In regards to atheism.

Bertrand!
And he refused a knighthood, ergo, not Sir.
Thank for that I was up on the spelling but had a lapse, so common I don't let it bother me...but the news on his refusal on a knighthood, although fits my image of the man, was indeed news to me.

And thinking about it I must have picked up referring to him that way somewhere and that has me wondering.

An absolutely brilliant man.
Any of his works would be worthy of a lifetimes work and yet he turned out exceptional works faster than most could produce children's books.
Alex
 
So although I can go along with the notion god is real, using the approach I covered to define what can be considered real, it seems to me that that the writing of scriptures to the building of churches, temples etc. represent actions of the same nature as hanging a stocking.

Just as and the same for the Easter bunny evidence of its non existence comes from the fact we can not attribute any physical activity to it.

Is not the best evidence for the non existence of god the fact that we can not attribute any physical activity to god and that the physical evidence comes from men, such as writing scriptures and building places of worship.

Alex
 
Just as and the same for the Easter bunny evidence of its non existence comes from the fact we can not attribute any physical activity to it.
Well said.

Is not the best evidence for the non existence of god the fact that we can not attribute any physical activity to god and that the physical evidence comes from men, such as writing scriptures and building places of worship.
Sure, but theists assert that God's activity is ubiquitously evident.

Of course, it's an assertion that can never be falsified, so it's useless as a discussion point.
 
Well said.

Thank you.

Sure, but theists assert that God's activity is ubiquitously evident.

You would think given that I have come half way on this and accepting that we can call god real that they could agree that god does not exist.

My neighbour, when I lived on the river and I may have said this before, said to me that he realised god was there by looking at a tree... "I mean how else could a tree grow like that"... I am sure those were his exact words.

I suggest that he provided evidence of his delusion and such is the case for so much of the evidence offered to show god does exist.

He seemed to invest in religion just like he invested in real estate with expectation a good return down the line.

He thought the prospect of living forever in heaven was worth the effort.

I remember him reading out to me something from the new testament about heaven.

They shall build their own houses, the animals will lie down together and other stuff...when he finished I said " well we have arrived that describes this place exactly", the river was a nice place to live and as close to heaven that I could imagine, but he was not impressed but polite enough to put his bible away.

So our list of evidence for the existence of god can start with trees.

Acts of god...natural disasters that insurance companies once, still?, used to side step a claim.

Perhaps others can add to the list.

As to the existence of god I really think the put up or shut up idea is the only acceptable approach.

If someone claims they can reverse baldness and grown hair on a bald head it would seem growing the hair would put to rest the calls of those who protest it can not be done.

Touch and feel, smell, vision the ability to hear sound let these determine gods existence ...let imagination allow him to be real.

Alex
 
the animals will lie down together and other stuff.

Was it PT Barnum who had a exhibit of a lamb laying with a lion

When asked how he accomplished this he replied

We put a new lamb in at midnight each day

Acts of god...natural disasters that insurance companies once, still?, used to side step a claim.

I think regulations now prohibit that particular scam

The regulators still need to look at flood and stormwater (rain) damage

..let imagination allow him to be real.

Which is fine

Unless he intrudes into the real world as per the above scam

:)
 
The regulators still need to look at flood and stormwater (rain) damage
On the subject I went to Lismore yesterday.
They copped severe flooding.

So I went into a phone shop that had been flooded and asked if they had any flood damaged mobile phones with a straight face.

The young bloke was onto me and said "Sorry we just sold out, they didn't work but they were so cheap we sold the lot real fast".

But the place was busy and near back to normal.

But why folk live or do business when sooner or layer it will flood is beyond me.

Send god the bill.

Alex
 
Send god the bill.

Send insurance the bill

They have god in their policy

Let them deal with him

Of mobile phones can get a double sim with camera for $10 here but no battery and seller does not know where can buy

But for $15 can get a double sim and working battery plus charger

Add $5 credit and for just sms should last 4 weeks

:)
 
Of mobile phones can get a double sim with camera for 10herebutnobatteryandsellerdoesnotknowwherecanbuyButfor10herebutnobatteryandsellerdoesnotknowwherecanbuyButfor10 here but no battery and seller does not know where can buy But for 15 can get a double sim and working battery plus charger
I tried to quote and got the above.
????
I have so much credit if I could cash it in I could buy another house.
Mine costs $30 a month pre paid which compared to what I spent only 12 months ago is fine with me.

I started with a brick phone before anyone, cost $5500-00, and the first bill was $750-00, but the first two incoming calls made me $11,000-00.

I try not to let money worry me these days, price of petrol that sort of thing, but the existence of god and reality, you know the important things have my attention, that's why I am sticking with this thread I believe we are making progress.

Alex
 
You handed over a shovel

I don't know what you mean unless you indicate I have left the door open with my input on reality and god satisfying the test of what is real but I have done so in the reasonable expectation to be met with an acceptance that indeed god is real but does not exist...I can live with that and am looking forward to Jan agreeing with me.

Anyways a shovel could be most useful in this thread.

An aside, I lived for some time in a little town its name starting with the letter J north of the town near where you were stationed.
On trips South we would often pick up hitch hikers from the base.
Alex
 
I don't know what you mean unless you indicate I have left the door open with my input on reality and god satisfying the test of what is real but I have done so in the reasonable expectation to be met with an acceptance that indeed god is real but does not exist...I can live with that and am looking forward to Jan agreeing with me.

Anyways a shovel could be most useful in this thread.

An aside, I lived for some time in a little town its name starting with the letter J north of the town near where you were stationed.
On trips South we would often pick up hitch hikers from the base.
Alex

I just think the person of your interest was in a hole made with a spoon

Your efforts to bring him out didn't work

The hole got deeper

Either through the spoon working faster or your post acting as a shovel

May I recommend you try and find a copy of The Jet Propelled Couch

This thread and a player fit very well into the same role

:)
 
From Hapsburg in

Why there is no Mrs god thread

You can't judge religion as a whole on their terms.

Thought my response would fit well here
:)

Generally that's what religions require

' Don't go for that shiny bauble over there come over to our bigger shinier bubble '

Forget their terms

If you really really need religion

Invent your own

put in all the nice stuff you like

leave out all the bad stuff you don't like

add your own personal touches

and two things you should remember
  1. Adapt your religion as quickly as possible to a changing world
  2. Keep it to yourself don't go looking for converts
You may advise others to invent their own religion

Even use yours as a template

Lead a happy life with your religion

Let others live theirs

:)
 
"God Is" is a mantra. It is a rote saying you say to yourself to strengthen your beliefs in a self-reinforcing loop.

If you say so Dave.

It has no explanatory power. It does not inform the discussion for anyone but yourself.

I can't understand why. It's simple enough.

It is not even correct grammar (a hallmark of a deepity).

It really bothers you, doesn't it?

I'm not sure you realize that it actually damages your credibility in a discussion, because
- you use it when you've run out of other things to say, and
- when you say it what people are hearing is "Never mind all of your "logic", God is myssssteriousss!"

No theist has credibility on here, unless they keep their theism under strict lock and key.


I haven't run out of things to say.
I've given my answer. Why am I not surprised that can't grasp it?
Because God not exist for you.

If you're honest, you have to admit it. When you finally do admit it
That's probably not the image you were hoping to project.

, you'll understand that you currently have no clue about what is God.

Sure we can go back and forth with this, but God doesn't exist for you (fact).
You cannot go any further than that.
Therefore you are without God. It's really very simple.

That's probably not the image you were hoping to project.

I know image is very important here, but I'm fussed about imagery. I comfortable with who I am.

Jan.
 
No theist has credibility on here, unless they keep their theism under strict lock and key.
Well, yes. This is not the best "forum" for discussion of God. It's dispassionate, and objective and requires demonstrable evidentiary argument.

It doesn't mean it's not a legit discussion, just not going to get the treatment you're looking for here.

Because God not exist for you.
Which means it also doesn't exist for you.
Since, as you confirmed, you are talking about objective existence.

, you'll understand that you currently have no clue about what is God.
False. You have an idea of what God is. As do I.
Both are equally valid. Both are equally unfalsifiable.

You don't grant my idea is accurate.
I don't grant your idea is accurate.

Sure we can go back and forth with this, but God doesn't exist for you (fact).
Which means it also doesn't exist for you.
Since, as you confirmed, you are talking about objective existence.

Therefore you are without God.
Which means it also doesn't exist for you.
Since, as you confirmed, you are talking about objective existence.
 
Last edited:
Which means it also doesn't exist for you.
Since, as you confirmed, you are talking about objective existence.

If God doesn't exist as far as you can see, it is understandable that you could conclude that God doesn't exit for anyone.

False. You have an idea of what God is. As do I.
Both are equally valid. Both are equally unfalsifiable.


You are correct, both are equally valid. God does not exist as far as you're aware, and God is.

You don't grant my idea is accurate.
I don't grant your idea is accurate.
On the contrary. I grant both "situations" as accurate.

Which means it also doesn't exist for you.
Since, as you confirmed, you

You're the one needs to bring up objective reality. For me God just Is.

Which means it also doesn't exist for you.
Since, as you confirmed, you are talking about objective existence.

Hmm!

The reason you are without God, is because God doesn't exist as far as you're aware. You're essentially cut off from comprehending God by you're own self, and as such you can only, currently discuss God, from the "God does not exist camp.

Good talk
Jan.
 
I do. I had a direct experience of Zen enlightenment, which provided me with the knowledge that there is absolutely no god anywhere. But you wouldn't understand this, since you are without Zen.

God Is. Anything you perceive is due to God.
Surely you would've worked that out by now?

Jan.
 
God does not exist as far as you're aware, and God is.
Your position is self-contradictory. You have confirmed that you are talking about objective existence.

On the contrary. I grant both "situations" as accurate.
Your position is self-contradictory. You have confirmed that you are talking about objective existence.

You're the one needs to bring up objective reality. For me God just Is.
Your position is self-contradictory. You have confirmed that you are talking about objective existence.

God doesn't exist as far as you're aware.
Your position is self-contradictory. You have confirmed that you are talking about objective existence.


You are now backpeddling - that what you really meant is that you are referring to the subjective existence of God. Your subjective experience of its existence, and mine.

I am OK with that.

But it leaves your own views as hypocritical. Which is why your case holds no water.
 
Anything you perceive is due to God.
Actually, anything you perceive is due to the Giant Cosmic Unicorn, who exists objectively, but you just can't see him.
Show how my idea is less valid than yours.

Oh, wait: I know this one. The GCU exists in my reality, just not in yours.

I am OK with that too.
 
Back
Top