If you don't believe in evolution, you also can't believe in...

[Proud_Muslim]

Being muslim is a state of being...It's not a label. That's why god said that we must die as muslims, in a state of Islam. In a state of peace and submission. I would feel like a hypocrite if I keep repeating to myself that I'm a muslim. My state of being must reflect my Islam, not the repetitious assertion to me and others that I'm a muslim.

Great, I am seeing amazing progress, well said.

Me saying that I'm a muslim or moemena doesn't do anything to my case. God will decide wether my life is deserving of the title muslima.

In the eyes of God, saying LA ILAH ILA ALLAH, MUHAMMAD RASOULU ALLAH ( the declaration of faith ) is confirmation of your Islam.

Why is that a problem?? Covering the head by your admittance is only for strange men....God sees my private parts, so why do I need to cover my hair infront of god when I'm alone???? Please explain this point to me, because I have a hard time accepting that I need to cover myself in the company of god.

covering your head during prayer is an act of worship to your God, it is a sign of respect that you prepare yourself for this prayer ( making wudu for example )

They are very cute indeed. You would like my 4 year old daughter very much if you meet her, despite the Hijab of course. She is pure, innocent, intelligent, and best of all, she's grounded in her thoughts about god. When my grandma died a few month ago, I was in tears and my 4 year old daughter was the most wise to say "But mama, grandma went back to her real home with god, just like we all will go back to god when we die". I asked her what does god look like, and she said, he looks like nothing else.

Masha allah, may Allah protect her from evil eyes and from any harm, for 4 years old to think like that about God indicates advanced level of intelligence...I have no doubt about you dear sister being intelligent person, jeeeee, directing your energy and intelligence at haters,liers and islamophobes will make them pee in their trousers !!

Don't get too comfortable, noone is safe...Everyone is in danger zone until god saves them.

who has an atom of faith in ALLAH ALMIGHTY in his/her heart is safe as long as he/she strive for good in this world.

I do feel the pain for a lot of the muslims, but the muslims that I feel pain for do not include the hypocrite leaders like Mr. Arafat...So don't ask me to support Arafat, Mubarak, and Assad, just because they are muslims.

I am not asking you to show sympathy for those dictators, SCREW THEM ALL, they are all hypocrites, liars and indeed FIGHT ISLAM...I am asking you to show sympathy to those wounded needy Muslims all over the world.

Your average muslim is indeed my brother and sister and I stopped watching TV all together because I was crying too much, but there is nothing to do, because muslims must change their leadership first.

It is not about leadership only, it is about US, MUSLIMS, our unity, after all where these leaders are coming from ?? they are from us...I will tell you a story that will stunn you:

The Romans who were occupying SYRIA before ISLAM came to my country one time raided a muslim village in Syria and took a muslim woman a hostage after raping her, this woman screamed WA MU3TASEMAH !! she was calling AL MU3TASEM, the khalifa of the Muslims at that time...her scream reached AL MUETASEM, for the sake of this ONE muslim women, he prepared an ARMY that stretched from the city of Aleppo( Halab) in the north to Damascus the capital of the muslim empire ( around 360 KM ) and went north and he CRUSHED the romans once and for all and freed this woman !!! back then we were the masters of the universe because we were united, because a single Muslim woman pain was enough to raise an army that stretched 360 KM !!!

Perhaps you are qualified, but you're not always right....at least accept that.

Of course I am not always right, I dont know everything, I still need a lot to learn, I am only 27 Years old.

So what do you want me to do...give me a clear example? DO you want me to give up my life and family, move back to the middleeast and cry with the rest of the millions?

NOOOOOOO, Stay where you are, you can do far much more in the west than in the Muslim world.

I'm much better served here, at least I have noticed that everywhere that I have went, jobs, ect....people have never disrespected me or talked bad about Islam infront of me...I can't control what they do behind my back, but infront of me, they are at least afraid.

I am sure, you have very strong personality, this is the true character of a muslim woman, to be strong and able to face haters and liers when they spread lies against Islam.

You being there is in itself a dawa work.

I agree on the first part, but the second part doesn't mean anything to me....If my Islam is healthy, then that's all I have to worry about, if someone else have a wounded Islam or distorting islam, it's not my business...I see Atheists, Satanits everyday...I can't answer every dog's bark, my life would be consumed by failure.

I agree, I dont care about others faiths, I care about ALL MUSLIMS faith and iman, Islam is like mosaic, every part of it must be perfect and I agree with you that we should start with ourselves.

Please PM. I'm not a member of anything. And I out of all people fought so much with Ghassan Kanafani, formerly known as Alif Lam Mim, and before that known as Allah Mathematics. Islam does mean submition to Allah the one and testifying that prophet Muhamed is his last prophet and that the Quran is my book.

Alhamdo llah, I am very happy to hear that.

Why are you judging my surrounding? In my view my surroundings is very Islamic. Don't be stuck on stupidities like the Hijab....I know that you are stuck on that subject, but that's not the only criteria to Islam.

I am not stuck on this issue and I agree the Hijab is not the only criteria of Islam, true...but I am posting about it because the BIGOTS are fighting it, you see, I have no right to impose it on you, you are free not to wear it, but if you choose to wear it and they prevented you then I will FIGHT them for your right to wear it.

It's a mere recommendation.

It is an obligation, ask any imam or scholar and they will confirm that.

When I was young living in Egypt, I had many girlfriends who wore the Hijab. Many of them wore the Hijab as a symbol of virginity, yet they all had premarital sex.

you cant use isolated cases and generalize them on the whole community, will you accept me telling you I knew some girls who dont wear Hijab and yet they had premarital sex and so all girls who dont wear hijab are whores ???

Do you know what is the number one surgery in Egypt...Restoration of virginity.

I am sure there are some cases, but dont make it look as it is a phenomena because it is NOT.

They all ended up married with cheating and lying foundations...I don't have that, I was in sports all my life with little time for boys, and while my pictures in gymnastic suit was all over Egyptian papers, my body was as protected as could be.

You see, it was about YOU, and THEM....dont blame the Hijab...a whore can wear the hijab but that wont change the fact that she is a whore..it is all to do with the person itself.

What do you think about this Muhajaba virgin girl?

There are millions of Muslim girls who wear the Hijab and who dont behave like that, what do you think about them ????

You are bringing special cases and trying to generalize them and blame the HIJAB for it !!! it is like those bigots who want to ban the hijab because for them, it threatens the SECULARISM of the ENTIRE FRENCH NATION !! maybe tomorrow it will become WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION AS WELL !!

I learned two things....Strive for success and pronounce that GOD IS GREAT..Allahu Akbar. That's the real prayer of Islam, not the repititious nodding actions. I look up in the sky and I say Allahu Akbar, my kids are born, I say Allahu Akbar, my research works, I say Allahu akbar, What else is there to learn??

What Allahu Akbar reall means ?

These were warranted for, did you forget that you started the evil by saying that I married my husband for a greencard????

I did not say that, I was merely asking, I should not do so but we were trading the insults, you know !! anyway, I take it back...are you happy now ?

Don't go there...I know you won't like it. I don't know how to hide my poison in honey, my venom is concentrate.

Oh God.......I am shaking in my chair !!

Why should I listen to her? That's very distracting, I'm trying to listen to you

I appreciate that you want to listen to me, but Andrea Bocelli is in fact a MAN, Italian singer, he is blind but his songs are full of light, the light of life:

http://www.andreabocelli.it/

Ok, here is another one I like to listen to , she is SARAH BRIGHTMAN:

http://www.sarah-brightman.com/frame.html

Or this American-Greek composer: YANNI:

http://www.yanni.com/site/music.html

I hope one day we can meet, then, you wont believe that the person in front of you is in fact proud muslim...you have grave misconceptions about me.

 

[spidergoat]

I am learning so much, PM listens to Yanni, egyptian women are re-virginizing themselves, and Indian women go for butt sex. Please don't let the topic of evolution interfere with this enlightening discussion.

 

[Michael]

Okay...everyone is going on about adaptation, but please look at the second law of thermodynamics. Doesn't it say that basically everything falls into chaos under the law of entropy? If this is the case, then something is wrong. Either the second law of thermodynmics is wrong or the theory of natural selection, which some call evolution. Why? Because natural selection works towards a betterment or buildup of a species.
Please explain? Thanks

Firstly and obviously, animals don’t get their energy directly from solar radiation and (maybe less obviously) animal bodies create more entropy than they preserve. That is, they consume higher ordered molecules (sugars, proteins, lipids, etc..) and produce CO2 and H2O (much less ordered molecules) and thereby create more chaos then their bodies preserve with their “orderedness”. Obviously if an animal stopped eating that ordered body isn’t going to last long. Only as long as reserves of higher ordered molecules in the body remain to create more chaos. Here on Earth, the second law of thermodynamics is not broken even though we see all this order because the sun is an enormous amount of energy and there is a species of life (aka Plant) that utilized that energy directly to create order – i.e.: the sugar, protein, and lipid molecules you eat. So it all really is as one would predict from the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

 

[Tiassa]

Well it certainly seems you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

Wrong. Actually I slept shortly after that post.

I don't give a shit if they're popular or not, there's no need to interrupt this thread because of your personal feelings of the thread starter.

Get your facts straight.

You sound like a really bitter person. I feel for you.

How about compared to someone who would prefer to see humanity destroyed rather than put some effort into his own life?

It must be disheartening to make threads which are not very popular, but it still leaves little point in butting into this one, making accusations that others are invoking flames, when your posts are doing nothing other than that.

Given the factual absurdity of that position, there's not much to say to it.

Someday, you ought to compare what you're saying to observable reality. It might be helpful.

Just a suggestion.

Flores and I have been discussing the nature of pigs, which although might be seemingly worthless, is still interesting

Yes, but didn't you remind me that there's a topic going on here while refusing to consider my response to it and then asserting that your point was something so different from the questions that you asked that you skipped any substantive response?

Now, Dr Lou's original post might not have been entirely accurate, or even worthwhile, but threads "evolve", yet you seem more interested in having a go at Dr Lou, than you do in the actual progressing topic of this thread.

(1) The accuracy of the topic post isn't so much a concern as its intent to provoke; it is inflammatory. Useless topic posts are a dime a dozen around here.

(2) Threads evolve, yet you are refusing that evolution of this thread.

(3) Check your facts. Dr. Lou sought me out.

You have your reasons to find fault with him, and that's fine, but why come into this thread solely to have a pop at Dr Lou?

Check your facts.

Even going so far as to say you're tired of people invoking stupid and inflammatory debates when your post does exactly the same thing. Your usage of words like moron, f@cking, making statements about peoples intelligence and so on will invoke stupid debates all by themselves.

Well ... that's up to other people. In the meantime, forgive me for not being polite and lying to people by telling them that this sort of topic is either intelligent or useful.

I said to you: "wouldn't it seem more of value to start a 'real' topic to tell everyone how you feel about threads with no topic?"

I stand by that

Stand by it all you want. That's fine. However, I'm curious how you think your point stands up in reflection of history. In practice, such "real" topics as you describe just lead to the same sort of crap. You should look a few of those discussions up, regardless of who posts them.

Anything else you would like me to say, before you once again start up with the insults?

Actually, I would just hope that you would check your facts.

You complain about my references to people's intelligence. Let's take a look at you, then: Is your post based on a mess of unsubstantial presumptions that do not reflect reality on purpose or by accident?

Either way, it doesn't speak highly of your intelligence. Accidentally? Well, be more observant. Intentional? Well, get your disrespectful priorities straight.

Flip a coin, let me know: Are your posts accidentally inaccurate or intentionally dishonest?

 

[Michael]

Ok, shall I give a hint? Homo sapiens Neanderthals and Homo sapiens sapiens had a common ancestor.
And your proof is ???
Another hint? No, not every specimen of Homo sapiens sapiens evolved from homo sapiens Neanderthals. No, they had a common ancestor. [/COLOR]

And your proof is ???

You see, I don’t accept rants and general statements, I want proofs.

You do not want proof, you want to believe the way you were raised to believe and anything outside of that you subjectively, and vehemently, reject. Which is fine. Your rejection, nor my acceptance, of evolution will not change the fact that evolution exists.

If you were to hold your own beliefs to this so-called "proof" standard, I fear you’d rapidly join the ranks of atheists

Ontological rebuttal:

The ontological argument is based on bad grammar. It confuses a grammatical predicate with a real one, hypothetical existence with real existence. It is no proof of Gods existence to say that nothing can be “called” god unless it really exists, because it does not follow from saying this that there is anything that “is” God.

In other words, nothing can be defined into existences. From the definition of X, it does not follow that X exists.

The First Cause Argument rebuttal:

Also called the Called the cosmological argument. First of all there may not be a first cause nor is it a certainty there was a Big Bang, secondly following your argument that there was I can simply state that this “first cause” does not need to be a conscious anything. Thirdly, this universe may be one of many in a long line of created universes. And my favorite, this universe is one of infinitely many, multiverse, with (what I’d like to think) a Proud Muslim somewhere out there that finally “saw the light” and became an atheists. As a matter of fact - it’s a certainty!

Of course, you may be right and this “first cause” could be “God” that did created the universe and then I can say God simply “disappeared into nothingness” as after the cause there is nothing to say that the first cause needs to remain – that’ temporal reasoning for you, damn cause and effect! That is unless you want to talk about the ontological argument which can be resolved by simply looking skyward

The Argument from Design rebuttal
1) Whether you like to admit it or not, Evolution is a fact, and supersedes the old Watchmaker’s Argument. And, unlike the Design argument, theories on how the fact of Evolution has occurred are actually useful and give us predictable answers to many of our questions about nature. I guess “God did it” just doesn’t really help much in science?

The argument from design focuses on the fact that the universe is fit for human habitation

That’s not true, the argument about the universe being fit is called that Anthropic Teleological Argument which is of course not a proof and moreover as physicists delve into the nature of the universe/miltiverse I’m afraid it’s days as a theory are also numbered.

The Moral Argument Rebuttal:

This is the weakest of them all. Look at the morality of the God you worship and you can flush this one down the drain. Haa Just teasing.
Seriously it goes like such,
1 If absolute moral laws exits, then God exists
2 Absolute morals laws exist’
3 Therefore God exists.

I’ll leave it with petition principii

For a good introduction into these arguments and why we can not, on the question of Gods existence, say one way or the other see: The Question of God: An Introduction and Sourcebook

What do you think of Socrates’ question: Is something good because God desires it? Or does God desire it because it’s good?

 

[Michael]

You forget that ONLY Islam is the religion that honours jews and christians and consider them the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, this is a point of the side of Islam as a tolerant religion, we dont condemn everyone to hell, we dont have monopoly over heavn unlike christians and jews, we believe OTHERS who are not Muslims will go to heave as well.

I'm curious. And just what does the Koran say about how you should treat people who believe in many Gods, or ancestral worship like Shinto, or what of Hindism or Atheism?

If you’re going to take the moral high ground I think Buddhism is the religion for you as it is accepting of ALL peoples faiths not JUST Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

 

[SnakeLord]

Wrong. Actually I slept shortly after that post.

Fascinating.

Get your facts straight

About what exactly? That I don't give a shit, your threads aren't popular, or you could have started another thread instead of interrupting this one?

How about compared to someone who would prefer to see humanity destroyed rather than put some effort into his own life?

Whoever this person is that would prefer to see humanity destroyed, it does in no way detract from my point. You sound bitter, end of story.

Someday, you ought to compare what you're saying to observable reality. It might be helpful.

Someday you ought to stop talking bollocks.

See, we can both play that game.

However, just out of interest- what exactly do you have a problem with?

Yes, but didn't you remind me that there's a topic going on here while refusing to consider my response to it and then asserting that your point was something so different from the questions that you asked that you skipped any substantive response?

I didn't refuse to consider it, It was just hard to discern any worth from under all that apparent bitterness. And how did my point ever differ?

From my first post to you: "Wouldn't it seem of more value to start a 'real' topic telling everyone how you feel about threads with no topic? Just a suggestion."

From my response: "You can say all this in your own thread."

Although I apologise that the words aren't all completely identical, it does come down to the same thing.

You have stated that the starter thread was inflammatory and even went to say the poster should be banned. You went on to use all kinds of flagrant insults in order to somehow make your point seem valid, but all it did was show the real worthlessness of it. It's like telling a man smoking is bad for him while you puff away on a cigar.

I didn't agree to much of what was said in that post, but I didn't feel the need to go into a tangent about it right here. If I had have viewed it quite as seriously as you have, I would have sent a pm to James about it. If I had this urge to play "forum mother", I would have tried to get the point across with a little more tact, and a little less aggression.

That would include avoiding general stereotyping:

"After all, consistency is too much to ask of atheists at Sciforums."

Insults to the person you have a problem with:

"Perhaps you'd like to stop dancing around like a frightened monkey and just come out and deal with it?"

"Or would you rather continue mucking around like a sulking brat?"

Need I really go on? I mean c'mon, would it really have been such a burden just to pm the moderator if you felt that strongly about this thread, or indeed to make a new thread saying how you feel about threads such as this one? Instead, you decided to drag this worthless thread even further down the shitter.

Was that 'substantive' enough for you?

(1) The accuracy of the topic post isn't so much a concern as its intent to provoke; it is inflammatory. Useless topic posts are a dime a dozen around here.

In the case of a problem such as this... pm the moderator. I will also ask, if they're a dime a dozen, why I haven't seen you throwing a hissy fit like this on all the others? His deliverance of his statement could have been far better, I would agree, but PM and others managed well enough to refute and debunk his statements in good old fashioned debating style, while you seem more intent on bashing the poster.

(2) Threads evolve, yet you are refusing that evolution of this thread.

I clicked a 'stop' button somewhere? Don't think so. My suggestion was that starting your own thread about your distaste for threads such as this one would serve more use.

(3) Check your facts. Dr. Lou sought me out.

I've read the entire post word for word. I suggest you go and do the same.

Check your facts.

Oh my apologies, you came here to state that "consistency is too much to ask from atheists.."

Well, if I had have known is was all about generalisation, I never would have said anything.. :bugeye:

forgive me for not being polite and lying to people by telling them that this sort of topic is either intelligent or useful.

That's your perspective of it, and you're not really in the position to be answering that for everyone. Seeings as you regard this thread in such light, wouldn't it be of more value to start your own thread? (or pm a moderator)

Politeness and lying are two different things, Tiassa. You can tell people this thread is useless and lacks intelligence without calling them frightened monkeys, brats, morons and so on. Failing that, you could always start your own thread to voice your dismay at threads such as this one, which lack usefulness and intelligence.

Stand by it all you want. That's fine. However, I'm curious how you think your point stands up in reflection of history. In practice, such "real" topics as you describe just lead to the same sort of crap. You should look a few of those discussions up, regardless of who posts them.

Ok so we've established that new threads cause crap, butting in to the middle of a thread just to inform people they have no intelligence also causes crap... so that would leave pm'ing the moderator. Problem solved. If you knew it was going to cause crap, from your obvious experience with this kind of thing, why did you bother in the first place?

Actually, I would just hope that you would check your facts.

Oh I do, for the most part. Obviously some things I can't such as your apparent bitterness, or your need to play forum mummy. These are what I observe from you on this forum, but I can't state them as facts.

You complain about my references to people's intelligence. Let's take a look at you, then: Is your post based on a mess of unsubstantial presumptions that do not reflect reality on purpose or by accident?

Or perhaps you're just having a problem with this font. Don't panic, I can change it. Oh btw, once you're done "looking" at everyone else, try looking a little closer to home.

Either way, it doesn't speak highly of your intelligence.

Hey, not only are you bitter, you're also predictable. Why bother wasting kilobytes when you might aswell just proceed with some giant IQ test tournament? Or we could just whip our dicks out and get it over with.

We're done here, you have nothing to say Tiassa. Just one big fart in the breeze.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

I'd like to know what either of you disagree with in the first post. You can disagree with the tone, the belittling of anyone that doesn't understand, but there is nothing to disagree with in regards to the content.

I'm not really bothered by tiassa having a problem with this because as far as I can tell he basically just wishes I was more polite, hardly a significant issue, even though he tries to pretend it is.
I am a little disturbed with tiassa's ass licking of pm and the islamic faith in general.
No you are not merely "not hating" muslims, I haven't seen anyone in here hating muslims, if thats all you were doing you wouldn't be sticking out, you're overly protecting them and became angry when facts were aknowledged that contradicted their beliefs, you even went so far as labelling this as "inflammatory".
Sorry for giving people who don't believe in facts, facts. How careless of me
I don't believe I should be held accountable if they find facts insulting.
I admittedly did have a condescending tone, so shoot me, ignorance irritates me.

Oh and before you say it, I did read your posts, if you think I'm missing a point make it clearer. You're not having trouble understanding me I presume, I am having trouble understanding you(if there truely is more, less trivial aspects, to your outrage than I presume). Are my comprehension skills lacking? Possibly, But they're adequate, and if you were as good as your rep suggests there wouldn't be a problem.

And I thought the proposal to ban me was going to be made "today" as in the day you posted that, who are you? allah? Are your days a thousand human years? Do it already.

 

[spudbud21]

Spudbud

An excellent point, but I think a factor complicating this discussion is one that transcends Sciforums and recalls the Scopes trial, at least. So many religionists in America, at least, see evolution constructed as a threat; their definition of the debate goes all the way back to the beginning, especially as Darwin's work was well-received by atheists.

Think of the phrase, "God is dead." How many times have people said that? And yet, despite the heritage of the phrase, the question, "Is God Dead?" on the cover of Time magazine or some such thrust the idea into public consideration and it's been an overinflated discussion bearing moral, ethical, and emotional implications ever since.

Finding a way to phrase evolution in the dialect of any specific religion can be difficult. It's why some folks who believe God created the heavens and the earth have no problem with evolution; it meshes with their understanding of God.

That's a great point but what I mean which is a completely different subject do you think there is a G-d?

 

[James R]

crazymikey:

I think it's quite an extraordinary claim to say Islam is a scientific religion.

Then it's a good thing I didn't say that, isn't it? What I said was that Islam is not an anti-scientific religion. Many scientists are Muslims. Science and Islam are not fundamentally incompatible. Neither are science and Christianity, for that matter.

 

[James R]

PM:

Muslims dont believe in Evolution, you failed to support this claim with any proof.

I find it strange that I have to educate you about your own faith. I'll extract a few points from an article, the full version of which you can find here:

The Muslim Responses to Evolution

The point the article makes is that among Muslims, there are three basic schools of thought, or groups of believers:

1. Those who believe that evolution is totally contradictory and incompatible with the Islamic teachings. This group believes in a literal, or fundamentalist interpretation of the Quran and Hadith.
2. Those who totally except Darwin's theory of evolution (e.g. see Dr.Abdul Wadood's book “The Phenomena of Nature in the Quran and Sunnah” in which he completely derives the evolutionary stages from different verses of the Holy Quran.).
3. Moderate Muslims who relate certain features of the theory of evolution to the teachings of Islam (especially the Quran) (see, for example, Hossein al-Jisr, al-Asfahani, Dr.Mohammad Iqbal, Dr.Inayatullah Mashriqi, Dr.Ahman Afzal , Dr.Israr Ahmed, Dr.Absar Ahmad).

From the Quran:

“We made every living thing from water, will they not believe?” (21:30)
"He created you in stages” (Wallah-o-Khalaqaqum Atwara ,71:14)
"Allah has caused you to grow as a growth from the earth" (Nuh 71:17)
"He brought you forth from the earth and settled you therein" (Hud 11:61)
"He fashioned you in stages" (Nuh 7:14)
"He created man of fermented clay dried tinkling hard like earth ware" (Ar-Rahman 55:14).
"He fashioned man from fermented clay dried tinkling hard" (A.Hijr 15:26).
"It is He who created man from water" (Al-Furqan 25:54).

[size=+1]"Allah is the one God) who made all things He created excellent; and He began the creation of man from clay. Then He made his offspring from the extract of base fluid; then He fashioned and breathed into him of His Spirit; and gave you hearing and sight and the faculty of inferring. And yet how little are the thanks you offer!" Qaliluma ma Tashkuroon (Al-Quran, 32:7-9)[/size]

I will now respond to your other comments, PM:

Islam is indeed not anti scientific faith, but who told you evolution is scientific anyway ??

Ask any biologist.

You see James, you look at HATE differently from how I look at it, maybe because we came from 2 different cultures.

Perhaps so, or perhaps you're just very defensive about your beliefs.

I dont hate the jews, I hate the zionists, and ZIONISTS ARE NOT JEWS, JEWS ARE NOT ZIONISTS.

Then next time you refer to "FOX JEWS", I expect you will be careful to say "FOX ZIONISTS". I'll be watching you, PM. It would be terrible to see you labelled a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

This is my E-JIHAD against hate, lies and bigotry, in such circumstances, JIHAD becomes a DUTY on every single adult Muslim( man and woman ) and this E-jihad is as important as the real jihad on the ground defending the Muslim land from occupation and invaders.

Jihad is an internal stuggle, PM. It is a struggle against oneself, not against others.

I am not expecting everyone to think the same as me, but I am expecting them NOT to be hypocrties when it comes to Islam and Muslims...I notice here and indeed in the real world that it is ok to slander and bash Islam and Muslims, but it is a major crime even to mention the word JEW..so I am here to expose this nonesense about Islam and bury it to rest forever.

It is not ok to slander and bash anybody, Muslim or Jew.

 

[Tiassa]

SnakeLord

It occurs to me that I could simply repeat myself. For at least the third time in one instance.

And I did, in for the third time. I consider your changing your point in order to avoid certain issues rather rude and childish.

About what exactly? That I don't give a shit, your threads aren't popular, or you could have started another thread instead of interrupting this one?

Try reading the posts. for starters. I mean, what's the point of repeating myself if you're not paying any attention? Nonetheless:

• "I don't give a shit if they're popular or not, there's no need to interrupt this thread because of your personal feelings of the thread starter."

Get your facts straight: I did not "interrupt this thread because of (my) personal feelings (toward) the thread starter."

• "It must be disheartening to make threads which are not very popular, but it still leaves little point in butting into this one, making accusations that others are invoking flames, when your posts are doing nothing other than that."

Get your facts straight: I did not butt into this topic, "making accusations that others are invoking flames ...."

• "You have your reasons to find fault with him, and that's fine, but why come into this thread solely to have a pop at Dr Lou?"

Get your facts straight: I did not "come into this thread solely to have a pop at Dr. Lou."

And that's just one of your posts. You don't like me or what I have to say? Fine with me. But at least have the common decency, if you're going to address me at all, of remaining within the bounds of observable reality insofar as the three points of yours I listed--from just one post--cannot be factually established. Go on, try to prove any one of those three points of yours. I dare you. Double-dog dare you. Entertain me, or at least make your points from a foundation that you can establish in some allegation of fact.

Someday you ought to stop talking bollocks.

See, we can both play that game.

Actually, "that game" isn't the same game.

I can base my advice to compare what you're saying to observable reality on the demonstrable fact that you are describing the history of this topic erroneously.

You base your tat about bollocks on a foundation that is demonstrably a fantasy.

However, just out of interest- what exactly do you have a problem with?

See the Get Your Facts Straight section above.

I didn't refuse to consider it, It was just hard to discern any worth from under all that apparent bitterness. And how did my point ever differ?

Are you serious? Oh, that's right, you don't give a shit. No wonder you keep needing things repeated to you. However, why do you give enough of a shit to bother with these posts in the first place?

It seems to me that I would be repeating myself a third time, and yet you have failed to respond substantially. But you wrote at one point:

There is a topic here, although I guess you have no interest in it. As such I question why you're spending such time and energy to get your feelings and opinions out, (just like everyone else), in the middle of this non-existant topic. Wouldn't it seem of more value to start a 'real' topic telling everyone how you feel about threads with no topic? Just a suggestion.

You made a declaration, wondered about something, and asked a question directly.

I responded by advising you what was wrong with the declaration from two directions: the topic post is an utter joke, undermined by its own failures, and the entirety of the inflammatory nature of the topic that existed well before I set foot in here.

You then changed your point from, There is a topic here, although I guess you have no interest in it, to, You can say all this in your own thread. And you ducked legitimate issues.

You then asked a question, to which I responded. Would you like me to summarize the process of summarizing and repeating myself that came next?

I answered your questions, you disrespected that to the degree of changing your ... uh ... "point" . . . in order to avoid addressing the issues I put forth, and then proceed to explain yourself in such a manner reaffirming that your harassment of me is clearly invested in a fantasy that you cannot support in the history of this topic. And in there you resort to sarcastic pity, as well.

You never had anything to say, SnakeLord. He who smelled it dealt it.

 

[Tiassa]

And I thought the proposal to ban me was going to be made "today" as in the day you posted that, who are you?

Have patience. And if you really want me to include a ban proposal, I certainly can. Otherwise, I intend to use the occasion toward the betterment of Sciforums. Unlike your topic post, I intend to base my argument on observable facts. Let's hope you can do better than--

but there is nothing to disagree with in regards to the content

--which is bigoted trash.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Ask any biologist.

Yes. evolution is scientific. Moreover evolution is the framework for most of the current biological thought.

 

[Tiassa]

I've read the entire post word for word.

Which post?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

PM I never saw a reply, so maybe I missed it, so therefore a kind of repost.

You claimed that evolution was refuted here:
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/origin_of_man_09.html

On this page they quote a nature press release in which they supposedly published the Latest Evidence: Sahelanthropus tchadensis and The Missing Link That Never Was.

The goal of this website is to refute darwinism.

I had looked up the original reference for you since you don't seem to read original material. Just websites made by 'authorities' and such.

The original nature press realese was here:

http://www.nature.com/nsu/020708/020708-12.html

Now tell me where in this article darwinism is refuted.

It isn't. The authors of the website basically lied (I think that this is a sin). Now a sane man would start thinking now. If I quote one website full of lies are my other sources also trying to mislead me? Have I been a sheep?

Well, let's hear it. Did you find evidence that evolution is refuted other than from hearsay?

 

[crazymikey]

crazymikey:



Then it's a good thing I didn't say that, isn't it? What I said was that Islam is not an anti-scientific religion. Many scientists are Muslims. Science and Islam are not fundamentally incompatible. Neither are science and Christianity, for that matter.

If IsLAM is not anti-scientific, then it's not scientific? Umm....ok

I would construe any belief system that does not operate on observations and logic, to be anti-scientific. Propounding God, Satan, angels, serpants, demons IS anti-scientific. I do not use the term unscientific. As it is is largely a belief system that challenges science. Although in the modern age, religion has come to terms with science, and integrated parts of it into its system quite conveniantly. In the origin of these religion, this certainly was not the case, and science was excluded from religion, and scientists were ridiculed and punished. Thus to me, science and most religions are mutually exclusive.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

PM:

I find it strange that I have to educate you about your own faith.

How considerate you are !! Thank you so much James...

I'll extract a few points from an article, the full version of which you can find here:
The Muslim Responses to Evolution

It is worth noting James that your site does not represent main stream Islam but rather the Hazara sect ( an offshot from the shia sect ).

The point the article makes is that among Muslims, there are three basic schools of thought, or groups of believers:

The Article does not represent Muslims or main stream ISLAM, so their classification of these groups is invalid, they want to be classified as those who believe in evolution so that they might be known.

From the Quran:

“We made every living thing from water, will they not believe?” (21:30)
"He created you in stages” (Wallah-o-Khalaqaqum Atwara ,71:14)
"Allah has caused you to grow as a growth from the earth" (Nuh 71:17)
"He brought you forth from the earth and settled you therein" (Hud 11:61)
"He fashioned you in stages" (Nuh 7:14)
"He created man of fermented clay dried tinkling hard like earth ware" (Ar-Rahman 55:14).
"He fashioned man from fermented clay dried tinkling hard" (A.Hijr 15:26).
"It is He who created man from water" (Al-Furqan 25:54).

True, all the above is true, but did not you notice the word CREATION in all these verses James ?? We Muslims believe in evolution AFTER creation.

[size=+1]"Allah is the one God) who made all things He created excellent; and He began the creation of man from clay. Then He made his offspring from the extract of base fluid; then He fashioned and breathed into him of His Spirit; and gave you hearing and sight and the faculty of inferring. And yet how little are the thanks you offer!" Qaliluma ma Tashkuroon (Al-Quran, 32:7-9)[/size]

Ture, again, did not you notice the words CREATED, MADE, BEGAN THE CREATION....ETC

Perhaps so, or perhaps you're just very defensive about your beliefs.

Yes I am...the reason is because Islam is under attack.

Then next time you refer to "FOX JEWS", I expect you will be careful to say "FOX ZIONISTS". I'll be watching you, PM. It would be terrible to see you labelled a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

Sure...

Jihad is an internal stuggle, PM. It is a struggle against oneself, not against others.

Exactly, this is what Jihad is all about, but when Islam or Muslims or the Muslim land is under occupation and aggression, the jihad turn into self defense war...

It is not ok to slander and bash anybody, Muslim or Jew.

I hope you can apply that in actions.

 

[Flores]

I'm curious. And just what does the Koran say about how you should treat people who believe in many Gods, or ancestral worship like Shinto, or what of Hindism or Atheism?

If you’re going to take the moral high ground I think Buddhism is the religion for you as it is accepting of ALL peoples faiths not JUST Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

This is what the Quran says about your question:
[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!
[109.2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[109.3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[109.5] Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.


Now, can you enlighten us about what other religions say about treating muslims??

 

[James R]

PM:

True, all the above is true, but did not you notice the word CREATION in all these verses James ?? We Muslims believe in evolution AFTER creation.

Great! So, you agree that Allah created the first life, and it then evolved into all the myriad forms of life we see today. Fine.

Darwin's theory of evolution says nothing about abiogenesis - i.e. how the first life came to be. There is room for God there, although no established scientific necessity.