you can't verify these with science. There is an entire area of human experience beyond science. It is called soft science because science goes limp. Dream details is the tip of the iceberg.

Dreams are from the right brain and therefore are too advanced for science, since basic dreams details is over it head to prove. It is not a group hug but requires direct experience via self reliance than may not be reproduce able.

Say you invented something. To be acceptable to science, you need to dumb it down so anyone can see it. It will not be accepted in the raw since tis would take too much brain power to figure out. Right brainer face this problem of having to dumb down the experience, because they are not met half way. Science goes limp on the approach march. The Gnostics were the exception and make it half way.

It is dishonest of science to say something cannot be proven when it really should say science goes limp there and there is nobody to dumb it down enough to get a rise out of science; needs a stunt.

 

[Mazulu]

This is good to read, Mazulu...but who are these ''ascended masters'' you speak of? I saw you mention this here and there, maybe you explain this elsewhere, and I just missed it.

In the Ascended Master Teachings, Ascended Masters are believed to be spiritually enlightened beings who in past incarnations were ordinary humans, but who have undergone a series of spiritual transformations originally called initiations.

Both "Mahatmas" and "Ascended Master" are terms used in the Ascended Master Teachings. Ascended Master is based on the Theosophical concept of the Mahatma or Master of the Ancient Wisdom...

wegs,
Discovering the ascended masters is a spiritual journey, not an intellectual one.

 

[wegs]

wegs,
Discovering the ascended masters is a spiritual journey, not an intellectual one.

I never said it was. Sorry I asked.