I'm sorry, but there is no god.
- Thread starter Micholi
- Start date
But we still have no proof of God´s existence or non-existence. And since this site is mostly about facts, it is kinda difficult to draw a conclusion.
For some people like me, the proof of God is in the lotus flower, and our ability to love. But for some people, the lotus flower is just a plant, and love is just an emotion triggered by inner-chemicals from our brain.
So, this thread is meant to be over-done and re-opened, and super-done to non-stopping dimensions.
If only people would realize that the reason they post in this sort of threads is because they are not aware of the truth; and these same people that are un-aware of the truth keep saying they have it all figured out.
Where do I fit in? I guess I´m just a seeker who knows that we don´t know. And the reason that we keep asking and posting, is with the hope of someone saying something that clears our mind from doubt a little bit.
Realizing it is all useless, has lead me so far to one conclusion; asking questions is a game of the ego, and answers are the food of the ego. The real answer is that which don´t explain shit, ´cause right then, your ego didn´t get the food it wanted, and starts loosing power on yourself...
What difference does that make to me? Jesus is a fictional character who had people writing his lines through decades of mythical story telling.
Namby pamby bullcrap.
All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom,
He made their horrid wings.
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.
Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid,
Who made the spikey urchin,
Who made the sharks, He did.
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.
AMEN.
All Things Dull and Ugly - Monty Python.
You are right, I´m not aware of the truth; and if I would be, I wouldn´t be able to put it in words any way...
Notice the beggining of the "Tao Te King":
"The Dao that can be named, is not the eternal Dao."
Meaning: Stop reading right there, ´cause there are no written or spoken answers for the eternal TRUTH.
Right again, although I´m not the fool that says I know the answers.
My advice: don´t listen to a word I say, if it doesn´t match with your truth; everyone is entitled to a different perception of the truth. The path is one for each person, and I don´t post here for knowledgeable answers; I post so I can see the response from people and see how it affects my thoughts... That way is just another way to get to know myself better; that is the path I´m talking about.
I´m sorry to burst your bubble KennyJC, but the fact that you are alive is a divine miracle; and it shows that existence made you worthy of being here in human form. You have a purpose in this life that noone else can perform, otherwise you wouldn´t be here...
"I´m just a seeker who knows that we don´t know"
That is a statement of truth. It is an instance of you declaring that you know what the truth, or answer, is - and an all encompassing statement at that. You go on to state that:
"The real answer.."
Again making a declaration that you know 'the truth'/the answer.
Therefore you are the fool.
Yeah exactly, finally someone understands....except God is never in contact with this material nature, he is the source of all, the source of the highest happiness...
"That which is above is like that which is below..." - Hermes Trismegistus (aka Thot the Atlantean)
"Let thy kingdom come..." - Jesus
If you don´t accept & enjoy life in its totality; then you are in denial of the true nature of God.
Stop and think a moment. In order to know what is going to happen, you need to allow it to happen.
God gives people choices, but He knows already what choices they will make.
In order to know that He must allow it to happen, to allow them to make the choices.
The test must be conducted to its end point.
Flavius Josephus, first century Jewish historian, wrote of Jesus as a real historical figure. [Josephus was not a Christian.]
http://www.carm.org/questions/Josephus.htm
Josephus, first century Jewish historian wrote about Jesus. The life of Jesus is real recorded history.
For the last time, there is no historical person who was resurrected or carried out any of the other 'miracles' in the bible.
I hate to state the obvious, but people seem to lack common sense and take this Jesus guys miracles as a given.
But if god created material nature, then you have just contradicted yourself? He created a life were the food chain requires sentient creatures being eaten alive. There is no way anybody can justify this as a 'good' god.
Utter nonsense.
I have a hot cup of tea sitting right next to me. I know that if I pour it on my head the outcome is going to be a burnt head. I don't need to allow it to happen to know what would happen... and I'm not even omniscient.
To prevent the burning of my head I'm not going to allow it to happen - because I care about my head. god on the other hand has always known that billions of people are going to burn - no, not a slight head burn, but burn for eternity. forever and ever and thus no question of care can ever come into it. If he cared, those destined to burn just wouldn't ever exist. You wouldn't even have earth and death because they're pointless to test. You'd just have a heaven, eternal worship of this being, (for some bizarre reason), and that would be that.
Stop and think for a moment. :bugeye:
Think again.
Give the cup of tea free will, to make a real comparison to people.
The cup of tea might decide to empty itself before you pour it on your head. So, you would not know unless you try it. If the test subject has a free will and power to use it, to do good or evil, you need to run the test to see what he will decide.
I guess the next question would be why we dress such an environment up such as the material world as the abode of enjoyment
God is a just God. He won't sentence someone to hell unless they demonstrate that they deserve it. He must allow them to demonstrate that.
On the judgement day it will be shown why they deserve it, because a test was run and they made the wrong choices.
Likewise for those that go to heaven so that no one can say to God, this or that guy don't deserve to be here. A test was run and according to the choices he made, it is evident that he deserves to be there.
The test must be allowed to run like Jesus said in that parable of the wheat and tares that I posted.
This is one of, if not the most pathetic theist arguments I know of. That this god is somehow being nice or just by allowing his own creation to suffer for eternity with full knowledge before their existence that they will suffer for eternity.
If I knew in advance that if I had a child she would be a heroin addicted, abused, lifelong victim I would decline from having children - because I actually care. One cannot care, knowing the outcome, and allow it to happen. I certainly would prevent it if I could but alas I am not omnipotent. From before any of us existed this being knew that the majority would burn forever and ever because of rules he made and evil beings he made. He created hell, he created satan, he created suffering, he created all these things with an express purpose. He created diseases to kill humans, 'natural' disasters to kill humans.. all these things he created for one sole purpose - the annihilation of mankind.
He never had to.
It is in those 4 words that the value of gods become meaningless. It was a choice, gods free will.. he decided and chose that the best option was for his creation to burn forever if they didn't worship him, (have you ever shown admiration for any other similar form of selfishness?). This was gods free will in action. He chose for billions of people to burn. That speaks for itself.
I just hope that while you're enjoying your alcohol free drink that you're not unfortunate enough to have a wife, child or other loved one burning for eternity because of this being. Tell me how you're going to cope with that knowledge for eternity. The person you love the most is burning. If you're ok with that, man you ain't worth shit.
[edit] What I find amusing is that you label this god "just" while showing no sign of justice. I remember the case of the guy in America that killed 34 women. He raped them, strangled them and dumped their bodies in the river. Then there was the case of Bob, the guy that forgot to pay his TV license.
You see, when caught, the first guy was given the gas chamber. If you did the same to Bob you'd find everyone up in arms about it. Justice - being just, means establishing a different level of punishment for different crimes. No such thing exists with your god - why, you can't even look at a woman with lust or wear clothing of two different materials without facing the exact same punishment as the guy that bonked and killed 27 children. Both of the former "crimes" leave pretty much every single human in existence as guilty - it's about time you gouged your eyes out to prevent you from doing that which is an inherent part of your given nature.
So why does a person that simply does not believe in a god deserve the same punishment as someone that has slaughtered 30 million humans? To be labelled "just" there must be a system of justice. Thus the person that has murdered 30 million can burn, the non-believer should simply have a 10 year mild headache.
No such system exists with your god and thus the word "just" has absolutely no place in discussion. From a biblical perspective you can't even do the natural basics - unavoidable basics such as looking at a woman with lust or calling someone a fool - (something even jesus was guilty of).
Is looking at a woman and thinking "woah she's hot, I could bonk her senseless" really as bad as a guy abusing a 5 year old child? Sorry, where is the justice?
[edit 2] Here's the question.. Would you assert that the actions of a legal system beyond your eyesight is "just"? So for instance these soldiers at Guantanamo Bay that tortured Iraqis.. Was that "just"? Now think of this being that you claim is "just" while people are tortured for eternity. No, much like you it is not there to see it being done, and it is not the perpetrator. Does that make it "just"? No, it does not - especially when it designed and created Guantanamo Bay with the express purpose of torturing Iraqis. You and I are useless, we can't do anything to prevent the torture of these people... Your god supposedly can but chooses not to. "just" my ass.
Last edited: