Invitation to all Christians...

[(Q)]

There are lots of reasons I believe as I believe.

1. I was raised by two parents who went to church on Sunday and taught me to believe in God.

That one reason alone, indoctrination, is sufficient in answering the question.

There is little other reason to wonder why Christians cannot understand why anyone else is not Christian when indoctrination from early childhood instills into the child the invisible and undetectable are ultimate powers in the universe.

And one need not separate Christianity from this form of child abuse. Most other cults are pretty much the same.

 

[GeoffP]

That is your belief. As for your limited understanding, a personal feeling is different for everybody.

Excuse me: please don't dare to try and compare your intellect or education with my own. I raised a quite simple case that you should be able to refute; yet, you do not seem interested in its pursuit, and I have attempted to remain polite. I'm amused that someone who complains of ignorant insanity should object so strongly to a statement of personal belief.

I just don't have 'personal' feelings or resonate with your flavor of faith. Doesn't mean others don't have spirituality or personal feelings.

I didn't imply or state that it did. I said "it", referring to my form of feeling. Please read.

What an insanely ignorant but quite typical thing for a christian to say and believe. LOL.

Yet, I said no such thing; this is your own divination. I believe you raised the concept of "ignorance" just a moment ago. Specks and planks, peta.

 

[GeoffP]

That one reason alone, indoctrination, is sufficient in answering the question.

There is little other reason to wonder why Christians cannot understand why anyone else is not Christian when indoctrination from early childhood instills into the child the invisible and undetectable are ultimate powers in the universe.

And one need not separate Christianity from this form of child abuse. Most other cults are pretty much the same.

Please don't compare religion with child abuse; the two are not synonymous.

Note, too: this "indoctrination" is quite readily thrown off, Q, where personal choice warrants.

 

[peta9]

Excuse me: please don't dare to try and compare your intellect or education with my own. I raised a quite simple case that you should be able to refute; yet, you do not seem interested in its pursuit, and I have attempted to remain polite. I'm amused that someone who complains of ignorant insanity should object so strongly to a statement of personal belief.



I didn't imply or state that it did. I said "it", referring to my form of feeling. Please read.



Yet, I said no such thing; this is your own divination. I believe you raised the concept of "ignorance" just a moment ago. Specks and planks, peta.

And yeah, there is a certain faith to it. A personal feeling. If you don't have it, that's your affair.

Your dishonesty is trifling. You post most certainly implied a personal feeling, nothing more. If you want to admit you were unclear, then so be it. Don't blame me for how your post read. And your "dare" and dominating, supremacist attitude with me is speaking volumes of your religious affiliation. lol

I can dare to say whatever I want. You are not the boss over me thiest.

 

[Thoreau]

To all who had a sincere interest in posting in response to the ORIGINAL post:

Thank you for your responses, they are much appreciated. But do to the apparent unreversable thread jacking, I've requested this thread be closed.

Again, I made it clear in the beginning that if anyone had anything to say to another member in opposition to thier posts, to please handle it privately in order to keep from veerinng off topic.

If anyone else would like to respond to my original post, feel free to PM me. I am interested to hear what you have to say.

So yall can debate away about who's right and who's wrong until its locked. Im outta here.

 

[Till Eulenspiegel]

That one reason alone, indoctrination, is sufficient in answering the question.

There is little other reason to wonder why Christians cannot understand why anyone else is not Christian when indoctrination from early childhood instills into the child the invisible and undetectable are ultimate powers in the universe.

And one need not separate Christianity from this form of child abuse. Most other cults are pretty much the same.

Q,

I listed quite a few reasons why I am a Christian. Being raised by Christian parents was only one of the reasons I mentioned. I know lots of adults who do not follow the religion of their parents so your assumption is simply wrong.

You also seem to think that those of us who were raised in Christian households cannot fathom that someone else might not be Christian. That is far from the truth. I know quite well that there are people who are not religius and that there are people who are religious but not Christian. I have family members who are atheist, family members who are Jewish and family members who are Christian. My youngest brother is dating a woman from Turkey who is Muslim. All these people are, in my estimation, good people, both the Christians and non-Christians.

You are exagerating in the extreme when you say those who are Christian cannot understand how others might not be Christian.

 

[(Q)]

Please don't compare religion with child abuse; the two are not synonymous.

The indoctrination of children into their parents religion is clearly child abuse. That is made evident in the fact that parents (and the church) preach versions of cosmological and biological creationism, both of which have been shown to be false, yet are instilled as facts into the minds of children.

 

[(Q)]

I listed quite a few reasons why I am a Christian. Being raised by Christian parents was only one of the reasons I mentioned. I know lots of adults who do not follow the religion of their parents so your assumption is simply wrong.

Indoctrination is the one reason you are a Christian. The fact that you failed to use critical thinking skills into your adult life while others did does not preclude that fact.

You also seem to think that those of us who were raised in Christian households cannot fathom that someone else might not be Christian. That is far from the truth. I know quite well that there are people who are not religius and that there are people who are religious but not Christian. I have family members who are atheist, family members who are Jewish and family members who are Christian. My youngest brother is dating a woman from Turkey who is Muslim. All these people are, in my estimation, good people, both the Christians and non-Christians.

You are exagerating in the extreme when you say those who are Christian cannot understand how others might not be Christian.[/QUOTE]

I applaud the diversity in your family, which again, does not preclude the fact there does not exist such diversity in other families. But then, I don't think I ever made that blanket statement nor is it an exaggeration.

 

[Till Eulenspiegel]

You are exagerating in the extreme when you say those who are Christian cannot understand how others might not be Christian.

I never said that. I said just the opposite, that Christians can understand how someone else might not believe in the Christian God.

 

[GeoffP]

Your dishonesty is trifling. You post most certainly implied a personal feeling, nothing more.

Precisely my point. It's like you understand, then don't.

And your "dare" and dominating, supremacist attitude with me is speaking volumes of your religious affiliation.

LOL - you accused me of ignorance. Now, all I'm doing is merely reminding you that I'm your intellectual superior. I don't have any particular sense of pride in that specifically; I just wanted you to become aware of the facts around your comments so you could avoid unfounded insults. If you want niceness, then be so good as to return it, or refrain from commenting; you'll be expected to maintain a degree of civility if you want to discuss anything. I reiterate that the thread was not about your own beliefs, but about what makes Christians have faith in their religion. Thanks.

The indoctrination of children into their parents religion is clearly child abuse. That is made evident in the fact that parents (and the church) preach versions of cosmological and biological creationism, both of which have been shown to be false, yet are instilled as facts into the minds of children.

Neither my parents, nor my church. And, interestingly, I wasn't indoctrinated in anything except neoDarwinianism, of which I remain - and always will - an adherent.

 

[peta9]

Precisely my point. It's like you understand, then don't.



LOL - you accused me of ignorance. Now, all I'm doing is merely reminding you that I'm your intellectual superior. I don't have any particular sense of pride in that specifically; I just wanted you to become aware of the facts around your comments so you could avoid unfounded insults. If you want niceness, then be so good as to return it, or refrain from commenting; you'll be expected to maintain a degree of civility if you want to discuss anything. I reiterate that the thread was not about your own beliefs, but about what makes Christians have faith in their religion. Thanks.



Neither my parents, nor my church. And, interestingly, I wasn't indoctrinated in anything except neoDarwinianism, of which I remain - and always will - an adherent.

That you think you are my intellectual superior is laughable and ludicrous. It's as if your religiosity is not clouding but actually exposing your egomania like a presumed authority head from the man in the sky.

Let me try to explain this again, it's very simple if you were honest with yourself. Your post clearly read as in like "personal feelings", not your personal feelings. And you think you are intellectually superior and stupidly try to pretend you communicated well a point that you didn't and keep arguing and defending yourself over?? LOL.

So disagreement is now always an "insult" too. LOL

I didn't disagree about a belief, I posted a fact. There is a difference. If you were intellectually superior, you could make out the distinction. But evidently you can't. I never said that religion or the christian god doesn't exist because they have been created. I said they were made up and that is a FACT. Learn history and you will see. I never said that there was no possibility of a creator/s, just that gods are made by men just like all the gods in history.

Being religious doesn't excuse you of FACTS.

You can believe in your god etc but FACTS are still FACTS.

 

[GeoffP]

Well, I'm sorry, peta, but I have more education and a stronger intellect. I'm sorry. I don't think less of you for it, but please don't presume to try and call me "ignorant", thanks. You're not helping your argument at all.

Now: your fact. Can you demonstrate, unequivocally, your proof for "no god". I have a fairly direct null position here regarding what I believe is the existence for one, and I've already posted one element of a basis for my belief, so you should be able to disprove it quite quickly if you're as in command of the "FACTS" as I. So, you have three choices:

i) do so.

ii) take up an interest in Stephen Jay Gould and something called "Non-Overlapping Magisteria", or

iii) stop trolling a thread about personal belief, which the author didn't want to turn into a debate. Let's not make this official, shall we?

Also:

I never said that religion or the christian god doesn't exist because they have been created. I said they were made up and that is a FACT. Learn history and you will see.

These points are contradictory. Please correct them.

 

[peta9]

Well, I'm sorry, peta, but I have more education and a stronger intellect. I'm sorry. I don't think less of you for it, but please don't presume to try and call me "ignorant", thanks. You're not helping your argument at all.

Now: your fact. Can you demonstrate, unequivocally, your proof for "no god". I have a fairly direct null position here regarding what I believe is the existence for one, and I've already posted one element of a basis for my belief, so you should be able to disprove it quite quickly if you're as in command of the "FACTS" as I. So, you have three choices:

i) do so.

ii) take up an interest in Stephen Jay Gould and something called "Non-Overlapping Magisteria", or

iii) stop trolling a thread about personal belief, which the author didn't want to turn into a debate. Let's not make this official, shall we?

Also:



These points are contradictory. Please correct them.

Obviously if you want to evade the point, this will just be a wild goose chase.

I never unequivocally said there is no possibility of a "god" or "creator". We're talking about manmade gods and thier characteristics, powers attributed to them etc. It's called creating a god, far from debating whether there is a creator and what it is.

My points were not contradictory.

 

[GeoffP]

Obviously if you want to evade the point, this will just be a wild goose chase.

Insults and demands and obstruction, oh my.

I never unequivocally said there is no possibility of a "god" or "creator". We're talking about manmade gods and thier characteristics, powers attributed to them etc. It's called creating a god, far from debating whether there is a creator and what it is.

Well, I don't believe it's manmade. If you do, please prove so, or refrain from discussing your position as fact. Thanks.

My points were not contradictory.

Then illustrate how not.

Peta, I sense I'm wasting my time with you. You seem a bit too preoccupied with the chip on your shoulder, to the extent that the expression of another faith by other people is somehow offensive to you. Or, possibly, your command of the language is insufficient to the task. Either way, I'll check back in with you when you have something intelligent to offer.

Thanks.

 

[(Q)]

I never said that. I said just the opposite, that Christians can understand how someone else might not believe in the Christian God.

Uh, if you look up at post #66, you'll find that you DID say that.

 

[peta9]

Insults and demands and obstruction, oh my.



Well, I don't believe it's manmade. If you do, please prove so, or refrain from discussing your position as fact. Thanks.



Then illustrate how not.

Peta, I sense I'm wasting my time with you. You seem a bit too preoccupied with the chip on your shoulder, to the extent that the expression of another faith by other people is somehow offensive to you. Or, possibly, your command of the language is insufficient to the task. Either way, I'll check back in with you when you have something intelligent to offer.

Thanks.

Wow, this is where the line between fact and, belief and speculation blur for theists.

Very good example. How can a god assigned personal characteristics, as well as borrowed from pagan myths before not be manmade? Don't hurt yourself trying to answer.

I'm not disputing the faith in your possible god and it's likely limited window of perspective but possible kernels of truth. I'm just pointing out that it is not a fact but a faith and is manmade.

I can believe that aliens exist in another universe, but it's still a faith. If I attribute characteristics and abilities etc now and create one in concept, it's manmade and a faith that it will be true or partially turn out to be true. A faith.

That was all my point.