Bowser said:Yep. You guys seemed off topic and on a personality binge. Thought I would bring it back on topic.
With a fake horror show? How, exactly, does that work?
Bowser said:Yep. You guys seemed off topic and on a personality binge. Thought I would bring it back on topic.
I wasn't pointing to the video, which just happened to be on the head of the page. My interest was the instruments of death that they catalog under the video, which are the tools of the trade. If you can get past the video, there might be something to learn. Nonetheless, I'm certain the video will be the focus of the link. How unfortunate.With a fake horror show? How, exactly, does that work?
BowserMy interest was the instruments of death that they catalog under the video, which are the tools of the trade. If you can get past the video, there might be something to learn
Bowser
what exactly did you hope people would "learn" by observing the instruments?
this seems more of a shock tactic, IMHO... much like a vegan making someone watch a cow/sheep/chicken/animal being slaughtered...
topic"
so, you are intentionally trying to pull the vegan/horror show shock value tactic?If you can look at a device that's used to drill into an infants head like a cork screw so it can be pull out of the womb
and what if a person can? what if a person has actually had to perform surgery or be in surgery assisting?if you can consider all those devices without being emotionally repulsed by the idea of abortion...well.
have you ever done it personally? have you ever had to smell the blood and carcass as it is being skinned or killed? why is your reverence of life only towards humans so that you are willing to kill anything so long as you can eat it? is it really any different? especially Veal, chickens, eggs, etc... technically, they are abortions, or at least the wholesale slaughter of youthful underdeveloped life forms...I suppose that if we were talking about chickens and cows, the slaughter would be more acceptable. I mean, we eat those critters.
Are you suggesting that they are inserting drills into the woman's vagina, past her cervix and into her uterus? Because that sounds really realistic, doesn't it?If you can look at a device that's used to drill into an infants head like a cork screw so it can be pull out of the womb, or consider an instrument that has the one purpose of severing arms and legs, if you can consider all those devices without being emotionally repulsed by the idea of abortion...well. I suppose that if we were talking about chickens and cows, the slaughter would be more acceptable. I mean, we eat those critters.
so, you are intentionally trying to pull the vegan/horror show shock value tactic?
trying to raise the emotion of the issue while refusing to accept the science?
so... if you want to talk about tools used in surgeries that look horrifying, why not start a thread so you can see orthopedic surgical tools, cardiac surgical tools, neurological surgical tools, (better yet, ANY surgical tools, especially the drills and tools used in accessing the cranium, oncology surgery, dentistry and orthopedics)
many of those tools are even MORE horrifying, but used regularly to save lives!
look up a Hare Traction Splint ... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hare traction splint&t=ffnt&iax=1&ia=images
this is used to splint a leg fracture- femur- on a LIVE patient, in pain, and literally pull a bone into realignment! and depending on the user/situation, you don't always get pain killers (you don't always want CNS depressants on an emergency patient if you can help it-with additional chest trauma and breathing difficulties especially), so this is almost surely a horrible torture... yet it is also standard equipment on a Rescue Truck, Fire Vehicles, and any advanced medical team... especially those who regularly deal with auto extrication
like i said, you are attempting to throw gas on a fire without actually acknowledging the scientific underpinnings of the issue...
My rational is that life is good, death is bad. I've yet to see an argument that proves otherwise.why can't you allow rational thought into the subject?
have you ever done it personally? have you ever had to smell the blood and carcass as it is being skinned or killed? why is your reverence of life only towards humans so that you are willing to kill anything so long as you can eat it? is it really any different? especially Veal, chickens, eggs, etc... technically, they are abortions, or at least the wholesale slaughter of youthful underdeveloped life forms...
so again: what is it you want people to actually "learn"?
or are you just trying to inflame the issue and cause intentional stress by various means?
Please, can the hysteria and the fear mongering. It is not only foolish, but also based on 'fakery' and special effects for video.
they are used for medical/surgucal practice, which is exactly the same thing as the "tools" you want to show others from the siteYou're referring to tools that are used to put bodies together, not rip them apart
but i do know exactly what i am advocating and i've seen actual procedures in class and in training (not fake ones)... and i've been in actual surgery assisting (requirement for an EMT when i was in the FD, along with ER time at least twice monthly)I think some people have little idea of what they are advocating, and the potential absolute horror of the procedure.
so you never kill insects? rats? mice? you don't eat anything natural at all? you don't eat grains? cut your lawn? pick flowers? and you never wear leather? clothes? use only synthetic rope?My rational is that life is good, death is bad. I've yet to see an argument that proves otherwise.
Hunters don't always swiftly kill their prey (human or otherwise). is it wrong?I've seen various forms of animal cruelty on the web; however, what I saw of the slaughter house looked merciful in comparison to the treatment the aborted fetus is given. I don't believe cattle are torn apart while alive. Maybe you have first hand experience. Mine is that they are given a swift death before hand.
and again, this is a subjective argument and takes a lot as assumption and doesn't take anything else into consideration except an overly emotional responseSome folks seem to look at it as no more serious than taking out the garbage. Knowing what we know, would we really subject another human to such a terrible end?
but the whole reason for you posting the link was for the shock value and the emotional response, so why not take the heat of the fake vid too?If I had known people would fixate on that damn video, I wouldn't have posted the link
"Just happened to be"? Why do you frequent websites where that level of calculated and carefully staged deception "just happens to be" front and center on the first page?bowser said:I wasn't pointing to the video, which just happened to be on the head of the page
I'm going to ignore the whole link. Or maybe call the police - that kind of operation can't possible be entirely legal. They're taking advantage of vulnerable adults. How much money did you send them?bowser said:Just ignore the video, please.
"Just happened to be"? Why do you frequent websites where that level of calculated and carefully staged deception "just happens to be" front and center on the first page?
Are there no decent and honest websites supporting your views? You sent those people money, didn't you.
I'm going to ignore the whole link. Or maybe call the police - that kind of operation can't possible be entirely legal. They're taking advantage of vulnerable adults. How much money did you send them?
BowserJust ignore the video, please. There is a plethora of photos to view below that fricken video. If I had known people would fixate on that damn video, I wouldn't have posted the link.
but the site itself is not honest... take for instance the tools i mentioned above, or the speculum (listed as: Vaginal Speculum - This tool opens the vagina and is used to aid in abortion. )I couldn't share the site in bits and pieces. I thought about linking to the images in question, but I thought it best to leave the site intact. Spank me for being honest.
They are surgical instruments. What of them?Just ignore the video, please. There is a plethora of photos to view below that fricken video. If I had known people would fixate on that damn video, I wouldn't have posted the link.
They are surgical instruments. What of them?
So the instruments on the front page of that site you linked are there for shock value.
Why are you posting such links? Are you trying to shock people? Because it is very dishonest.
Why are you visiting such sites? Why link a video that you are not even prepared to watch? Are you going for shock value?
Linking to deception and lies is not "being honest". Such links are part of your posting - those deceptions come our way by your deliberate posting of them.bowser said:Spank me for being honest.
So I took a look, and noticed a fair number of claims that seemed dubious to me - picking one in the middle more or less at random, that the human brain is "fully developed" at 12 weeks, I ran a twenty second netsearch and found that it was false:bowser said:This one is my favorite...
https://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/abortiontypes/
The video is of an actual D&E procedure, no stunt double fetus or special effects. Abortion procedure aren’t pretty to watch, but neither is the slaughter of living meat for the dinner table.Please, can the hysteria and the fear mongering. It is not only foolish, but also based on 'fakery' and special effects for video.
It is more than likely not an 'abortion'.The video is of an actual D&E procedure, no stunt double fetus or special effects. Abortion procedure aren’t pretty to watch, but neither is the slaughter of living meat for the dinner table.
Linking to deception and lies is not "being honest". Such links are part of your posting - those deceptions come our way by your deliberate posting of them.
You didn't answer: how much money are you and the typically gullible prolifers sending those folks?
I suppose you can find anything online if you look hard enough.So I took a look, and noticed a fair number of claims that seemed dubious to me - picking one in the middle more or less at random, that the human brain is "fully developed" at 12 weeks, I ran a twenty second netsearch and found that it was false:
Notice also that myelination, critical for pain perception and voluntary movement, appears fairly late in gestation - long after the 12 week point at which the site claims the developing baby feels pain. So I didn't check any more, but that and every other claim made on that site appears to be dubious - I see no reason to trust anything I'm reading there.
I don't feel a need. It's a living creature.Have you yourself checked any of the claims these sites are making?