If god is love, how can the world have so much hate?

Erinofeire said:
Interesting Spidergoat - I wouldn't have a problem with you if you did believe in this - but I would wonder quietly to myself where you got the idea and if there was the slightest shred of evidence to support your belief. :p
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Now you know how atheists feel. But why the taboo against open questioning?
 
Warrior61 said:
Lol good one. It was hard I must admit, but the fact that they are in order on my keypad helped tremendously. Also I don't keep up with your post history and didn't know that was a requirement.

Thank you,
His son,
><>Warrior61<><
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It's not. For instance, I have no real idea, except from your god delusion, whether you really are a moron or not.
 
spidergoat said:
Why build this intellectual wall around anyone's belief system?
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Not sure what wall you're talking about, but as a parent, when my kid has the same thing explained to him a thousand times and still does the same stupid shit, I have to start asking some serious questions. Like, did I raise a moron? Is there a lesion or tumor in his left parietal lobe? Has he been brainwashed by xians?

The point is that after thousands of years of theism, with zero compelling evidence to support any of it, and the world in such a continuous state of fuckedupedness largely due to it and the whole doctrine of "belief" systems, it seems like a wall, or a slap, or a shovel blade to the collective head of humanity is in order.
 
Erinofeire said:
How can non-believers truly say they know for a fact that God does not exist. That is pure ignorance. Many ignorant people do not believe because they cannot understand that which is not tangible.
Those who choose to believe do so because of the effects of God in their life and lives of others. Why attack someone for saying they believe in God? I pity those who do.
This is the first thread I came to after registering and it's kind of appalling.
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Obviously you've not read any other threads in the religious subforum of this science forum, as you've said above. Otherwise you'd know that few if any of those that don't believe in your god say they "know for sure" it doesn't exist.

I think first you'd need to specify which god it is that you're appalled at our disbelief. I think I missed that in your first and subsequent posts. Is it Zeus? Ptah? Or is it Yahweh? I suspect the latter, but I wonder if you believe in the former two? Or do you believe in the thousands of other gods of humanity, many of which are very contradictory and so varied that not even the most pantheistic can say they are all manifestations of a single deity.

Many ignorant people believe in gods simply because their parents did. Many ignorant people believe in gods to ease their worry about death. Many ignorant people believe in gods because they dislike uncertainty. Ignorance, it would seem, is a human characteristic, but not one that can be applied to the logical and reasoned response of atheism, which rejects supernatural causation to that which doesn't readily lend itself to explanation. It isn't enough to the reasoned and educated to simply say "god did it" when faced with the unknown.

So to correct one of your last statements above, those who choose to believe do so because of the perceived effects of a god in their life and lives of others. They imagine an effect, and therefore believe in the magical explanations rather than reality.

To all: Let's stay on topic, eh? Chit-chat in Aim or something
 
Medicine*Woman said:
*************
M*W: So, is god love? Prove it! Why does the world have so much hate? Why doesn't god eradicate the hate? Is he a vengeful god? If there were a god, he'd save the world (isn't that supposed to be what he was supposed to do?) Why does god bring hate to the world?
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God is love and hate. Creation and destruction.
On, and off. 1 and 0. Do you get it?

When there is too much hate in a species, that species usually goes extinct sooner or later, because that species will hate itself, it's habitat, it's planet, universe, etc.

Now, on the other hand you can still make the case that God is love. It would still be true, because God is both unity and seperation, both dimensions. The dimension of absolute unity, is a point. The dimension of absolute seperation, is the 3rd dimension of the material world. Change is the 4th dimension. God exists in all dimensions, through life and consciousness. Life is the machine. The universe is information, with consciousness as the interpreter.

So in reality, consciousness is all that exists, and nothing else outside of the mind exists. The universe is an expression of God's mind, and God has a dark side which we call the Devil. The devil is the hate that you speak of. The devil hates existance, hates the universe, and does not give a fuck about anything in it. God loves the universe, loves existance, and gives a fuck about everything in it.

I hope it makes sense to you. That is my religio-sophical definition of the God as love statement.
 
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God is love

to eradicate the hate, he'd have to eradicate everybody in the world, and with the exception of a small minority that is for whom/what Hell is. "..for whom the bell tolls..." (the aborted, stillborn and unaccountable are aqquitable before God.)
Don't 'forget' God is already p.o.'d about jesus' sterling treatment at our hands, and would be entirely justified to get rid of everybody, but for jesus' word to forgive if we believe Him. So your question leads you right up to the very gate of hell, with the existential dilemma ringing in your head.
Damned if you do ( inorder to believe the "Gospel" you must admit you are a sinner already)
and Damned if you don't ( Jesus said "..he that believeth not is condemned already..)
:p
 
Bruce Beal;1292369]to eradicate the hate, he'd have to eradicate everybody in the world, and with the exception of a small minority that is for whom/what Hell is. "..for whom the bell tolls..." (the aborted, stillborn and unaccountable are aqquitable before God.)
Don't 'forget' God is already p.o.'d about jesus' sterling treatment at our hands, and would be entirely justified to get rid of everybody, but for jesus' word to forgive if we believe Him. So your question leads you right up to the very gate of hell, with the existential dilemma ringing in your head.
Damned if you do ( inorder to believe the "Gospel" you must admit you are a sinner already)
and Damned if you don't ( Jesus said "..he that believeth not is condemned already..)
:p
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Which Gospel? I think the poster should check out the gnostic Gospels because it matches what he/she believes. Your version of God, is it the Calvanist version or the Lutheran? I don't know. I just know I will not take you seriously when you tell me what you think God feels about the death of his son.

Anyway you must be joking.
 
OK. So, we're clear now that god is love, and that fallen man is responsible for the absolute shithole state that the world is, and has always been in. So, since theists claim to know the mind, motives, and intensions of god, I will assume the same powers for myself here.

So, time for an analogy.

We are the children of god, he who loves us more than anything else (cuddly little beings that we are...)

We have been let loose to do as we see fit with this world and ourselves. Dad (god) gave us a wee sign 2000 years ago and a book that is now the equivalent of a manual for a RadioShack TRS80 "computer".

Dad is dissapointed in us. We've trashed the place. Debauched and destroyed each other. We ask dad for help all the time. Big help. Not just to pleas help with auntie bertha's broken hip, but big things.

Where is the effect of this all powerful cosmos creator (not Carl Sagan)? Are we to believe that god works in mysterious ways? That through subtle means undetectable to even xians, he is helping us?

I demand answers that make sense from you xians. Don't dance around the subject. The earth is fucked and you have the gall to say it's in the hands of some loving, kind and just god. Please be clear on this. How can you even like this bastard?

Come on. Act like adults and give me thge straight answers to these real issues.

Or be pussies as usual.

Good. All the moron themed posts cleaned up.
 
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superluminal said:
Not sure what wall you're talking about, but as a parent, when my kid has the same thing explained to him a thousand times and still does the same stupid shit, I have to start asking some serious questions. Like, did I raise a moron? Is there a lesion or tumor in his left parietal lobe? Has he been brainwashed by xians?

The point is that after thousands of years of theism, with zero compelling evidence to support any of it, and the world in such a continuous state of fuckedupedness largely due to it and the whole doctrine of "belief" systems, it seems like a wall, or a slap, or a shovel blade to the collective head of humanity is in order.
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I mean the notion that discussing religion is taboo, an off-limits subject.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
*************
M*W: There is maybe no point, but I like the conversation anyway. There is no god, but maybe some people still believe. I am curious why they still believe when it's been proven no god exists!
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The people who believe in God, believe in God because there is enough proof to them that there is a God.

Now, as for the people who believe in the traditional God in the sky, with the Earth as the center of the universe, that specific concept of God is losing steam and being replaced by newer concepts that are more scientific. The same science you rely on to try and prove there isn't a God, proves there is one.

Evolution proves there is a God to someone who believes in God, and to someone who does not believe in God, it proves there isnt. See?

It really does not matter if you believe in God or not because you use the same science to form your beliefs. Athiests rely on the same science to interpret the world as Thiests. So they both actually believe in the same reality and the difference is athiests believe we are machines, with no soul, and that there is no difference between a rock and a human beyond the fact that the human can move.

A thiest on the other hand believes that the human is different from the rock because the human has a soul. The soul being that which allows the human to control the rock. The soul being that which gives the human "I am", the self awareness, THAT is what scientists believe is God.

http://www.teleologic.org/
 
superluminal said:
OK. So, we're clear now that god is love, and that fallen man is responsible for the absolute shithole state that the world is, and has always been in. So, since theists claim to know the mind, motives, and intensions of god, I will assume the same powers for myself here.

So, time for an analogy.

We are the children of god, he who loves us more than anything else (cuddly little beings that we are...)

We have been let loose to do as we see fit with this world and ourselves. Dad (god) gave us a wee sign 2000 years ago and a book that is now the equivalent of a manual for a RadioShack TRS80 "computer".

Dad is dissapointed in us. We've trashed the place. Debauched and destroyed each other. We ask dad for help all the time. Big help. Not just to pleas help with auntie bertha's broken hip, but big things.

Where is the effect of this all powerful cosmos creator (not Carl Sagan)? Are we to believe that god works in mysterious ways? That through subtle means undetectable to even xians, he is helping us?

I demand answers that make sense from you xians. Don't dance around the subject. The earth is fucked and you have the gall to say it's in the hands of some loving, kind and just god. Please be clear on this. How can you even like this bastard?

Come on. Act like adults and give me thge straight answers to these real issues.

Or be pussies as usual.
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I gave answers. If you ask about the God in the bible, I cannot really defend that version of God.

We are God's children, that is true, and it is backed by science. Do you want to know what God is? Do you have free will? Or are you like the rock? God is the universal mind / soul. The universe does not exist in this form because matter is simply energy, kinetic energy. Perception is the key, because without anyone to percieve the matter, matter cannot exist. The universe would not exist if there were no God to percieve it.

A rock is not "real" because it has no self awareness. It does not really exist, it's just junk information that we organize with out mind. The rock is like clay, which we can mold into a new body, or into a machine like these computers. The silicon chip is an example of this.

The body is like clay, The brain is like the CPU in the computer. The brain only exists if you have perception, so once again nothing exists if you don't have self awareness.

The only thing this universe is, is a collection of your 5 senses, organized by logic and emotion. Beyond our ability to percieve, collectively as "life", nothing can exist, will exist, or has existed, because we are existance itself.

Does that make sense? Did it click in your brain yet?
 
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TimeTraveler said:
It really does not matter if you believe in God or not because you use the same science to form your beliefs. Athiests rely on the same science to interpret the world as Thiests. So they both actually believe in the same reality and the difference is athiests believe we are machines, with no soul, and that there is no difference between a rock and a human beyond the fact that the human can move.
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This is where you are tragically, horribly wrong.

Theists believe that GOD has rules that are not subject to question, and that only certain people are fit to interpret these rules, and if that means the genocide of entire sects of people who do not follow your god (the CORRECT one), then so be it.

TimeTraveler said:
I gave answers.
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You gave nothing. Less thanh nothing.
 
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TimeTraveler said:
God is the universal mind / soul. The universe does not exist in this form because matter is simply energy, kinetic energy. Perception is the key, because without anyone to percieve the matter, matter cannot exist. The universe would not exist if there were no God to percieve it.
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Why waste words, I figure.
 
TimeTraveler said:
...
The universe would not exist if there were no God to percieve it.
...
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Ooooh. The Ontological argument.

Damn, I haven't heard that in years.

Now why is that?

Oh, I remember now: it was trashed back in the 17th Century.
 
superluminal;1292389]This is where you are tragically, horribly wrong.

Theists believe that GOD has rules that are not subject to question, and that only certain people are fit to interpret these rules, and if that means the genocide of entire sects of people who do not follow your god (the CORRECT one), then so be it.
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There is not just one type of thiest. There are monotheists, polythiests, panthiests. Some of us believe god is in the machine, and thats something all thiests believe. Then you have athiests who just believe in the machine, meaning you are no different from the computer you use to access the internet.

I'm not sure why athiests what to be hardware instead of software, but ultimately thats the core of the debate. Thiests generally believe we are the software, athiests tend to believe we are the hardware. I think without the software there could be no hardware. I think the hardware came from the software.

The proof is, humans design computers today, but they DESIGN the hardware using their minds as a hardware generator. The mind represents the software, and we simply inject our mind into the hardware to create machines, robots, etc. I'm saying thiests believe that God injected it's mind into our hardware, and that only God exists, and that the hardware does not actually exist because matter is not real, it's not solid, it's just energy.

Proof, if you take water and freeze it, it becomes "hard" but it's still water. If the universe is all water, with some of it harder or softer, but it's all the same liquid, then the universe itself does not really exist as matter but as energy, and if that is the case, who are you to say that life is restricted to only existing within matter? how do you know life or consciousness did not exist before matter, as say, electricity, or something else, and then through the big bang created the matter later on?

How do you know time did not always exist? If time is eternal, that is proof that there is a God. If there is no beginning or end of time, meaning if change always existed, this means life always existed to guide that change. This is intelligent design.
 
glaucon said:
Ooooh. The Ontological argument.

Damn, I haven't heard that in years.

Now why is that?

Oh, I remember now: it was trashed back in the 17th Century.
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Prove it? Nothing exists beyond the mind. If you can prove something exists, that cannot be percieved by ANYTHING living thing, then you'll prove there isn't a God. If you can prove that anything can exist beyond perception you will have evidence. I don't think you can prove it because perception is all that exists, it's the universe itself. The so called 3d, is just perception, it's not REAL. Matter exists because of perception, it's not real.

The proof is, when you change the size, and go small enough, suddenly distance no longer exists, we call it non-locality.
 
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