If you don't believe in evolution, you also can't believe in...

[Dr Lou Natic]

If I was PM I'd be offended by the way you talk about him(or me in this case? whatever).
You talk about him like he's an animal, like "don't move erratically around him or look into his eyes, try and keep him occupied while I go get some fruit out of the fridge etc etc"
If muslims are indeed human beings like you say(and I have always assumed they were) then I will treat them as such, ie giving them crap when they talk shit.
Where's the drama? I'm not going to walk on eggshells around someone JUST because they're a muslim.
You seem to hold muslims in that awkward spot many white people hold african americans.
You know being too nice and overly pc, making them feel uncomfortable by trying too hard to make them feel comfortable etc?

You fuss over PM like he's a fucking prince. Its becoming more and more apparent, and its an odd little thing i did not see coming. You are suffering from a serious case of guilt.

 

[Tiassa]

Proud Muslim

Sometimes I avoid those bigots nonesense ( for example, some of them started some threads about Saudi Arabia to bash islam, I ignored these threads and I will continue to do so ) but my main point is to tell those bigots that I AM HERE, and I will continue to be a challenger to their nonesense.

If I might bug you for a side consideration ....

• If, in the course of one's struggle against injustice, one can find a route to transcend the injustice as opposed to merely holding the line ....

I know that you know pretty much everything I could type here. The problem is that there's something about it all that tells me there's something you're missing in your response to these people. A further problem is that I can't put my finger on what that something is.

Certain ideas turn Westerners off to communication, and no matter how absurd it seems in light of a comparative standard, it's a difficult reality to deal with.

In American football, there is a tendency to "go long" if your team is losing at a certain point in the game. Sometimes this is necessary, as there's just not enough time on the clock to do anything other than throw the ball and pray (for this reason the play is called the Hail Mary°; it's actually amusing to watch football with Catholics--some of them can recite an Ave at lightspeed ... well, in 3.2 seconds). Going long can be a huge problem, though, if you switch to that strategy too early in the game; it can exacerbate your defecit in the blink of an eye. And that's where I'm seeing a possibility. Going long, playing the "air game," is an exciting and spectacular way to play the game. Over time, however, what's called "possession offense" came into vogue. A faddish offensive scheme that comes up fairly often throws short passes--easy to throw and catch--in order to take yardage quickly, but it's not exciting unless its third and long or the quarterback has to hit the crossing route repeatedly (lots of crunching impacts is the result; never put a receiver in the air across the middle--he may not get up after the hit).

Right now, you're going long. What seems bombastic to some people has to do with your constant focus on the longer-term goal, and, of course, the contentious nature of these debates. But your receivers are covered--too closely--and you're not getting the penalty flags you're hoping for.

Switch to the short-passing game. Or, if you prefer "smashmouth," the running game (lots and lots of crunching impacts, blown knees, ruined lives ... football fans love it.)

What this will do is give less opportunity for the other team to get away with penalties. They'll have to be quicker, more alert, and more rational in their playmaking. You'll get some yardage, and see a reduced tendency toward confusion.

Right now, all the other team has to do is sit back in "prevent" and continue to get away with all sorts of bad contact. Shorten up the field, make them come out and think.

A football proverb that I'm as sure as I can be has its analogous equivalent in Islamic thought: Offense wins games; defense wins championships. Play smart, cover the gaps, and make them step up with something substantial. Whichever side of the ball you're on, make them play.

Lastly, in American professional football, we've had a running debate over instant replay for ... a while. Presently, if a team really really disagrees with an official's ruling on the field, the coach can object. The game will come to a halt, one of the officials will take up to ninety seconds to watch as many camera angles on instant replay in order to figure out what actually happened. Field rulings can be overturned. One of the side benefits of this is that the league is treating unnecessary violence better. Without instant replay, the unwritten code was to get the first punch, and only the first punch. The penalty went against the retaliation about 80% of the time.

And, well ... we don't exactly have instant replay.

What I'm getting at, I guess ... is there any other way to attain the greater goal that may be more effective for you than shouting at the deaf?

I wouldn't ask you to take your eyes off the prize, so to speak, but I am wondering if this method of struggle is the only one.

Certain ... indicators ... within this topic compel me to the half-baked form of the question herein. And it's becoming quite obvious to me that much of the aggression you're encountering is merely designed to incite you in order that some can pretend you're a marionette or a fish out of water and laugh themselves silly watching you "flounder." (For once, I'm not aiming for a bad pun; the quote marks assert my removal from the term.)

Anyway ... for whatever it's worth ....

Notes:

° Hail Mary - I'm convinced that every culture has a game that looks something like the Hail Mary pass. Simply, one child stands with a ball and several children stand twenty meters away. The child with the ball throws it up in the air and the several scramble at once to catch it. Whoever catches the ball gets to throw it. It's a pointless game that passes time reasonably well without the internet or FPS video games or digital cable. I tried to find an mpg clip of a Hail Mary, just for effect, but this meager description must suffice.

 

[Tiassa]

Dr. Lou Natic

If I was PM I'd be offended by the way you talk about him

Up the dosage, son. You're not making any sense.

Again, if you have a problem with my posts, state it directly. Doing so would also demonstrate that you're actually reading the posts you respond to.

Seriously, stop and think about that point of yours. It speaks volumes to what's wrong with your outlook on the situation. You can start with the simple idea that you aren't PM; quite obviously, you both have different standards of what's offensive. So what is it, then? If you were PM you'd still think like Dr. Lou?

I have no doubts in the Universe whatsoever that if I offend PM, he'll let me know.

 

[SnakeLord]

I mean, I did, after all, explain it once to you and once to Snakelord

No Tiassa, you simply missed my point which was: You can say all this in your own thread.

Easy enough?

 

[Tiassa]

Easy enough?

Yeah. I didn't realize you were that frightened of integrity, objectivity, or thinking.

Adjusting to that should be no problem.

Now then, why don't we consider your "point":

SnakeLord: There is a topic here, although I guess you have no interest in it.
Tiassa: Perhaps I didn't make myself clear when I called the topic inflammatory and referred to the discussion as scorching bigotry . . . . (quote to demonstrate) . . . . Beyond that, I have addressed the topic post specifically, both generally and point-by-point. (quote to demonstrate).
SnakeLord: No Tiassa, you simply missed my point . . . .

So did you misrepresent your point then or are you misrepresenting it now?

What else of your "point" ...?

SnakeLord: As such I question why you're spending such time and energy to get your feelings and opinions out, (just like everyone else), in the middle of this non-existant topic.
Tiassa: Hmmm ... prior to the Sciforums 3.0 update, people were complaining about moderation, about other posters, and so on. In response to the Sciforums 3.0 update, the Sciforums Open Government forum was exploited for a Ban War. People aren't getting along because they don't want to.

I think of the people, myself included, who have devoted many words of various temperaments to considering the state of discussions around Sciforums. Some of our most legendary wallopings have grown out of issues of paradigm and perspective that can be worked around if only people should choose to. And while some of those issues have been tragic misunderstandings, there's no question about the inflammatory nature of this topic. I see some intelligent people here advocating the ignorant and inflammatory for reasons that seem to be somewhat immediate; the argumentative context stays in a vacuum. I know a couple of intelligent folks are disgusted by Proud Muslim, but he operates under the burden of other people's bigotry.

It's generally easy enough to get along with him. For the most part, just don't go out of your way to be offensive. There are and have been a number of tragic misunderstandings afoot, but where the folks Dr. Lou describes as laughing are among fellows of common context and sympathy, Proud Muslim is not.

I've been in crossfires before where people who really didn't mean to contribute to the negativity did so anyway and got absolutely thrashed by the response.

So between the fairly narrow concern of conduct and atmosphere at Sciforums and my broader personal commitment against bigotry as an ignorance bearing tall consequences, I'm very compelled to respond and to remind the laughing chorus that just because five men are laughing and saying it's good doesn't make it so for the victim of a gang rape.

The topic post was inflammatory. Proud Muslim may--perhaps should, but that's left to him--wish to reconsider taking such bait in the future, as the scale of the waiting ambush should be apparent by now. But none of that redeems this topic or the absolutely flaming ignorance driving the laughing chorus.

Easy enough?
SnakeLord: No Tiassa, you simply missed my point which was: You can say all this in your own thread.

Seems like you're the only one it's not easy enough for. Shall we move on?

SnakeLord: Wouldn't it seem of more value to start a 'real' topic telling everyone how you feel about threads with no topic? Just a suggestion.
Tiassa: I do, every once in a while. They're not very popular.
SnakeLord: No Tiassa, you simply missed my point which was: You can say all this in your own thread.

So what is it, Snake? Did you ask questions you didn't want answered? Did you decide those other questions were unimportant somewhere along the way? Or are you just being dishonest?

Seriously, Snake, what the hell is your problem? I answered your damn questions and this is the best you can come up with? That's ... just ... sad.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

I think it's quite an extraordinary claim to say Islam is a scientific religion. If science is understood to be a belief system that functions on observations, logic and empirical proof and although science maybe speculative in Islam, it is unreasonable to say Islam as a whole is scientific; as it is unreasonable to say Christianity is scientific because of some scientific speculation - "Earth is flat, Earth is at the centre of the universe"

Modern science and the theory of evolution are all inspired by christianity. After all Newton didn't 'discover' gravity in order to understand the universe better, he discovered it to show that the universe was god's creation.

Although early european scientific might have been influenced by islamic scholars, the same can be said for greek and roman scholars. They weren't muslims though. That makes you wonder what they had in common. Certainly not religion. Wait a sec...oh yes, these scholars were part of succesful civilizations.

Darwin's work on evolution (he wasn't even the first to postulate evolution. There is nothing special about evolution itself in this manner. It was the mechanism that is the problem for theists then and now) was also inspired by a historical desire to find the works of god in nature.

 

[SnakeLord]

So what is it, Snake? Did you ask questions you didn't want answered? Did you decide those other questions were unimportant somewhere along the way? Or are you just being dishonest?

Seriously, Snake, what the hell is your problem? I answered your damn questions and this is the best you can come up with? That's ... just ... sad.

Well it certainly seems you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. I also wonder why you keep missing out a certain portion of my post whenever you respond to it, (namely the part where I said you were invoking enough by yourself).

Now, I do truly feel for you. It must be disheartening to make threads which are not very popular, but it still leaves little point in butting into this one, making accusations that others are invoking flames, when your posts are doing nothing other than that.

PM is having a fun time apparently, becoming all the more confident in his beliefs because of evolutionists, Flores and I have been discussing the nature of pigs, which although might be seemingly worthless, is still interesting. Links have been provided, information given - and whether some people are upset by it or not, it enables everyone to learn, to disagree, to debate and sure- sometimes to flame.

Now, Dr Lou's original post might not have been entirely accurate, or even worthwhile, but threads "evolve", yet you seem more interested in having a go at Dr Lou, than you do in the actual progressing topic of this thread. You have your reasons to find fault with him, and that's fine, but why come into this thread solely to have a pop at Dr Lou? Even going so far as to say you're tired of people invoking stupid and inflammatory debates when your post does exactly the same thing. Your usage of words like moron, f@cking, making statements about peoples intelligence and so on will invoke stupid debates all by themselves.

I said to you: "wouldn't it seem more of value to start a 'real' topic to tell everyone how you feel about threads with no topic?"

I stand by that. I don't give a shit if they're popular or not, there's no need to interrupt this thread because of your personal feelings of the thread starter.

Of course, I did also say it's "just a suggestion."

Yeah. I didn't realize you were that frightened of integrity, objectivity, or thinking.

You sound like a really bitter person. I feel for you.

Anything else you would like me to say, before you once again start up with the insults?

 

[Flores]

You forget that ONLY Islam is the religion that honours jews and christians and consider them the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, this is a point of the side of Islam as a tolerant religion, we dont condemn everyone to hell, we dont have monopoly over heavn unlike christians and jews, we believe OTHERS who are not Muslims will go to heave as well.

Then what do you always call me mistaken? If you don't have a monopoly over god's decision, mercy, compassion, then why do you think that your way or the highway...Answer me this please.

Sister, what bother me in your answers is repeating the word submitt, you are so much influenced by the submitters false teachings, those are NOT muslims my dear sister.

You are so wrong. First off, I have never read or spoke to submitter false teaching...I'm not even aware that such teachings exist. Everything I say is my own understanding and believe and I believe that Islam literally means Submission to god totally and in peace. Salamm=Peace, Salem=Submit, Saleem=total. Do you have another translation for the world Islam that I don't know about?

Indeed, Islam is MORE important than my life, sumbitting to God is an ISLAMIC act, Islamic definition, Islamic concept...if you dont feel jealous about Islam, you are NOT Muslim.

You are dead wrong. Without your life, you can't show god your true Islam. Without life, you are nothing. It's through our life and hardship that we show Allah how we are trully submitters to his will. When our kids die, when we loose our wealth, when we loose parents, when we loose our position. In all these situations, the Islamic answer is to press on and keep going trusting in god and submitting to his will. Us muslims never suicide or abort as an answer to problems, because our believe and trust in god prohibits us from taking godly matters in our own hands like life and death.

Sister, but you admitted that you are not even Muslim but mere submitter !!

I'm a Muslim and a proud one too, more proud than you...but It's not important for me that you know that I'm a muslim. It is more important to me that god knows that I'm a muslim

AMAZING, if you go to this paltalk.com the site I gave to you, you will find people there calling me SELL OUT, LOOSE MUSLIM, SECUALR MUSLIM..ETC and here you think I am extremist, which means, I am in the MIDDLE and that is what Islam is all about, a middle way.

Why do you listen to these people? If you are sure about yourself and your life and your house, noone, I repeat noone should have the right to call you sell out, loose muslim, whatever. You are in no obligation to their Islam, you are only under obligation to god.

And I am doing that, how do you know what I do ? you dont know who I am, so how can you make judgements ?? I never make judgements about you and what you do, it is between you and your creator, it is not my right to interfene, even when you dress bikini ( which is totally against Islam ) still it is your FREE CHOISE, it is not me who will judge you, it is Allah almighty, so do what you pleases.

I'm not attacking you by asking you to look at yourself first. I'm actually advising you that you don't owe anyone anything but yourself and your god.

You see, you are again making assumptions about me and my house without even knowing who I am !! this is not fair dear sister and you know it.

This is a general advice...Socrates told us that a successfull man must have a private work station and not a public one. You seem to be voicing your opinions through a public station and thus I'm advicing you to work privately because that is more effective for Islam. If me, you, and all other muslims started paying more attention to ourselves first, our homes, ect...and forgot all about the unity crap and the public crap, then we will be more united than ever. Unity is not in slogans, cheers, and clubs. Unity is in actions.

I cant stand seeing HATERS and LIARS bashing islam and getting away with it, it is my duty as Muslim to defend Islam, Allah will ask you in the day of judgement about this person who insulted Islam or Allah(swt ) or the prophet (pbuh )in front of you while you did nothing !!! how would you answer him ??

When the prophet was asked who should be loved first, he said, "your mom", when he asked about who we should love second, he said, "your mom", when he asked who we should love third, he said "your mom, and when asked, who should we love fourth, he said "your dad". The prophet never said you should love god and prophet first. We muslims have our priorities straight....To god we submit, to the prophet we ackowledge that he is a messanger, to the parents we love, and to our children, we need no instructions, because our love for the children is instilled in us and need no additional commandments.

Due to this, I think you are mistaken for saying that you love Islam more than your life. God doesn't require or need your love, god needs your submission. Your parents need your love, the prophet doesn't need your love, only your respect in acknowledging him in the right light. The muslims are instructed to only go to war when they are thrown from their house, do you know why? because our life is so valuable that it should only be squandered to save our lives, only then that we fight to save ourselves that we are fighting for god.

Let me tell you a story. Our Prophet peace be upon him. Have withstood so much more than me and you have ever seen. People not only used to bash Islam, they used to literally throw trash at him, dump dirty water on his head while he prayed, abuse the muslim women left and right, plot to kill him, and much more. The prophet have never retaliated to this until a divine order came down on him to retaliate. The prophet excercised TAQWA, self control. He didn't have to answer to any of the abuse, and in actuallity him and other muslims taking the abuse and not answering back have strengthened Islam more than any war.

In addition, Islam in the early ages was spread by example. For example, muslim traders used to go to China to sell their products, When the chinease customer used to offer a price, the muslim used to be honest with the customer and tell them that the price is too high. Also muslims never engaged in cheating people. The chinease after a while where confused to the motivation behind such honesty and slowly they learned Islam by example, not by missionaries, internet site attacks, and some of the stuff we do today that is highly ineffective and actually counterproductive. Notice that the early muslims didn't have any intentions to convert others. They were honest to all people regardless of their spiritual affiliation and their good intent were met in a positive way.

You know sister, I think you upbringing in America has a lot to do with your understanding of REAL ISLAM, I know many American sisters who were born there but they were raised in TRUE Islamic environement, I NEVER met a single American sister who think the way you do...log in to paltalk.com and meet so many American sisters who dont share you a single thought about Islam.

You are judging me again and you are questioning my real understanding of Islam.....The prophet never did that. Show me the real Islam in your tolerance, show me the real Islam in the way you take care of your house, parents, kids, street, country. Don't lecture me about real Islam. Be Islam instead....Treat me right, treat the world right regardless of whether they are Atheists, Christians, gays, ect......It's god that we judge the individual on what they have brought forward or left behind.....And don't expect anything in return from people...Expect your reward from Allah...

Why you dont have a chat with your dad, I am sure his influence on you is far much greater than anyone else, have a chat with him about your views, listen to him...please do it.

I have already chatted on my dad and he taught me everything I know. And by the way, my husband is also an excellent person and in my eyes is a complete muslim. Both my dad and my husband think that talking about Islam doesn't accomplish a damn thing. Everytime that I tried to start a discussion with them, they diverted me to the more important thing, like my dad telling me, did you change your son, did you cook for your husband, did you finish your cleaning, did you finish studying, did you pamper your husband, ect.....When I do all the above, and I go back with another question, my dad's answer have been consistent....All the answers your need about Islam is right within your house, your work, and your life. Perhaps my dad have raised me different than other muslims, but he have taught me responsbility and priorities.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I am not Moslem and I am not entirely knowledgable about Islam, though I do in fact consider Islam to be a primitive religion, as I do Christianity and Judaism. I admire your loyality to your faith.

Thank you so much for your comment.

Although you would be hard-pressed to convince me of the existence of Allah. I doubt you have any compelling proof of his existence.

Well, this is another topic, but I welcome private debate about this matter, you can send me a PM and I will send you my E-mail and we can start lengthy debate about the existence of God.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

PM:
It is not necessary to be an atheist to believe in evolution. Many Muslims believe in evolution. Islam is not an anti-scientific faith. I'm surprised you don't know that.

Muslims dont believe in Evolution, you failed to support this claim with any proof.

Islam is indeed not anti scientific faith, but who told you evolution is scientific anyway ??

You missed my point. You say the atheists here are fanatical, yet they do not continually post threads saying, essentially, "Look! Atheism is great!". Yet you post thread after thread saying little more than "Look! Islam is great!".

This is not true, I dont post threads to tell look Islam is great, since you are the moderator, why you dont go and review my threads about Islam to see that the majority of them are DEFENSIVE threads or threads to clear misconceptions !!

I have seen few "hateful" threads about Islam here. "Hate" is a very strong emotion, and I seriously doubt that anybody here hates Islam. Of course, there are many here who do not believe that Islam is the One True Faith like you do. But that is far from hating it, or its followers.

You see James, you look at HATE differently from how I look at it, maybe because we came from 2 different cultures.

I understand that there are people who hate Islam and Muslims. Often, they are people who don't understand or know much about Islam. Often, they hate for political reasons - just as you hate the Jewish people for political reasons.

I dont hate the jews, I hate the zionists, and ZIONISTS ARE NOT JEWS, JEWS ARE NOT ZIONISTS.

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org

That would really depend on the rules of the particular forum, so I can't answer this directly. Perhaps you were spamming. Perhaps you were being vitriolic towards other posters. I don't know.

Nah, not at all, I dont spamm and even If I did once, it is easy to delete a spamm, or what do you think james ?

I dont attack other posters until they attack me, I dont turn the other cheek as my great faith teaches me.

It must be emotionally draining for you to be constantly in a state of white-hot righteous indignation against people who don't share your beliefs. You really need to learn to relax a little, and realise that the world will go on regardless.

True, the world will go on regardless, but why should I allow any one to scratch Islam even from The outside ! This is my E-JIHAD against hate, lies and bigotry, in such circumstances, JIHAD becomes a DUTY on every single adult Muslim( man and woman ) and this E-jihad is as important as the real jihad on the ground defending the Muslim land from occupation and invaders.

Islam doesn't need you to shield it. It is an old, established religion with millions of followers. It won't die out if you calm down enough to listen to what other people think about it.

I dont mind listening to what people think about Islam, I am aware that there are some people who dont like Islam, FAIR ENOUGH, I am willing to listen to criticism against my faith, I am willing to listen to people talking about Islam, but I am not willing to listen to slander and lies against Islam.

I welcome your( not you personaly ) criticism, I welcome your questions, but I dont welcome your hate, slander and bigotry

You'll be better able to defend your faith if you come to understand why some people think differently from you.

I am not expecting everyone to think the same as me, but I am expecting them NOT to be hypocrties when it comes to Islam and Muslims...I notice here and indeed in the real world that it is ok to slander and bash Islam and Muslims, but it is a major crime even to mention the word JEW..so I am here to expose this nonesense about Islam and bury it to rest forever.

 

[Flores]

This is my E-JIHAD against hate, lies and bigotry, in such circumstances

No hope....Hopeless case really

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Proud MuslimIf I might bug you for a side consideration ....

• If, in the course of one's struggle against injustice, one can find a route to transcend the injustice as opposed to merely holding the line ....

True, But in this jungle filled with thick trees of bigotry and hate, I cant see any alternative route, all I see is fogy lanes with wolfs standing by watching with open mouths.

I know that you know pretty much everything I could type here. The problem is that there's something about it all that tells me there's something you're missing in your response to these people. A further problem is that I can't put my finger on what that something is.

Maybe the problem is the cultural differences, I am the only here who happen to come from entirely difference culture, very far away land with totally different set of rules and perceptions, these perceptions contradict the western perceptions in almost everything...faced with that, I tend to hold to my dear valued perceptions and not giving in to alien perceptions that have nothing to do with me, my culture, my faith or my civilization.

Certain ideas turn Westerners off to communication, and no matter how absurd it seems in light of a comparative standard, it's a difficult reality to deal with.

I agree, but I notice there is no general standard to the western culture, you for example with your reason and logic represents the true elements in the rational western civilization, the civilization that gave the world its most tresured thinkers and scientists, on the other hand, people like flores (hybrid ) is lost between the east and the west, people like this lunatic, our dutch monkey and others are the worst ambassadors to their culture, they represents the worse in the west of arrogance, self-rightousness and the down look they have on others.

Right now, you're going long. What seems bombastic to some people has to do with your constant focus on the longer-term goal, and, of course, the contentious nature of these debates. But your receivers are covered--too closely--and you're not getting the penalty flags you're hoping for.

I agree, but this is the only way I have faced with all this pressure and indeed bigotry coming from all sides, there is no other way because those bigots have no other way.

Switch to the short-passing game. Or, if you prefer "smashmouth," the running game (lots and lots of crunching impacts, blown knees, ruined lives ... football fans love it.)

I am not familiar with the American football, I am familiar with the rest of the world football ( what you call it soccer ) but I am getting what you are saying, indeed, I will be going next week for maybe 14 days on a conference and after that a course about Islam and the west, maybe these 2 weeks will be a cooling period and then I will be back with more ammunition and more information.

Right now, all the other team has to do is sit back in "prevent" and continue to get away with all sorts of bad contact. Shorten up the field, make them come out and think.

Point taken, highly appreciated and will be implemented immediately.

A football proverb that I'm as sure as I can be has its analogous equivalent in Islamic thought: Offense wins games; defense wins championships.

This is amazing proverb....I wrote it down for further reference.

play smart, cover the gaps, and make them step up with something substantial. Whichever side of the ball you're on, make them play.

After a while they will have nothing to play with, maybe they will start playing with each other.

What I'm getting at, I guess ... is there any other way to attain the greater goal that may be more effective for you than shouting at the deaf?

yes, sign langauge in my way.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Then what do you always call me mistaken? If you don't have a monopoly over god's decision, mercy, compassion, then why do you think that your way or the highway...Answer me this please.

I am talking about Islam, because I am MUSLIM, and not any Muslim, but someone with long years reading and debating Islam and other religions, I can safely say, what you write does not represent Islam, in your admittion you are not even a Muslim but mere submitter, so when it comes to Islam, I have the right to speak and correct you because you engage in something you dont even believe in.

You are so wrong. First off, I have never read or spoke to submitter false teaching...I'm not even aware that such teachings exist. Everything I say is my own understanding and believe and I believe that Islam literally means Submission to god totally and in peace. Salamm=Peace, Salem=Submit, Saleem=total. Do you have another translation for the world Islam that I don't know about?

Yes my dear sister, Islam is NOT only about submission to God, someone cant claim to be Muslim unless he/she believes in the 5 pillars of Islam:

The Five Pillars of Islam

1-Iman or Faith

There is none worthy of worship except God and Muhammad is the messenger of God." This declaration of faith is called the Shahadah, a simple formula that all the faithful pronounce. The significance of this declaration is the belief that the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God, and this is achieved through the teachings and practices of the Last Prophet, Muhammad ( pbuh ).

2-Salah or Prayer

Salah is the name for the obligatory prayers that are performed five times a day, and are a direct link between the worshipper and God. There is no hierarchical authority in Islam and there are no priests. Prayers are led by a learned person who knows the Qur'an and is generally chosen by the congregation.

Prayers are said at dawn, mid-day, late-afternoon, sunset and nightfall, and thus determine the rhythm of the entire day. These five prescribed prayers contain verses from the Qur'an, and are said in Arabic, the language of the Revelation. Personal supplications, however, can be offered in one's own language and at any time.

A translation of the ''Adan'' or Call to Prayer is:

God is Great.
God is Great.
God is Great.
God is Great.
I testify that there is none worthy of worship except God.
I testify that there is none worthy of worship except God.
I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
Come to prayer!
Come to prayer!
Come to success!
Come to success!
God is Great!
God is Great!
There is none worthy of worship except God.

3-Zakah. The financial obligation upon Muslims.

An important principle of Islam is that everything belongs to God, and that wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The word zakah means both "purification" and "growth." Our possessions are purified by setting aside a proportion for those in need and for the society in general. Like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.

Each Muslim calculates his or her own zakah individually. This involves the annual payment of a fortieth of one's capital, excluding such items as primary residence, car and professional tools.

An individual may also give as much as he or she pleases as sadaqa-h, and does so preferably in secret. Although this word can be translated as "voluntary charity" it has a wider meaning.
The Prophet said, "Even meeting your brother with a cheerful face is an act of charity." The Prophet also said: "Charity is a necessity for every Muslim." He was asked: "What if a person has nothing?" The Prophet replied: "He should work with his own hands for his benefit and then give something out of such earnings in charity." The Companions of the Prophet asked: "What if he is not able to work?" The Prophet said: "He should help the poor and needy." The Companions further asked: "What if he cannot do even that?" The Prophet said: "He should urge others to do good." The Companions said: "What if he lacks that also?" The Prophet said: "He should check himself from doing evil. That is also an act of charity."

4-Siaam or Fasting in Ramadan

Every year in the month of Ramada-n, all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown--abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations with their spouses.

Those who are sick, elderly, or on a journey, and women who are menstruating, pregnant or nursing, are permitted to break the fast and make up an equal number of days later in the year if they are healthy and able. Children begin to fast (and to observe prayers) from puberty, although many start earlier.

Although fasting is beneficial to health, it is mainly a method of self-purification and self-restraint. By cutting oneself from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person focuses on his or her purpose in life by constantly being aware of the presence of God. God states in the Qur'an: "O you who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed to those before you that you may learn self-restraint." (Qur'an 2:183)

5- Hajj or Pilgrimage

The pilgrimage to Makkah (the hajj) is an obligation only for those who are physically and financially able to do so. Nevertheless, over two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe providing a unique opportunity for those of different nations to meet one another.

The annual hajj begins in the twelfth month of the Islamic year (which is lunar, not solar, so that hajj and Ramada-n fall sometimes in summer, sometimes in winter). Pilgrims wear special clothes: simple garments that strip away distinctions of class and culture, so that all stand equal before God.
The rites of the hajj, which are of Abrahamic origin, include going around the Ka'bah seven times, and going seven times between the hills of Safa and Marwa as did Hagar (Hajir, Abraham's wife) during her search for water. The pilgrims later stand together on the wide plains of 'Arafat (a large expanse of desert outside Makkah) and join in prayer for God's forgiveness, in what is often thought as a preview of the Day of Judgment.

The close of the hajj is marked by a festival, the 'Id al Adha, which is celebrated with prayers and the exchange of gifts in Muslim communities everywhere. This and the 'Id al Fitr, a festive day celebrating the end of Ramada-n, are the two holidays of the Islamic calendar.

Us muslims never suicide or abort as an answer to problems, because our believe and trust in god prohibits us from taking godly matters in our own hands like life and death.

True, but who is advocating suicide here ?? If I am given the choice between living very nice life and losing Islam, I will prefer to lose my life and die as a MUSLIM. this life is short, as the prophet muhammad (pbuh ) said: this life is a dream and death is the real awakening.

This life is vanity, I wont take my car and my house and my bank credit with me to the grave, what I will take with me is my DEEDS and this what Allah almighty is going to ask me about, my deeds, he will ask me about the religion he chose to perfect this world, ISLAM, he will ask me about what I did to protect Islam, what I did when I see Muslims being slaughtered.

The prophet Muhammad (pbuh ) said: you will never ever smell the paradise if you sleep while your neighbour is hungry.

This life is just a vanity:

''And this life of the world is nothing but a sport and a play; and as for the next abode, that most surely is the life-- did they but know! '' The Noble Quran 29:64

I'm a Muslim and a proud one too, more proud than you...but It's not important for me that you know that I'm a muslim. It is more important to me that god knows that I'm a muslim

I am glad you changed your mind about this, I am very happy that you are a proud muslimah.

Why do you listen to these people? If you are sure about yourself and your life and your house, noone, I repeat noone should have the right to call you sell out, loose muslim, whatever. You are in no obligation to their Islam, you are only under obligation to god.

Sure and this is what I believe in, but my point was I am moderate Muslim, I know Islam very well, Islam is the religion of moderation and tolerance.

I'm not attacking you by asking you to look at yourself first. I'm actually advising you that you don't owe anyone anything but yourself and your god.

True sister, but Islam is a strong family, All Muslims are brothers and sisters, if my chinese Muslim brothers are suffering ( and they are suffering ) I feel their pain and it is my duty to help as it is your duty to help as well.

This is a general advice...Socrates told us that a successfull man must have a private work station and not a public one. You seem to be voicing your opinions through a public station and thus I'm advicing you to work privately because that is more effective for Islam. If me, you, and all other muslims started paying more attention to ourselves first, our homes, ect...and forgot all about the unity crap and the public crap, then we will be more united than ever. Unity is not in slogans, cheers, and clubs. Unity is in actions.

indeed, unity is in actions, but actions cant be taken privatelly, these actions must affect non muslims too who hold misconceptions about islam due to biased media reporting and centuries of orinetalism and christian missionary nonesense.

Due to this, I think you are mistaken for saying that you love Islam more than your life. God doesn't require or need your love, god needs your submission. Your parents need your love, the prophet doesn't need your love, only your respect in acknowledging him in the right light.

God does not require my love, Islam DOES require my love and attention because it is Islam Allah Almighty chose as the perfect religion to all mankind.

Allah Almighty does not need ONLY my submission, submission include actions and obeying orders, you cant submitt without responsibilities.

The muslims are instructed to only go to war when they are thrown from their house, do you know why? because our life is so valuable that it should only be squandered to save our lives, only then that we fight to save ourselves that we are fighting for god.

sure, but what do you think now about the state of Muslims in Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, philipense..etc ?????

You are judging me again and you are questioning my real understanding of Islam.....The prophet never did that. Show me the real Islam in your tolerance, show me the real Islam in the way you take care of your house, parents, kids, street, country.

Sister, in Islam there is NO tolerance with haters, there is no tolerance with criminals, Islam teachs us to hit back, I am sure you are so much influenced by the christian dogma in the states, maybe so much missionaries knocking your door telling you you need jesus !!

Don't lecture me about real Islam. Be Islam instead....Treat me right, treat the world right regardless of whether they are Atheists, Christians, gays, ect......It's god that we judge the individual on what they have brought forward or left behind.....And don't expect anything in return from people...Expect your reward from Allah...

I treat everyone nicely if they show respect, respect is earned when it is due.

I have already chatted on my dad and he taught me everything I know. And by the way, my husband is also an excellent person and in my eyes is a complete muslim.

May Allah bless you with both of them...ameen.

Both my dad and my husband think that talking about Islam doesn't accomplish a damn thing.

This is not true, how will you learn if you dont ask ????

Everytime that I tried to start a discussion with them, they diverted me to the more important thing, like my dad telling me, did you change your son, did you cook for your husband, did you finish your cleaning, did you finish studying, did you pamper your husband, ect.....When I do all the above, and I go back with another question, my dad's answer have been consistent....All the answers your need about Islam is right within your house, your work, and your life. Perhaps my dad have raised me different than other muslims, but he have taught me responsbility and priorities.

That what I was thinking, your dad is secular Muslim, this indeed has influnced you greatly, and you know, he will be asked on the day of judgement about you and your upbrining....by the way, dont you know any Muslim American sisters like you who were born and raised in the states ? did not you wonder why they behave differently than you ???

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I have no doubts in the Universe whatsoever that if I offend PM, he'll let me know.

You never offended me nor my faith nor my culture, I think you are well read about Islam and its culture while others here are just ignorant bigots.

I welcome your criticism about Islam, I welcome your takings on Islam, I welcome your advices, because for me, your criticism and your advices hold far much weight than any other person here because you speak out of knowledge, they speak out of ignorance and bigotry.

If you have knowledge ( and you do have ), let others light their candles at it.

 

[Flores]

The Five Pillars of Islam

Alaik Noor....The five pillar of Islam...I follow them, and by your own admittance, the five pillars of Islam do not include HIJAB, Jihad, attending mosque, defending Islam, bashing haters...Thank god almighty, you have just demonstrated that everything that you preach is not a duty on a muslim, only the five pillars are duties.

1-Iman or Faith

No problem there, I testify that "LA Illah Ila Allah wa Anna Muhammed Abdahou wa Rasoulouh."

2-Salah or Prayer

No problem there, I pray. The prayer can be done in the privacy of our home with my dad and husband leading the prayer and the rest of the family following. I don't cover my hair when I pray...no need to, I either pray alone or with my dad and husband, mom, sister, ect....No need for mosque....my house is my mosque and my husband is my Imam....Got a problem with that? Many times, I pray alone with my son climbing my shoulder and my daugher immitating me. I try to teach my son to be quite during prayer, but he's too young to understand, so I let him occasionally climb me and pull my hair. I usually keep repeating the prayer for five or six times, because I had to interrupt to attend to the kids or they'll kill themselves.

3-Zakah. The financial obligation upon Muslims.

No problem, done in private. Noone knows how much or to whom do I give Zakat.

4-Siaam or Fasting in Ramadan

No problem, done in private. I often fast without even my coworkers knowing that I'm fasting...On very few occasions do they know that I'm fasting when they offer me food and I apologize.

No problem, I give Zakat, although I hate to publically admit it. I give my Zakat in secret.

5- Hajj or Pilgrimage

I have already performed one Hajj that my dad payed for. Me and husband will be doing another one when our financial situation allows it.[/QUOTE]

I am glad you changed your mind about this, I am very happy that you are a proud muslimah.

I never changed my mind about anything. I'm a believe in god...Moemena...I'm a Moemena before I'm a muslima...No contradictions.

True sister, but Islam is a strong family, All Muslims are brothers and sisters, if my chinese Muslim brothers are suffering ( and they are suffering ) I feel their pain and it is my duty to help as it is your duty to help as well.

I already have a strong family. I need not reach out further than the extent of my life circle.

indeed, unity is in actions, but actions cant be taken privatelly, these actions must affect non muslims too who hold misconceptions about islam due to biased media reporting and centuries of orinetalism and christian missionary nonesense.

Actions must be taken privately to really mean something. Do you know what Sarraa wa El Darraa means. God appreciates more doing good in secrete than doing good publically. I need not do an E-Hijad...By cleaning my street, helping my neighbor push their car, cook for my elderly neighbor, ect...I'm doing much better than preaching.

God does not require my love, Islam DOES require my love and attention because it is Islam Allah Almighty chose as the perfect religion to all mankind.

God doesn't need anything from us. It's us that need Allah.
Islam doesn't require anything. Islam is not a person, animal, bird, ect.....Islam without our lives have no meaning.

Allah Almighty does not need ONLY my submission, submission include actions and obeying orders, you cant submitt without responsibilities.

Islam means submission, end of discussion, if god wanted to call it obeying orders, he would have, but he chose the word submission to describe our religion. Judiasm means guidance.

sure, but what do you think now about the state of Muslims in Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, philipense..etc ?????

I don't care. I care about the state of my affairs that god will judge me on. Wallowing and crying about chechnya doesn't serve me any good....Taking care of my family will serve me much better.

Sister, in Islam there is NO tolerance with haters, there is no tolerance with criminals, Islam teachs us to hit back, I am sure you are so much influenced by the christian dogma in the states, maybe so much missionaries knocking your door telling you you need jesus !!

I don't care about your version. I choose to have tolerance with haters and I think it's more effective...You choose your style and I choose mine, as you mentioned above, the pillars of Islam are five and fighting the haters is not one of the pillars.

I treat everyone nicely if they show respect, respect is earned when it is due.

Respect is not earned when it's due...That's non civility and barbarism...Respect is a state of being for a muslim...A respectfull person is respectfull all the time even when he retaliates, regardless of your surrounding....you should remain respectfull.

This is not true, how will you learn if you dont ask ????

I learn by subtelty and observation. I learned about how to have a successfull marriage by watching my dad and mom have a loving relationship. I learned how to be a good mom by watching my mom, I learned how to be a good engineer by observing my good mentors behave.

That what I was thinking, your dad is secular Muslim, this indeed has influnced you greatly, and you know, he will be asked on the day of judgement about you and your upbrining....

Don't label my dad please. Stop your labeling business because I'm sick and tired of it. There is no sticky label in your judgemental drawer that can describe my dad. So rest in peace and go to hell and rott well, cause you aint seeing my father there. Talk about me all you want, but talk again about my dad and your keyboards will come flying in your face. I think you have missed my other side.

by the way, dont you know any Muslim American sisters like you who were born and raised in the states ?

I know many respectable American muslim women, and I have one sister. I wouldn't expect you to understand their point of view, because they don't hang around your joint.

 

[Flores]

• If, in the course of one's struggle against injustice, one can find a route to transcend the injustice as opposed to merely holding the line ....

Injustice is composed of two players. The giver and recievee....Both parties in any injustice situation are being unjust.

I know that you know pretty much everything I could type here. The problem is that there's something about it all that tells me there's something you're missing in your response to these people. A further problem is that I can't put my finger on what that something is.

He claims that the cultural barrier is what he is missing...Well, I spend half of my life in his exact environment and I still don't get him.

Certain ideas turn Westerners off to communication, and no matter how absurd it seems in light of a comparative standard, it's a difficult reality to deal with.

Westerners are way more practical than easterners. Westerners are turned off by the excessive emotional appeal that is usally the order of business for easterners. I do a whole lot of emotional appeal myself.

In American football, there is a tendency to "go long" if your team is losing at a certain point in the game. Sometimes this is necessary, as there's just not enough time on the clock to do anything other than throw the ball and pray (for this reason the play is called the Hail Mary°; it's actually amusing to watch football with Catholics--some of them can recite an Ave at lightspeed ... well, in 3.2 seconds). Going long can be a huge problem, though, if you switch to that strategy too early in the game; it can exacerbate your defecit in the blink of an eye. And that's where I'm seeing a possibility. Going long, playing the "air game," is an exciting and spectacular way to play the game. Over time, however, what's called "possession offense" came into vogue. A faddish offensive scheme that comes up fairly often throws short passes--easy to throw and catch--in order to take yardage quickly, but it's not exciting unless its third and long or the quarterback has to hit the crossing route repeatedly (lots of crunching impacts is the result; never put a receiver in the air across the middle--he may not get up after the hit).

Damn Tiassa, you're making my like Football. Perhaps you are the answer to my husband prayers.

Right now, all the other team has to do is sit back in "prevent" and continue to get away with all sorts of bad contact. Shorten up the field, make them come out and think.

Right on the money Tiassa...You are a genius...I love you..don't ever wanna be your enemy

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Alaik Noor....The five pillar of Islam...I follow them, and by your own admittance, the five pillars of Islam do not include HIJAB, Jihad, attending mosque, defending Islam, bashing haters...Thank god almighty, you have just demonstrated that everything that you preach is not a duty on a muslim, only the five pillars are duties.

Great but the thing is you deny you are Muslim, you say you are only submitter, make up your mind akhti ( sister ).

No problem there, I testify that "LA Illah Ila Allah wa Anna Muhammed Abdahou wa Rasoulouh."

Great, nice and wonderful, doing so means you are MUSLIM not submitter.

No problem there, I pray. The prayer can be done in the privacy of our home with my dad and husband leading the prayer and the rest of the family following. I don't cover my hair when I pray...no need to, I either pray alone or with my dad and husband, mom, sister, ect....No need for mosque....my house is my mosque and my husband is my Imam....Got a problem with that?

Only one problem, convering your head when you pray.

Many times, I pray alone with my son climbing my shoulder and my daugher immitating me.

masha allah, they must be very cute, May Allah bless and protect them.

I try to teach my son to be quite during prayer, but he's too young to understand, so I let him occasionally climb me and pull my hair. I usually keep repeating the prayer for five or six times, because I had to interrupt to attend to the kids or they'll kill themselves.

No problem, the prophet's 2 grandchildern ( Al Hasan and Al Hussain ) used to do the same, and the prophet (pbuh ) used to prolong his prayer so that those 2 kids will enjoy their play....can you imagine a more merciful man than prophet Muhammad (pbuh ) ?

No problem, done in private. Noone knows how much or to whom do I give Zakat.

well done, no one should know, your left hand should not know what your hand is spending as zakat.

No problem, done in private. I often fast without even my coworkers knowing that I'm fasting...On very few occasions do they know that I'm fasting when they offer me food and I apologize.

No problem, I give Zakat, although I hate to publically admit it. I give my Zakat in secret.

Well done, Masha allah, I am very proud of you.

I have already performed one Hajj that my dad payed for. Me and husband will be doing another one when our financial situation allows it.

Masha allah, very impressive.

I never changed my mind about anything. I'm a believe in god...Moemena...I'm a Moemena before I'm a muslima...No contradictions.

As long as you are not ONLY submitter, you are still safe.

I already have a strong family. I need not reach out further than the extent of my life circle.

Here where we differ: The prophet (pbuh ) said: Muslims are like one body, if one part gets hurt, all the body feel the pain.

Actions must be taken privately to really mean something. Do you know what Sarraa wa El Darraa means. God appreciates more doing good in secrete than doing good publically. I need not do an E-Hijad...By cleaning my street, helping my neighbor push their car, cook for my elderly neighbor, ect...I'm doing much better than preaching.

I am not preaching, I am confronting hate and LIES, I am not qualified to preach, but I am qualified to answer questions about Islam.

beside, who told you I dont take care of my neighbours ? or I dont do good in my community ?? but this should not prevent you from your basic duty, do you know that in this time of clamity, JIHAD in all its forms is a DUTY on every muslim and muslimah ???

God doesn't need anything from us. It's us that need Allah.
Islam doesn't require anything. Islam is not a person, animal, bird, ect.....Islam without our lives have no meaning.

And our lives without Islam have no meaning as well, our lives with distorted and wounded Islam have no meaning as well.

Islam means submission, end of discussion, if god wanted to call it obeying orders, he would have, but he chose the word submission to describe our religion. Judiasm means guidance.

Islam DOES NOT mean submission ONLY..it is not the end of discussion, are you sure you are not a memeber of this submission cult ???? :bugeye:

I don't care. I care about the state of my affairs that god will judge me on. Wallowing and crying about chechnya doesn't serve me any good....Taking care of my family will serve me much better.

You are selfish, you cant look beyond your own personal matters, I am Muslim HUMANIST and that is what Islam taught us to do , every single Muslim and muslimah in this world is MY BROTHER AND SISTER, their pain touches me directly. I think your upbrining has a lot to do with your lack of the concept of UMMAH.

I don't care about your version. I choose to have tolerance with haters and I think it's more effective...You choose your style and I choose mine, as you mentioned above, the pillars of Islam are five and fighting the haters is not one of the pillars.

Sure, you have your own way and I have mine, but if you look at pillar no.1 and what it means you will discover that witnessing the shahada entitles you to protect it, you cant just say the shahada and then turn your back and go home ! it must be followed by practical actions to implement it.

Respect is not earned when it's due...That's non civility and barbarism...Respect is a state of being for a muslim...A respectfull person is respectfull all the time even when he retaliates, regardless of your surrounding....you should remain respectfull.

that is your opinion, I dont share this opinion, The prophet (pbuh ) had no respect for the PAGANS and the JEWS who tried to kill him and who tortured and killed hundreds of Muslims, he drove them out from Arabia all together.

I learn by subtelty and observation.

But who will you observe if no one is acting Islamically in your surrondings ?

I learned about how to have a successfull marriage by watching my dad and mom have a loving relationship. I learned how to be a good mom by watching my mom, I learned how to be a good engineer by observing my good mentors behave.

Nice, but all this is EARTHY affairs, what did you learn about ISLAM ???

Don't label my dad please. Stop your labeling business because I'm sick and tired of it. There is no sticky label in your judgemental drawer that can describe my dad. So rest in peace and go to hell and rott well, cause you aint seeing my father there. Talk about me all you want, but talk again about my dad and your keyboards will come flying in your face. I think you have missed my other side.

So you get all angery when making personal observation, but you forgot your consistant remarks about me and my family !!

By the way, how will you make the keyboard fly into my face !! I did not figure out how you will do that yet ??

I know many respectable American muslim women, and I have one sister. I wouldn't expect you to understand their point of view, because they don't hang around your joint.

You see, you are again making assumptions about me...I dont get angry, I dont threaten you with flying keyboard, so much so for your words about respect !!

Anyway, here is a small gift for you, I like to listen to Andrea Bocelli so much, I want to give you this specific song as a gift from a brother who does not know you but yet appreciate you:

http://www.andreabocelli.it/bocelli_archivioaudio.htm#

Go to Cieli Di Toscana (2001 ) and chose MELODRAMMA...it is charming to listen to.....chill out akhti.....it is not worth it...save your keyboard.

 

[Flores]

Great but the thing is you deny you are Muslim, you say you are only submitter, make up your mind akhti ( sister ).

Being muslim is a state of being...It's not a label. That's why god said that we must die as muslims, in a state of Islam. In a state of peace and submission. I would feel like a hypocrite if I keep repeating to myself that I'm a muslim. My state of being must reflect my Islam, not the repetitious assertion to me and others that I'm a muslim.

Great, nice and wonderful, doing so means you are MUSLIM not submitter.

Why do you want me to do? Give myself a pat on the back and trophey and call myself Muslima???? I'd rather call myself sinner in need of forgivness than claim a trophey like muslima that god may not accept from me.
I would strive and like to be a muslima, but only god will give me that trophey, not you or myself. Only god can judge whether I'm a muslim/submitter/moemena...Me saying that I'm a muslim or moemena doesn't do anything to my case. God will decide wether my life is deserving of the title muslima.

Only one problem, convering your head when you pray.

Why is that a problem?? Covering the head by your admittance is only for strange men....God sees my private parts, so why do I need to cover my hair infront of god when I'm alone???? Please explain this point to me, because I have a hard time accepting that I need to cover myself in the company of god.

masha allah, they must be very cute, May Allah bless and protect them.

They are very cute indeed. You would like my 4 year old daughter very much if you meet her, despite the Hijab of course. She is pure, innocent, intelligent, and best of all, she's grounded in her thoughts about god. When my grandma died a few month ago, I was in tears and my 4 year old daughter was the most wise to say "But mama, grandma went back to her real home with god, just like we all will go back to god when we die". I asked her what does god look like, and she said, he looks like nothing else.

As long as you are not ONLY submitter, you are still safe.

Don't get too comfortable, noone is safe...Everyone is in danger zone until god saves them.

Here where we differ: The prophet (pbuh ) said: Muslims are like one body, if one part gets hurt, all the body feel the pain.

I do feel the pain for a lot of the muslims, but the muslims that I feel pain for do not include the hypocrite leaders like Mr. Arafat...So don't ask me to support Arafat, Mubarak, and Assad, just because they are muslims. Your average muslim is indeed my brother and sister and I stopped watching TV all together because I was crying too much, but there is nothing to do, because muslims must change their leadership first.

I am not preaching, I am confronting hate and LIES, I am not qualified to preach, but I am qualified to answer questions about Islam.

Perhaps you are qualified, but you're not always right....at least accept that.

beside, who told you I dont take care of my neighbours ? or I dont do good in my community ?? but this should not prevent you from your basic duty, do you know that in this time of clamity, JIHAD in all its forms is a DUTY on every muslim and muslimah ???

So what do you want me to do...give me a clear example? DO you want me to give up my life and family, move back to the middleeast and cry with the rest of the millions? I'm much better served here, at least I have noticed that everywhere that I have went, jobs, ect....people have never disrespected me or talked bad about Islam infront of me...I can't control what they do behind my back, but infront of me, they are at least afraid.

And our lives without Islam have no meaning as well, our lives with distorted and wounded Islam have no meaning as well.

I agree on the first part, but the second part doesn't mean anything to me....If my Islam is healthy, then that's all I have to worry about, if someone else have a wounded Islam or distorting islam, it's not my business...I see Atheists, Satanits everyday...I can't answer every dog's bark, my life would be consumed by failure.

Islam DOES NOT mean submission ONLY..it is not the end of discussion, are you sure you are not a memeber of this submission cult ???? :bugeye:

Please PM. I'm not a member of anything. And I out of all people fought so much with Ghassan Kanafani, formerly known as Alif Lam Mim, and before that known as Allah Mathematics. Islam does mean submition to Allah the one and testifying that prophet Muhamed is his last prophet and that the Quran is my book.

But who will you observe if no one is acting Islamically in your surrondings ?

Why are you judging my surrounding? In my view my surroundings is very Islamic. Don't be stuck on stupidities like the Hijab....I know that you are stuck on that subject, but that's not the only criteria to Islam. It's a mere recommendation. When I was young living in Egypt, I had many girlfriends who wore the Hijab. Many of them wore the Hijab as a symbol of virginity, yet they all had premarital sex. Do you know what is the number one surgery in Egypt...Restoration of virginity. They all ended up married with cheating and lying foundations...I don't have that, I was in sports all my life with little time for boys, and while my pictures in gymnastic suit was all over Egyptian papers, my body was as protected as could be.

Here in the State, I knew a girl in college who wore the Hijab. She was Indian. The Indian girl fell in love with a Pakistani boy and she gave herself to him with the exception of virginity. They used to have anal sex to protect her virginity. Later on, they broke up, and she traditionally married an Indian guy...He still think that she is virgin, and she tells me all the time that she is practically was virgin, because virginity is defined by breaking the hymn which doesn't happen in anal sex....What do you think about this Muhajaba virgin girl?

Nice, but all this is EARTHY affairs, what did you learn about ISLAM ???

I learned two things....Strive for success and pronounce that GOD IS GREAT..Allahu Akbar. That's the real prayer of Islam, not the repititious nodding actions. I look up in the sky and I say Allahu Akbar, my kids are born, I say Allahu Akbar, my research works, I say Allahu akbar, What else is there to learn??

So you get all angery when making personal observation, but you forgot your consistant remarks about me and my family !!

These were warranted for, did you forget that you started the evil by saying that I married my husband for a greencard????

By the way, how will you make the keyboard fly into my face !! I did not figure out how you will do that yet ??

Don't go there...I know you won't like it. I don't know how to hide my poison in honey, my venom is concentrate.

Anyway, here is a small gift for you, I like to listen to Andrea Bocelli so much, I want to give you this specific song as a gift from a brother who does not know you but yet appreciate you:

Why should I listen to her? That's very distracting, I'm trying to listen to you.

 

[spidergoat]

Do you know what is the number one surgery in Egypt...Restoration of virginity.

 

[Flores]

I'm not joking.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/Living/2020_hymenrestoration030620.html