If Islam is really bad, why ON EARTH then all these westerners are converting ????

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by Flores
There is nothing called Jew or Christian or this nonesense, there are believers and submitters to god, that's it, so yes, every person that be a prophet or a regular person who is humble enough to bow in submission to his god is qualified to be called a muslim.

By the way, notice the common theme. Abraham bowed to the floor in submission to god, Moses took his shoes off and bowed to god in submission. Jesus bowed to god. They are all submitters in the most powerful way.

Thanks for setting the record straight, yes only islam knows how to interpret Moses' & Jesus' life, we Christians & Jews must mend the error of our ways & submit to the truth, yes Jesus was a muslim! how foolish of Christians to think otherwise, yes Moses was a muslim!, how foolish of Jews to think otherwise.

Flores, you are the true flower of knowledge, speak to me of arabic truth,
Flores, you are the true flower of religion, speak to me of arabic ways
Flores, you are the true flower of history, speak to me of arabic past
Flores, you are the true flower of technology, speak to me of arabic future

Do not be mean, my unseen jellybean,
open thine cybermind, be not unkind,
let the petals of thy thought, be not fraught,
with dalliances of power, like a bright flower,
so find truth, by following Ruth?

*She was the Moabite woman that became an Israelite

Flores, my hint to you, if you want to know the truth about Jesus or Moses, why read the Bible, if Muhammad had been able to read the Bible in arabic & had been open to understanding it, as a Hanif (a seeker), he would have become a Christian (what I like to call a 'True Muslim' ). And I submit to you, become a true muslim, submit to Jesus as your Lord & Savior, as the ruler of the Last Day! Submit! So that you may be counted in the Book of Life!

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Re: Muslims are antisemitic?

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
Muslims and Jews spring from the same fountain of Semitism: both are descendants of Abraham (who was Muslim). Most people think Abraham was Hebrew or Jewish, but he wasn't. As you know, Abraham is the father of both Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael was the FIRST (and possibly only) son of Abraham with Hagar. Therefore, the sons and daughters of Ishmael should inherit his legacy.

Muslims profess peace. It's Xians that are blood-thirsty. When Xianity dies, and it will, we will all have the opportunity to learn about Islam, and then we will know the truth about the Bible.

thanks for setting the record straight, so even Abraham was muslim!!!??? who would have known? Why just reading the Bible, we Christians miss so much truth!

BTW, why do you use the term 'Xian', are you 'X'ing us out? or just wishing it?

Are you saying only muslims profess peace? because they make very good warriors for peace, yes indeed, a piece of this & a piece of that. Check the history books,
& don’t mention the Crusades until you check timelines & causative factors, (hint: conquest of Jerusalem in 637 AD:
http://www.jerusalemites.org/history_of_palestine/20.htm
& the Seljuk Turks hundreds of years later:
http://www.worldhistory.com/crusades.htm )

ask yourself, what was the first thing that islam did when it met the whole wide world outside of Arabia? Peace indeed.

Salaam you’ all

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Re: Randolfo

Originally posted by tiassa
Randolfo Please see my post entitled "(Insert Title Here)" on page 2 of this topic, dated 7.1.03. I address a similar question briefly. :m:,
Tiassa

read it, pretty good, still think you are a thinker

 

[Jenyar]

Just to set the record straight

Genesis 17
18 And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!"
19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

Ishmael is the father of the Arabs, while Isaac is the father of the Israelites. Abraham was neither.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Randolfo
Flores, my hint to you, if you want to know the truth about Jesus or Moses, why read the Bible, if Muhammad had been able to read the Bible in arabic & had been open to understanding it, as a Hanif (a seeker), he would have become a Christian (what I like to call a 'True Muslim' ). And I submit to you, become a true muslim, submit to Jesus as your Lord & Savior, as the ruler of the Last Day! Submit! So that you may be counted in the Book of Life!

Randolfo, Thanks for the poem, It made my day. But you and everyone around here know that I don't need anything that will contribute in making my head larger than it is, I can't fit in my office at work anymore.

First, you don't need to submit to me, I only submit to my god, and will never submit to Jesus or Mohamed or Moses or any prophet. I respect people, but I'm sorry my true submittion and salvation is with my god and the god of all prophets. And as Abraham once said,
" if you make the sun rise out of the west and set in the east to show me that my god is not in control, neither will I never abandon my beleif and submission to the god of the universe nor will I acknowledge your substitute gods."

 

[Flores]

Re: Just to set the record straight

Originally posted by Jenyar
Genesis 17
18 And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!"
19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

Ishmael is the father of the Arabs, while Isaac is the father of the Israelites. Abraham was neither.

Jenyar, Throughout the Book of Genesis, God promises Abraham that his descendants will be of great multitude. God didn't single out Abraham decendans many times. God says that he will make Abraham a great nation (Genesis 12:2). God says that the descendants of Abraham shall be as numerous as the dust of the Earth, (Genesis 13:16), and shall be in number as the stars of the sky (Genesis 15:5). God says that Abraham will be a father to many nations (Genesis 17:4) and that his descendants will have the land of Canaan (Genesis 17:8). God makes similar promises about Hagar, Ishmael and Isaac. God singles out Ismael and he tells Hagar that her descendants shall be a great multitude (Genesis 16:10). God tells Abraham that Sarah will be a mother of nations (Genesis 17:16). He says to Abraham that Ishmael will beget 12 princes (Genesis 17:20).
The key to the dispute comes at Genesis 22:17, when God says to Abraham: "I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heavens and the sand that is on the seashore."
Isaac was 14 years younger than Ishmael. When Abraham took his son to be sacrificed, that son appears to have been about 13. God several times refers to Abraham's son as his "only son." God says "Take now your son, your only son, Isaac." (Genesis 22:2). God says, "You have not withheld your son, your only son, from me." (Genesis 22:12).
Did God make a mistake?? Did God not know that Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac?
Obviously, God did not make a mistake. What really happened was that Isaac was not born yet. Ishmael, at age 13, was Abraham's only son. Isaac was born one year later. The Bible is in error.

Jenyar, the jews have substituted a few Ishmael with Isaacs througout the bible, but they forgot a few spots that will ever create controversies. Little do muslims care if the world stop looking down at them, but when the christians go as far as to look at Muslims as unlegitimate sons that we are aggravated. We are cousins for god sake.

 

[Quigly]

Obviously, God did not make a mistake. What really happened was that Isaac was not born yet. Ishmael, at age 13, was Abraham's only son. Isaac was born one year later. The Bible is in error.

.... *" Lets take a little out of the bible here and little out of it there, and lets keep this and throw this out. I guess its been about 1000 years from the time the first 5 books of the Old Testament were recorded and the Koran was written. Why shouldn't we be able to take some here and some there, I mean heck, it has been over a 1000 yrs...."

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Quigly
.... *" Lets take a little out of the bible here and little out of it there, and lets keep this and throw this out. I guess its been about 1000 years from the time the first 5 books of the Old Testament were recorded and the Koran was written. Why shouldn't we be able to take some here and some there, I mean heck, it has been over a 1000 yrs...."

I completely understand your frustration, but the questions are legitimate and we must face errors with bravery rather than defend them or we'l get consumed with errors.

 

[Jenyar]

I'm sorry, Flores, that was not what I implied. God did not make a mistake. The New Testament clearly says:

Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring–not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

The problem I have is that the Quran makes the Jews out as people who create their own lies and then believe them. The Quran never says which son was to be sacrificed - you can look for it but you won't find it. However, the covenant God made was with God's chosen son, Isaac - not Abraham's chosen son, Ishmael.

Isaac was the only promised son of Abraham (Sura 11:69-73, 37:112-113, 51:24-30)

"Akrama asked: `Who was supposed to have been slain?' Abdallah answered: `Ishmael!'
'Why?' asked Akrama.
Ben Abbas answered: `Because how can God pass the good news of Isaac's birth to Abraham, then order that he be killed?'
`I can bring you proof from the Koran that Isaac was supposed to have been slain'. Said Akrama, `Thus will thy Lord prefer thee and teach thee the interpretation of events, and perfect His grace upon thee and upon the household of Jacob as He perfected it upon thy fathers, Abraham and Isaac. Lo! Thy Lord is All-Knowing and All-Wise'. (Joseph 6).
`God's blessing to Abraham was by choosing him, and saving him', said Akrama, `and to Isaac by redeeming him from slaying'." (3: pp. 52-53).

The Bible also say the Arabs will submit to God. It is my belief that God sent Jesus to save the descendants of Ismael as well. But they were scattered and following other gods - that is why through He Muhammed reunited them and brought them back into submission before God. But Muhammed cannot save you, only God can. God chose to seal his covenant (which cannot be broken) of love and mercy through Jesus. Christians should submit to God's mercy through the example of Jesus - who was resurrected by God himself to indicate the power of His mercy, and so that we could glorify Him for it.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Jenyar
I'm sorry, Flores, that was not what I implied. God did not make a mistake. The New Testament clearly says:
Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring–not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

I agree, all Arraham's offspring, which is all of us, will be saved if we have faith in god.....No prejudice and prechosen stuff like usually told by christian schools.

Originally posted by Jenyar
The problem I have is that the Quran makes the Jews out as people who create their own lies and then believe them. The Quran never says which son was to be sacrificed - you can look for it but you won't find it. However, the covenant God made was with God's chosen son, Isaac - not Abraham's chosen son, Ishmael.

Some jews do make their own lies and some of them are condemend in the Quran, but not all of them, only those of them that chose the wrong way. God single out the jews in the Quran, because they are more responsible than the rest of us. Afterall, they were the first to recieve the revelation and instead of protecting it for generations to come, they indulged in corrupting it, and I see no reason to post the repeated Quranic verses that says that jews, christian, and all who have faith and do right will be blessed and they shall not fear.

Originally posted by Jenyar
Isaac was the only promised son of Abraham (Sura 11:69-73, 37:112-113, 51:24-30)

All these Suras speak of the prophecy of Isaac birth, Isaac birth was a miracle birth since his mom was past her child bearing years, but that's the only case made in the Quran.
`God's blessing to Abraham was by choosing him, and saving him', said Akrama, `and to Isaac by redeeming him from slaying'." (3: pp. 52-53).

Originally posted by Jenyar
The Bible also say the Arabs will submit to God. It is my belief that God sent Jesus to save the descendants of Ismael as well. But they were scattered and following other gods - that is why through He Muhammed reunited them and brought them back into submission before God. But Muhammed cannot save you, only God can. God chose to seal his covenant (which cannot be broken) of love and mercy through Jesus. Christians should submit to God's mercy through the example of Jesus - who was resurrected by God himself to indicate the power of His mercy, and so that we could glorify Him for it.

Well, my heart dance to the thought that you believe in Muhamed as a prophet of god. I agree with you that we are not save through Muhammed, of course not. We are only saved by god. If you select to say that you are saved through Jesus and not god, I have no problem with you and wish you the best, but the Quran speaks clearly about two types of christians, those who say Jesus is the son of god and those that say that Jesus is god and both are condemned to fire. So when I approach those people, I don't approach them with hate, contrary, I love them very much that I wish to warn them because I don't wish fire for anybody even on murderers and rapists.