If god is love, how can the world have so much hate?

[nova900]

Also: "Typical Abrahamic Arrogance" -- I don't want to sound bitter, but did it ever occur to you that just because one is of an Abrahamic faith, it doesn't mean one is arrogant? I do believe we, as people, are all entitled to our own beliefs.

I was not referring to individuals,rather the whole philosophy behind the Abrahamic faiths. Such as..."this is the only path to God,or your going to eternal hell"", or "all other religions are evil" This is when people like Billy Graham and Jack Van Impe and such really annoy me.
I have some christian friends and I will of course defend their right ,like I would yours, to believe what they wish. As long as they don't go off the deep end like so many "fundies" and go on a crusade to condemn athiests or people of other religous/spiritual beliefs.
My best wishes for you PieMistress

 

[Kendall]

First you would have to get down to the source of why you would hate, hate is a human emotion, anyone know if it is only a human emotion or what other animals can experience hate? I think that humans are the only being's to cry! Lack of communication(to and from-intentional or not), lack of control, lack of understanding, ignorance, greed, the denial of the truth(lies), I really hate when someone tries to fool, trick or lie to me, I do not hate them just the fact that well I get embarressed for them and do not know how to act and usually make them feel stupit.

 

[MrManNo1]

This will be my first, and probably last, post on these forums, as I can see that Christians are clearly not welcome here. I happened upon the forums and noticed that PieMistress was in dire need of assistance.

So, is god love? Prove it! Why does the world have so much hate? Why doesn't god eradicate the hate? Is he a vengeful god? If there were a god, he'd save the world (isn't that supposed to be what he was supposed to do?) Why does god bring hate to the world?

First of all, God does not bring hate into the world. Fallen man brings hate into the world as a result of pride and greed. Now, please assume, for the sake of argument, that God exists. Would you want to be controlled by Him like a puppet every time you had a lapse of judgment? That would be the only way hate would be removed from the world. He wants to give people a choice, and, unfortunately, many people choose the darkness instead of the light.

I am curious why they still believe when it's been proven no god exists!

What a ridiculous sentiment. The only way you could know for sure that there is no God is if you knew all of everything. If you honestly said you knew all there was to know, you would be ridiculed, as this is a blatant lie.

Does your god answer prayers? No. Proven by strictly controlled studies.
Does your god work miracles? I.e. things that defy known natural laws? No. Proven by all known test of such claims.
What else dosen't your "god" do?

Again, a ridiculous sentiment. God is not your slave, nor should you expect Him to be. There is significant reason to believe Jesus was resurrected (what happened to the body, why would his followers die for a known lie, why would Saul convert to Christianity when he would lose everything, etc., etc.), and if one miracle can occur, so can others. (I am well aware of the fact that many here probably vehemently oppose the idea of the Resurrection of Christ. However, that just shows your lack of expertise in the area.)

You have faith that god is there. The very admission that there is nothing better to recommend your god-thingy than a gut feeling. Good. Very good. Sleep tight tonight, wrapped in your blanket of ignorance, ummm... I mean faith.

The very Bible itself says, "Test everything. Hold onto the good." (1 Thess 5:21) How is that blind faith? Faith does not necessarily require a suspension of logic. If I had nothing to base my faith on, I wouldn't believe it. I need to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." (Matthew 22:37) Notice the mind part. You cannot love with your mind if you do not base your faith in logic. My faith is the logical extension from the fact that the Bible is unflawed in its prophecy, historicity and revelation to the idea that God, therefore, must exist.

You, like all theists, presuppose your conclusions.

Interesting sentiment coming from a (no doubt) evolutionary humanist. Read into your so-called "flawless" radiometric dating. The evolutionist looks at the data, and if it doesn't fit with what they want, they make up a reason that is not based in logic.

If 1 million people "pray" for help of some kind, and 1000 people get what they need (that's 0.1% - highly statistically insignificant) what do you think those 1000 people might think?

They'd think it a shame that the other 999000 people were praying to the wrong god, or had no true faith. The Bible quite clearly states that only those with faith will have their prayers granted. Why should God go out of His way to give other people what they want when they don't even believe in Him?

Nobody who counts...

Again, your evolutionary humanistic beliefs shine through. To the followers of "the Way, the Truth, and the Light", every single person counts. Why anyone would want to disbelieve in God to follow your "Some races are superior. We should eliminate the others" idealism is beyond me.

In the Abrahamic faiths he was assigned a personality that reflects much of the qualities of a bronze age tyrant. Loving to his most ardent followers and cruel beyond belief to those who commit the smallest infractions.

If you actually spent the time to read any of the Old Testament, you would find that God is actually harshest to His own people. This is because He was using this line of people to bring about His Son, and He did not want any blemishes on His Son's lineage. Therefore, He had to enforce ridiculous rules for them.

They have a lot of neat mythical stories,some a little crazy/funny in nature, but by and large they have nowhere near the bloodshed of the Abrahamic religions.

Perhaps you should do a little research on how Ra became to be the leader of the Egyptian deities. Talk about bloodshed...

I'm surprised at you PieMistress, why don't you just say "the Devil" and call it a day?
Satan causes the hate, God causes the love. It's good cop bad cop for all eternity.

It is nowhere near that black-and-white. Satan is a deceiver, nothing more, nothing less. He is given no actual powers of creation or destruction, and therefore is no more the cause of hate than men are. In addition, the Bible makes it clear that when God remakes the heavens and Earth, Satan will perish with the rest of the faithless.

"this is the only path to God,or your going to eternal hell"

I prefer to think of it this way: You would prefer a world with no God. God is just. Therefore, He gives you what you desire...a place where He will never show Himself or sustain.
Imagine you have an artificial habitat that needs constant human input (you control the amount of rain, when and where things grow, you clean up a lot of the mess). Now imagine that, for just a month you ignore your duties. The place will be a mess. Can you now imagine that place 1000 years from now? It would certainly be a hellish place to live.

With love,
Eric

 

[nova900]

A)My faith is the logical extension from the fact that the Bible is unflawed in its prophecy, historicity and revelation to the idea that God, therefore, must exist.

B)Interesting sentiment coming from a (no doubt) evolutionary humanist. Read into your so-called "flawless" radiometric dating. The evolutionist looks at the data, and if it doesn't fit with what they want, they make up a reason that is not based in logic.

[C)In the Abrahamic faiths he was assigned a personality that reflects much of the qualities of a bronze age tyrant. Loving to his most ardent followers and cruel beyond belief to those who commit the smallest infractions.[/I]

If you actually spent the time to read any of the Old Testament, you would find that God is actually harshest to His own people. This is because He was using this line of people to bring about His Son, and He did not want any blemishes on His Son's lineage. Therefore, He had to enforce ridiculous rules for them.

D)They have a lot of neat mythical stories,some a little crazy/funny in nature, but by and large they have nowhere near the bloodshed of the Abrahamic religions.[/I]

Perhaps you should do a little research on how Ra became to be the leader of the Egyptian deities. Talk about bloodshed...

E)"this is the only path to God,or your going to eternal hell"[/I]

I prefer to think of it this way: You would prefer a world with no God.

With love,
Eric

I'll reply to portions of your post according to the letters I put beside each section I wanted to reply to.

A) The bible is flawless? Laughable in the extreme! The contradictions are almost endless and cannot be explained away by "out of context" or other excuses. As far as prophecies fufilled, most are far too vague to be even considered as accurate. Others predicted in part 1 of the bible and then fufilled in part 2 mean nothing cosidering the authors of part 2 being aware of what was said in part 1 write something in part 2 to fufill so called prophecy.."voila" ..instant fufillment! Look at it this way..if these prophecies were so called accurate there would be no doubt about them.

B)Evolution is a fact. HOW it happens is still a theory of course and we are learning all the time. I know the usual .."radiometric dating " is flawed. How about the fact we see light coming from stars and galaxies, hundreds to thousands to millions and billions of light yrs away. Don't tell me, those methods of determining distance are also flawed

C)Another attempt to justify Yahwehs actions because of mans "sinfull" nature. I have read the Old testament btw, that's one of the main reasons I reject the bible as being the word of God. Un-spiritual in the extreme and a depiction of a god with more blood on his hands than Genghis Khan. He is simply a reflection of the unscrupulous ultra-patriarchial bronze age boneheads who dreamed him up.

D) In my post I was not saying the ancient egyptians, the people themselves, were a group of little sweetie pies. I realize full well that they engaged in much bloodshed themselves,slavery,conquest,etc. (As all ancient peoples did to one extent or another) I was referring to their spiritual stories and their basic concept of God. Research the 42 precepts of MAAT..written down thousands of yrs before the Old Testament was a twinkle in a hebrew tribesmans eyeball.

E) If you actually did read my post , you would see that I DO believe in God. In a spiritual way,like many others who reject the b/s of organized religion.
I believe in a God that represents unconditional love and selfless service.
Go to :http://www.victorzammit.com/ and read his arcticles and letters addressed to Billy Graham and others. I agree with his views here tottally.
He feels he is at LEAST providing some kind of empirical evidence of the afterlife. You are doing nothing more that rambling on in long winded dogma about the bible being the authority of God. Even I can't provide atheists with empirical evidence(unless you consider some of Zammits work as such) on proof of a very basic concept of God .What makes you think they will accept the dogma riddled mess called the bible??
Thats why I don't go on a crusade to preach to atheists or others.

Why are are you willing to leave so soon after one post. You un-willingness to debate says it all.
Anyways, all the best to you!

 

[geeser]

This will be my first, and probably last, post on these forums,

welcome, and I hope not, surely you have strong shoulders and can argue your side.

as I can see that Christians are clearly not welcome here.

there are a lot of religious members here, if you make a claim, you should be able to back up that claim, so be prepared for that, after all it is a science forum, with a religious sub forum.

I happened upon the forums and noticed that PieMistress was in dire need of assistance.
First of all, God does not bring hate into the world. Fallen man brings hate into the world as a result of pride and greed.

how so, please elaborate.
and if your going to say adam and eve, be assured you will get a lot of counter arguements, especially if your going to use the words pride and greed.

Now, please assume, for the sake of argument, that God exists. Would you want to be controlled by Him like a puppet every time you had a lapse of judgment?

ok, but I dont understand, is'nt that whats happening to you, at the moment arn't you a slave to god a sheeple, one of his flock. I would not want to be a slave to nobody, and I not.

That would be the only way hate would be removed from the world.

again how so, he put it there he can take it away.

He wants to give people a choice, and, unfortunately, many people choose the darkness instead of the light.

isn't your god all seeing, all knowing, ie omniscience, then isn't your life predetermined. so what choice has he gave you.

What a ridiculous sentiment. The only way you could know for sure that there is no God is if you knew all of everything. If you honestly said you knew all there was to know, you would be ridiculed, as this is a blatant lie.

well I agree, I dont know what person said that, it is infantile to say such a creature cannot exist, but it is even more unreasonable to believe one does, but we can only be 99.9% sure it does'nt.

Again, a ridiculous sentiment.

but satistically correct, there is no proof any prayer ever worked, but to you and your religious kin, you believe it has, but sorry there is no objective proof.

There is significant reason to believe Jesus was resurrected (what happened to the body, why would his followers die for a known lie, why would Saul convert to Christianity when he would lose everything, etc., etc.), and if one miracle can occur, so can others. (I am well aware of the fact that many here probably vehemently oppose the idea of the Resurrection of Christ. However, that just shows your lack of expertise in the area.)

firstly there is no proof a jesus person every existed, you first have to establish that, people kill themselves for there beliefs everyday, but the dont kill themselves for a known lie, the believe it to be the truth. we only have the bibles word that saul existed and converted, establish a fact base and then use the arguements.

The very Bible itself says, "Test everything. Hold onto the good." (1 Thess 5:21) How is that blind faith? Faith does not necessarily require a suspension of logic. If I had nothing to base my faith on, I wouldn't believe it.

then show us your factual base, we would be very interested.

My faith is the logical extension from the fact that the Bible is unflawed in its prophecy, historicity and revelation to the idea that God, therefore, must exist.

are you really really sure on that.

Interesting sentiment coming from a (no doubt) evolutionary humanist. Read into your so-called "flawless" radiometric dating. The evolutionist looks at the data, and if it doesn't fit with what they want, they make up a reason that is not based in logic.

I dont like to debate ID vs evolution but some do, and you are having a laugh are'nt you.

They'd think it a shame that the other 999000 people were praying to the wrong god, or had no true faith. The Bible quite clearly states that only those with faith will have their prayers granted. Why should God go out of His way to give other people what they want when they don't even believe in Him?

but which god is the right god, there are thousands. why is yours the right one, how do you know, why are you so sure, when other religions are equally sure. your place of birth, decided which god you believed in. so why are you so sure.

If you actually spent the time to read any of the Old Testament, you would find that God is actually harshest to His own people. This is because He was using this line of people to bring about His Son, and He did not want any blemishes on His Son's lineage. Therefore, He had to enforce ridiculous rules for them.

and if you actually took the time you, you'll find were he was harshest he allowed his own people to do the same to there enemies, and arn't we all gods people.

It is nowhere near that black-and-white. Satan is a deceiver,

but according to your bible not a mass murderer, he shares one killing with god, all the millions of other murders were dont by you god.

 

[nova900]

Again, your evolutionary humanistic beliefs shine through. To the followers of "the Way, the Truth, and the Light", every single person counts. Why anyone would want to disbelieve in God to follow your "Some races are superior. We should eliminate the others" idealism is beyond me.

With love,
Eric

But isn't this what the bible states??...some races are better than others..as in the "jewish people" are the chosen ones. Does not "chosen people" imply superiority?
As far as eliminate others "idealism"..Is this not what the God of the bible clearly instructed the ancient hebrews to do??: Go into neighbouring rival cities and towns and destroy their symbols,idols and the people themselves??
As the god of the bible used to so fondly say.."Utterly destroy"

 

[superluminal]

This will be my first, and probably last, post on these forums

Good.

What a ridiculous sentiment. The only way you could know for sure that there is no God is if you knew all of everything. If you honestly said you knew all there was to know, you would be ridiculed, as this is a blatant lie.

And you know for sure there is one? Pray tell, how?

Again, a ridiculous sentiment. God is not your slave, nor should you expect Him to be. There is significant reason to believe Jesus was resurrected (what happened to the body, why would his followers die for a known lie, why would Saul convert to Christianity when he would lose everything, etc., etc.), and if one miracle can occur, so can others. (I am well aware of the fact that many here probably vehemently oppose the idea of the Resurrection of Christ. However, that just shows your lack of expertise in the area.)

No. There was no christ or any sort of ressurecction.

The very Bible itself says, "Test everything. Hold onto the good." (1 Thess 5:21) How is that blind faith? Faith does not necessarily require a suspension of logic. If I had nothing to base my faith on, I wouldn't believe it. I need to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." (Matthew 22:37) Notice the mind part. You cannot love with your mind if you do not base your faith in logic. My faith is the logical extension from the fact that the Bible is unflawed in its prophecy, historicity and revelation to the idea that God, therefore, must exist.

Stupidest statement I've ever heard, and a blatant lie. The bible is flawed in many, many significant ways, and you know it. Liar.

Interesting sentiment coming from a (no doubt) evolutionary humanist. Read into your so-called "flawless" radiometric dating. The evolutionist looks at the data, and if it doesn't fit with what they want, they make up a reason that is not based in logic.

Bullshit and a lie. And again, you know you're lying. Radiometric dating is not "flawless" but is confirmed by multiple correllations with other radiometric and geological methods.

They'd think it a shame that the other 999000 people were praying to the wrong god, or had no true faith. The Bible quite clearly states that only those with faith will have their prayers granted. Why should God go out of His way to give other people what they want when they don't even believe in Him?

What an insanely flawed way of looking at the world. I pity you. How do you know anything about the natures of the other people or their prayers? Presupposing your conclusions again? How dull.

Again, your evolutionary humanistic beliefs shine through. To the followers of "the Way, the Truth, and the Light", every single person counts. Why anyone would want to disbelieve in God to follow your "Some races are superior. We should eliminate the others" idealism is beyond me.

You retard. You know nothing about me, yet you extend one sarcastic statement to form a whole picture of me. Oh. That's the same thing you do with your god thingy. No suprise there.

With love,

Liar. Your very responses show you for the cultist hate-monger that you are. You have the right god. How incredibly arrogant and selfrighteous you are. And a liar to boot. You're definitely going to my asteroid hell replica.

 

[spidergoat]

MrManNo1,

Christians are welcome here, it's just that some don't seem to like having their beliefs questioned.

 

[Erinofeire]

How can non-believers truly say they know for a fact that God does not exist. That is pure ignorance. Many ignorant people do not believe because they cannot understand that which is not tangible.
Those who choose to believe do so because of the effects of God in their life and lives of others. Why attack someone for saying they believe in God? I pity those who do.
This is the first thread I came to after registering and it's kind of appalling.

 

[spidergoat]

They don't really. This non-believer says that I don't know for a fact that there isn't a small statue of Mohammed Ali buried 1 mile under the south pole of Mars, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to believe in it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Did any of you religious morons notice the after the statement? Do any of you know anything about my post history? No? Morons.

I'm suprised you made it to seven.

Theists are the worst bunch of hyppocrites on the planet. Peace, love tolerance... guess who practices those the most? Atheists. Simply because we have no idiotic predetermined cult leaders to appease. I still can't believe how arrogant and sanctimonius theists really are.

I hope all that love and tolerance isn't contagious.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

How can non-believers truly say they know for a fact that God does not exist. That is pure ignorance. Many ignorant people do not believe because they cannot understand that which is not tangible.
Those who choose to believe do so because of the effects of God in their life and lives of others. Why attack someone for saying they believe in God? I pity those who do. This is the first thread I came to after registering and it's kind of appalling.

*************
M*W: Fasten your seat belt, dearie, you are in for one hellova ride!

 

[superluminal]

How can non-believers truly say they know for a fact that God does not exist. That is pure ignorance. Many ignorant people do not believe because they cannot understand that which is not tangible.
Those who choose to believe do so because of the effects of God in their life and lives of others. Why attack someone for saying they believe in God? I pity those who do.
This is the first thread I came to after registering and it's kind of appalling.

What's even more appalling is your complete and total lack of critical thinking skills. How can you say there is a god? Based on your own subjective experiences, you extrapolate to a god who rules us all? That's appallingly ignorant. And most of us atheists are pretty sure there's no god, but we usually don't say so for sure. There could be some form of universal being, however unlikely. But the god of the bible has been conclusively proven to not exist. Get used to it.

 

[Warrior61]

This will be my first, and probably last, post on these forums, as I can see that Christians are clearly not welcome here. I happened upon the forums and noticed that PieMistress was in dire need of assistance.

I must say your first post was great. Please stay on Sciforums. Assuming from what you say I would say you are a Christian. So from one brother to another please stay. There is so much to learn from here. Anyways thankyou for your input and actually posting but please don't just leave because Christians aren't welcomed here. They just act like that because they realize they can't make us leave. The real intelligent ones will tell you to stay. LOL Mostly because they want to disprove us more than teach us but hey that is why we all argue.

They'd think it a shame that the other 999000 people were praying to the wrong god, or had no true faith. The Bible quite clearly states that only those with faith will have their prayers granted. Why should God go out of His way to give other people what they want when they don't even believe in Him?

This is where I would add "God answers prayers according to his will."

Also I can't say hate is apart from God because Scripture does say God hates sin. Also thanks for helping. Anyways stay and debate for the soul purpose of our calling. Do me a flavor and read 1Peter 3:15 and then Colossians 4:2-6

Thank you,
His son,
><>Warrior61<><

 

[Erinofeire]

They don't really. This non-believer says that I don't know for a fact that there isn't a small statue of Mohammed Ali buried 1 mile under the south pole of Mars, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to believe in it.

Interesting Spidergoat - I wouldn't have a problem with you if you did believe in this - but I would wonder quietly to myself where you got the idea and if there was the slightest shred of evidence to support your belief.

 

[superluminal]

I hope all that love and tolerance isn't contagious.

But it is! Compared to any theist, atheists are infinitely less likely to bring some stupid ideology to a relationship or interaction with people. Get used to it. You theists are judgemental, arrogant, all-knowing interpreters of the mind of your god-thingies.

 

[S.A.M.]

But it is! Compared to any theist, atheists are infinitely less likely to bring some stupid ideology to a relationship or interaction with people. Get used to it. You theists are judgemental, arrogant, all-knowing interpreters of the mind of your god-thingies.

haha

 

[superluminal]

This is where I would add "God answers prayers according to his will."

Which is indistinguishable from random chance. You all are seriously deluded.

 

[superluminal]

I pray to my God that your knickers will untwist

1) I don't wear "knickers" (at least I don't think I do...)
2) If they did untwist, you would attribute this to your god?

 

[Warrior61]

Did any of you religious morons notice the after the statement? Do any of you know anything about my post history? No? Morons.

I'm suprised you made it to seven.

Lol good one. It was hard I must admit, but the fact that they are in order on my keypad helped tremendously. Also I don't keep up with your post history and didn't know that was a requirement.

Thank you,
His son,
><>Warrior61<><