Yeah, throw that deer tick bit in too. These deer ticks must be stopped! It's for the children!!! Think about the poor children covered in deer ticks!!!!! Is that what you want? We need more hunting to save the children from deerticks.
If you were a psychopath...
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
I have empathy for people and animals that I don't know, but I don't feel responsibility to take time out of the day and consider others' hardships.
Wow, this thread has taken a twist. I do think that hunting, as with any sport, involves a search for an emotional reward--catching your prey, reaching a goal, winning. Since we are dumping the original topic, I would throw out a guess that those who do not hunt might possibly satisfy this need through other avenues.
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
I agree, the pathology of the sociopath is more relevant to one who goes against societal norms rather than being most closely linked to an inherent lack of empathatic reasoning (as it proports to be).
This was the relevance of why hunting was brought up in the first place, for those who feel we've lost track
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heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
Because its sick to enjoy death and the pain of another being,
Isnt that one of the central tennants of our entire moral system - to enjoy the pain of another makes one sick?
If this only applies when dealing with our species doesnt that make somewhat of a mockery of our entire value system and the concept of morality itself?
If youre really saying its only sick to enjoy the death one species (coincidentally your own) out of the millions that exist on our planet then im at a loss to see how this holds up ethically. Id say that view-point is only defensible by invoking same-species preservation.
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It would need be justified by way of diminishing the value of life for that particular critter.
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
Can you rephrase/repeat that please? not sure i understand you.
No problems with killing plants though?
madanthonywayne:
If you look back, you'll see that I did not lead the discussion in this direction. Moreover, your claim that I turn every discussion into an animal rights discussion is just a bit exagerated, don't you think?
It involves hurting and usually killing an innocent, autonomous being for one's own selfish pleasure.
Most moral codes do not condone such self indulgence at the expense of other beings. People have no trouble seeing that it is wrong to hurt or kill another human being for one's own entertainment, yet when it comes to animals they suddenly come across all stupid and uncomprehending. Why?
In the cave man days of yore, hunting was necessary for survival. In modern times, hunting is unnecessary. You can go to the supermarket and hunt for your food there instead.
Does that make it right? (Can you say "appeal to nature"?)
You've responded to your own argument. Thanks for saving me the effort.
Does a wolf kill solely for pleasure? Is the wolf able to make moral decisions at all? Now consider the human.
As for the gun or the car, your implication that all the hunted animals would be killed accidentally anyway if people did not hunt is patently ludicrous and not worthy of serious discussion.
Deer did not evolve to "be hunted". They evolved to escape from hunters. There's no such thing as "natural prey". No sentient animal wants to be eaten.
Can't you see how silly these kinds of arguments are? I mean, just think for a moment before you post.
They go out of their way to kill. Did you forget about that part?
Why?
If you look back, you'll see that I did not lead the discussion in this direction. Moreover, your claim that I turn every discussion into an animal rights discussion is just a bit exagerated, don't you think?
It involves hurting and usually killing an innocent, autonomous being for one's own selfish pleasure.
Most moral codes do not condone such self indulgence at the expense of other beings. People have no trouble seeing that it is wrong to hurt or kill another human being for one's own entertainment, yet when it comes to animals they suddenly come across all stupid and uncomprehending. Why?
In the cave man days of yore, hunting was necessary for survival. In modern times, hunting is unnecessary. You can go to the supermarket and hunt for your food there instead.
Does that make it right? (Can you say "appeal to nature"?)
You've responded to your own argument. Thanks for saving me the effort.
Does a wolf kill solely for pleasure? Is the wolf able to make moral decisions at all? Now consider the human.
As for the gun or the car, your implication that all the hunted animals would be killed accidentally anyway if people did not hunt is patently ludicrous and not worthy of serious discussion.
Deer did not evolve to "be hunted". They evolved to escape from hunters. There's no such thing as "natural prey". No sentient animal wants to be eaten.
Can't you see how silly these kinds of arguments are? I mean, just think for a moment before you post.
They go out of their way to kill. Did you forget about that part?
Why?
The hunter chooses the hunt rather than focus on the significance of the animal's life. Again, I think it is the thrill of the hunt for which the hunter searches and not the animal. I doubt the hunter dwells in the morality of the hunt.
Is that a symptom of a psychopath? The ability to kill without thinking of such things?
They don't? Most of the world's people eat meat of some kind on a daily basis. Surely you're not saying that all of those people have moral codes against it, yet do it anyway??? If so, "moral code" is a rather weird term to use, ain't it?
Yeah, so we pay others to do the "dirty work" for us ....thus we can wash our hands of the blood, huh? Interesting moral values, ain't it. "Killing is wrong! .....but if you kill it and butcher it and put it in neat packages, then it's okay." Geez, we're a really, really strange fuckin' animal, ain't we?
Do you kill rats and cockroaches, James? Mosquitoes? Flies? ...any other kind of creature? If so, aren't you being a tad hippo-critical in your arguments?
Baron Max
Yeah, it is. But it's also usually reserved for the killing/harming of humans, not animals.
Baron Max
Maybe it's not sick, maybe it's normal. You see, most people think death and pain is tasty a least and enjoyable at worst. This means most people actually do cause pain for fun, sadism is normal.
Yeah, so we pay others to do the "dirty work" for us ....thus we can wash our hands of the blood, huh? Interesting moral values, ain't it. "Killing is wrong! .....but if you kill it and butcher it and put it in neat packages, then it's okay." Geez, we're a really, really strange fuckin' animal, ain't we?
Do you kill rats and cockroaches, James? Mosquitoes? Flies? ...any other kind of creature? If so, aren't you being a tad hippo-critical in your arguments?
Baron Max
Everyone kills, everyone has killed, there is no one here who can avoid it. The question is why?
Most people do not enjoy killing, and thats the difference. Some people enjoy it, it's a thrill!
heliocentric
Registered Senior Member
I think youre trying to highlight a double-standard which doesnt even exist, plants dont have a central nervous system, nerve-endings and a brain with which to subjectively experience pain. They do not have the capacity to suffer as basic organisms as it is not a necessary aspect of their surival.
That raises another thought. How many other species kill their own? Is it as common with deer or rabbits as it is with men? There must be parallels between all.
BTW: All of this talk about meat... I had to stalk, kill, and eat a burger. I discovered that the psychopath behind the mask is... Burger King.
So just because here's no brain or nervous system, it ok to kill other beings for your personal gain? What about the Superman type? If they can't feel from the neck down, is it ok to eat their arms and legs? They aren't ever going to use them again. They can't feel it. Are there any psychological side effects that result from losing legs that you don't use? Then what about vegitables that have no feeling? Should we eat them?
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If a female rabbit does not remove the offspring away from the male rabbit soom after the birth, the male will eat the young rabbits. Try raising rabbits, this will happen. The same in hampsters, fish, and mice. Even lions have been known to get 'jealous' of younger lion cubs and kill them. Chimps also kill there own. Deer will abandon a young fawn if they sense it has a developmental problem. Its the way of the world, of life an death. The strongest of the species survives and thrives off of the weaker ones.
Hunting 'seasons were developed as a check and balance to keep deer herd, and other prey, from over populating AND from being over hunted.
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/whatis.htm
scroll down to about half page. This is where i live.