Intelligent debate between Theists and Atheists is Impossible on Sciforums

TheVisitor said:
Both sides are so polarized.
Science refutes God, and religion refutes science, even when science proves religion wrong.

I said religion though, not the bible.
The bible doesn't say half the things people try to make it say, and the things it does say few understand.

The two, science and the bible......all private interpretations aside, will say the same thing eventually.

If let go long enough, science will break into the very labratories of God.
But the power of such knowledge without the character to contain it.......

Does anyone see a dilemma here?

How many times have we started over?
We are on the threshold of a new world, and a thousand years of peace.
But even after that........the war starts again.

Someday, when the lessons are all learned there will be peace.
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There are similar ideas stated in the vedas

It is stated that here is no ultimate difference between emprical knowledge and surrender to god, since empirical knowledge culminates in surrender to god - the only difference between empiric knowledge and surrender to god is many births and deaths

BG 7.19: After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.
 
Pete said:
Not all atheists are zealots. Neither are all theists.

Unfortunately, zealots (both atheist and theist) are more visible, because they are the most argumentative.

Extremist opinions are over-represented in discussions, and more likely to degenerate into flaming. This doesn't mean that intelligent debate is impossible... but it does mean that it's much less visible.
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So the solution is to take it with a rather large lump of salt?
 
lightgigantic said:
There must be an easier alternative - after all I have had discussions that were intelligent (ie didn't innvolve copious ad homming as a regular pastime) with atheists and they didn't innvolve either of annhilating each other, either grossly or subtley.
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It could be looked at as a non-issue. Memes aren't real; ideas have no existence or devices of propagation independent of the people who carry them. It is impossible to empirically distinguish a "meme" from a plain old trend.

That said, this object of "destroying the meme" without regard for its carrier is exactly the aforementioned dehumanization.
 
Pete said:
Not all atheists are zealots. Neither are all theists.

Unfortunately, zealots (both atheist and theist) are more visible, because they are the most argumentative.

Extremist opinions are over-represented in discussions, and more likely to degenerate into flaming. This doesn't mean that intelligent debate is impossible... but it does mean that it's much less visible.
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Not forgetting that everyone loves a free-for-all (second only to sex and nudity/porn).
 
baumgarten said:
It could be looked at as a non-issue. Memes aren't real; ideas have no existence or devices of propagation independent of the people who carry them. It is impossible to empirically distinguish a "meme" from a plain old trend.

That said, this object of "destroying the meme" without regard for its carrier is exactly the aforementioned dehumanization.
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lol - so in other words his suggestion was that you become really really really good at ad homming
 
lightgigantic said:
There must be an easier alternative - after all I have had discussions that were intelligent (ie didn't innvolve copious ad homming as a regular pastime) with atheists and they didn't innvolve either of annhilating each other, either grossly or subtley.
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I am hopeful there is a fast, sustainable, and constructive de-memer. If it exists, it elludes me at present.
 
lightgigantic said:
hardly an inspiring request for intelligent discussion .....[/B][/I]
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Come on, please humor me.

I choose the greek gods. What is your choice?

By the way the point is, that it is not just atheist vs. theist, but theist #1 vs. theist #2 vs. etc.etc. atheist.

In short, the mutually exclusive religions debate with each other just as much as theists debate atheists.

So name your religion, don't be afafraid. And you can start with unproving that my greek gods never existed...
 
There is a common ground when the truth be known.

Cain was not Adam's son.
Who's son was he?
He was a hybrid cross of Eve and a pre-human race known as serpent.
Cain killed Abel....and Seth was born of Adam and Eve.
Then man began to call upon the Lord.

Cains linage is a part (animal)man part God (Adam) hybrid.
Seth's linage was God/God from Adam and Eve.
Adam was a son of God.
They stayed seperate.....up till sometime before the flood.
When Seth's linage crossed with Cain's......thats when God destroyed it.
The pure line was corrupted.
Cain's linage lifespans aren't recorded in the bible....why?
It gives this away.
They weren't of God....they were the giants.
Seth's were spiritual long, lived 900+ years and would have seemed as god in flesh.
Look at the way they spoke of Solomon with his prophetic gift of disernment....they said it's like a god siting there, nothing about your life is hid from him.

After the flood the the mixture would have been about 2/3 god and 1/3 man descending from Noah.
The world was of one language then and all believed in Jehovah for a while, so many cultures have stories so similar.

Look at your epics of Gilgamesh and Hercules......
The Olympians and the Titans......Gods that seem to be ageless, and spiritual at war with their own descendants that are giants, gods of the flesh.

There is your roots of ancient Greek legends.....hiding right in plain sight all these years in the bible.

Why has it been hid?
Because it reveals the linage of the serpents seed that Jesus and John the Baptist and Paul all referred too...

"I thank thee Father that thou has hid these things from the wise and prudent, and revealed them unto babes such as are willing to learn."
Thats why he taught only in parable to the "multitudes"

The rest of the story is to long to explain here, but to repeat....when the truth be known the legend of Greek "gods" may have some basis in fact.
But the real story still lies buried in mystery to the world, between the lines in the bible.
 
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Syzygys said:
Come on, please humor me.

I choose the greek gods. What is your choice?

By the way the point is, that it is not just atheist vs. theist, but theist #1 vs. theist #2 vs. etc.etc. atheist.

In short, the mutually exclusive religions debate with each other just as much as theists debate atheists.

So name your religion, don't be afafraid. And you can start with unproving that my greek gods never existed...
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Here's a new thread for this if you want to take it up

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=1219519#post1219519
 
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Only if the poster has something intelligent to say in the first place... :)

After reading 1-2 lines of The Visitor, I fell asleep and can't engage in any meaningful discussion...
 
Syzygys said:
Only if the poster has something intelligent to say in the first place... :)

After reading 1-2 lines of The Visitor, I fell asleep and can't engage in any meaningful discussion...
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You could request a clarification or point out the fallacies of his assumptions - or if I encounter a situation where these two options are not practical You could just ignore them, rather than ad homming (which appears to be the direction you are heading in at full speed)
 
lightgigantic said:
Alternatively you can repost it where you see fit and let the ad homs roll

"God exists moron"
"God is nonexistent moron"
"God exists moron"

etc etc
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Whenever I see you calling something an ad hominem when it isn't an ad hominem, I'm going post my current tally. I will call it my "Lightgigantic must be a complete idiot for not even knowing what an Ad Hominem is Tally"

Ooooh. I see three already!

LMBACIFNEKWAAHIT = 3
 
lightgigantic said:
You could just ignore them, rather than ad homming
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Since when are you allowed to use logic? :)

Remember, it is either or: either the scientific or the supernatural approach, can't mix both of them...

Generally I don't like long explantions (unless it is the meaning of life or something) when something could be stated in 2 sentences....
 
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