If god is love, how can the world have so much hate?

[nds1]

Lightgigantic,

Question 1:

If one worshiped a golden calf and physically tortured his or her self everyday in sacrifice to that golden calf, is there any way he or she could possibly go to heaven?

Question 2:

Let's say there is an atheist who has a family and loves them. Let's also say that an evil man broke into the atheist's house with a gun, gathered the family into one room and presented an option to the atheist. He asked the atheist: "Either you let me brutally torture you and then kill you slowly, or I kill your family." Let's say the atheist chooses his family over himself, and sacrifices his life for his family, along with the notion of being tortured. Does the Hindu God see this sacrfice as enough for approval into heaven, or does the lack of belief in a supreme being automatically make it impossible to be accepted into heaven?

 

[SkinWalker]

It seems that lightgigantic did not bother to respond. And the ORIGINAL question was already answered -no reason to repeat.

I apparently missed it. Being that it was a "yes" or "no" question, which of the two was his answer? And LG didn't respond because I poisoned the well. He's predictable that way.

 

[lightgigantic]

Lightgigantic,

Question 1:

If one worshiped a golden calf and physically tortured his or her self everyday in sacrifice to that golden calf, is there any way he or she could possibly go to heaven?

not really, since there is no clear link between the golden calf - but even if it was connected somehow it becomes difficult to understand why god would be sufficiently satisfied by a person undergoing unnecessary suffering.

The only benefit would perhaps be that the practitioner would be recognizing some power greater than themselves - religious principles that operate out of harming or destroying oneself or others under the sway of malice, envy, lust etc are the lower grades.

A lot of tantric practices are like this, and certainly appear to be quite a distance from the perfectional stage of religiousity

BG 18.55: One can understand Me as I am, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of Me by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.

Question 2:

Let's say there is an atheist who has a family and loves them. Let's also say that an evil man broke into the atheist's house with a gun, gathered the family into one room and presented an option to the atheist. He asked the atheist: "Either you let me brutally torture you and then kill you slowly, or I kill your family." Let's say the atheist chooses his family over himself, and sacrifices his life for his family, along with the notion of being tortured. Does the Hindu God see this sacrfice as enough for approval into heaven, or does the lack of belief in a supreme being automatically make it impossible to be accepted into heaven?

regardless of one's belief or disbelief in god, entrance into the eternal spiritual realm is dependent on understanding god through a service attitude

BG 11.54: My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding.

what you are describing is an act of karma - it is certainly pious for a person to act in such a way that you mentioned, and such pious activities are certainly elevating, but such elevation only pertains to the material creation (from material heavens to material hells)
In other words if a person consistently behaved in a pious manner they would get a better birth in the next life, and such piety in the human form of life culminates until one gets the opportunity to accept the practice of spiritual life, which is distinct from securing piety for one's own gratification or avoiding what one may conceive of as unpleasant

BG 18.66: Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

In other words the real religion that grants entrance to the real heaven is surrender to god (and subsidiary forms of religion revolve around notions of piety as the be all and end all of religiosity)

 

[nds1]

religious principles that operate out of harming or destroying oneself or others under the sway of malice, envy, lust etc are the lower grades.

A lot of tantric practices are like this, and certainly appear to be quite a distance from the perfectional stage of religiousity

So merely duplicating the selfless acts or principles of religion is suboptimal in attaining transendence if those acts are being carried out without an accompanying mental belief of a specific type of supreme being. If I believed, for example, that the sun was God, and I worshipped it with the same exact acts of selflessness that I would have with a different God, then it wouldn't be enough for heaven since my worship and sacrfice in not accompanied by a mental belief in a specific type of God.

 

[Nutter]

Threads like this provide a means of self-justification for those whose faith in the nonexistence of God is so weak that they just can't stop thinking about it.

By rehashing their dognmas over and over, these individuals hope to strengthen their faith by indoctrinating one another with the finely tuned nuances of their tenuous beliefs.

Pray for a brain.

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

God bless you.

 

[lightgigantic]

So merely duplicating the selfless acts or principles of religion is suboptimal in attaining transendence if those acts are being carried out without an accompanying mental belief of a specific type of supreme being.

service to god is carried out on the platform of selflessness, just like one eats a meal off the platform of a plate (ie just as no sustenance is received from a plate, no attainment of transcendence is achieved by merely abnegating the self)

If I believed, for example, that the sun was God, and I worshipped it with the same exact acts of selflessness that I would have with a different God, then it wouldn't be enough for heaven since my worship and sacrfice in not accompanied by a mental belief in a specific type of God.

I don't understand what you are saying because if one worshiped the sun one would be worshiping it specifically as god
on the side however, transcendence is not merely attained by "doing the ritual correctly" but by receiving the personal blessing of god (it is something that is bestowed rather than something attained). And the best recommendation to attain this (in other words even though it is 'bestowed' that is not the excuse we have bit looking for to sit on our laurels) is not necessarily to act in such a way as to see god but to act in such a way that god wants to see you

 

[Grantywanty]

*************
M*W: So, is god love? Prove it! Why does the world have so much hate? Why doesn't god eradicate the hate? Is he a vengeful god? If there were a god, he'd save the world (isn't that supposed to be what he was supposed to do?) Why does god bring hate to the world?

Because God made mistakes. One of those mistakes was distrusting portions of God himherself. Many religions try to train us to do the same, not noticing that God caught on, learned from the mistakes and does not want us to repeat them anymore.

 

[Godless]

Because God made mistakes.

then why call it god? is "it" not, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, perfect in every way, god supposedly is incapable of mistakes, yet you claim that the invisible entity, the one who is "unknowable" made a mistake? LOL...How do you know?

 

[silverhorse]

*************
M*W: So, is god love? Prove it! Why does the world have so much hate? Why doesn't god eradicate the hate? Is he a vengeful god? If there were a god, he'd save the world (isn't that supposed to be what he was supposed to do?) Why does god bring hate to the world?

Human has hate, not God. You confuse them, human created disater not God.

 

[Godless]

Human has hate, not God. You confuse them, human created disater not God.

So I suppose you neglet those parts of the buybull that clearly depicts god's wrath, the flood, the ordering of killing all those who oppose his mandates, the stoning of children for not obeying parents, and so on, and so on.. Do us a fucking favor read your godamn buybull!!

 

[spidergoat]

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

God bless you.

He did.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Because God made mistakes. One of those mistakes was distrusting portions of God himherself. Many religions try to train us to do the same, not noticing that God caught on, learned from the mistakes and does not want us to repeat them anymore.

*************
M*W: If god made mistakes, he could not be god. There's a rule about that. You make god sound like he's human. That breaks another rule. Because he made mistakes and broke rules, he's can't be god, now can he? So, let's face it, god just doesn't exist. That's my rule!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Human has hate, not God. You confuse them, human created disater not God.

*************
M*W: I don't confuse humans with god. I believe in humans.

 

[lightgigantic]

So I suppose you neglet those parts of the buybull that clearly depicts god's wrath, the flood, the ordering of killing all those who oppose his mandates, the stoning of children for not obeying parents, and so on, and so on.. Do us a fucking favor read your godamn buybull!!

So I suppose you artificially inflate peripheral and circumstantial sections of scripture that clearly depicts god's wrath, the flood, the ordering of killing all those who oppose his mandates, the stoning of children for not obeying parents, and so on, and so on at the expense of comprehending essential teachings. Do us a fucking favor read your godamn scriptures properly!!

 

[SkinWalker]

So I suppose you artificially inflate peripheral and circumstantial sections of scripture that clearly depicts god's wrath, the flood, the ordering of killing all those who oppose his mandates, the stoning of children for not obeying parents, and so on, and so on at the expense of comprehending essential teachings. Do us a fucking favor read your godamn scriptures properly!!

So I suppose you neglet those parts of the buybull that clearly depicts god's wrath, the flood, the ordering of killing all those who oppose his mandates, the stoning of children for not obeying parents, and so on, and so on.. Do us a fucking favor read your godamn buybull!!

Guys... can we chill out with the F-Word please?

 

[lightgigantic]

Guys... can we chill out with the F-Word please?

I never type it - I do however copy paste it to try and reflect how futile it appears, especially in conjunction with tentative claims

 

[SkinWalker]

Yeah, whatever, LG.

 

[jessiej920]

Can anyone really define God? Since there is no proof of God then the word God pretty much means whatever the hell you want it to mean. What if someone applied a truth to the term God? Would he then be more real? It doesn't make sense. Someone could say their slice of pizza was God and who could tell them they are wrong? What if I say God is change? "All that you touch, you change. All that you change, changes you. The only lasting truth, is change. God is Change." Octavia Butler. Change always prevails therefore God always prevails. Is that proof of God?

 

[lightgigantic]

Can anyone really define God?

yes - that is the special significance of scriptural commentaries by saintly persons

Since there is no proof of God then the word God pretty much means whatever the hell you want it to mean.

hardly
If I assume god is $20 of fuel and ask a service station attendant for god they probably won't understand what i am talking about

What if someone applied a truth to the term God? Would he then be more real? It doesn't make sense.

your statement only appears to make sense if one accepts that god doesn't exist ... which begs the question how did you work out that ...????

Someone could say their slice of pizza was God and who could tell them they are wrong?

someone who works at pizza hut for a start

What if I say God is change? "All that you touch, you change. All that you change, changes you. The only lasting truth, is change. God is Change." Octavia Butler. Change always prevails therefore God always prevails. Is that proof of God?

That's a little bit better than my $20 of fuel and your slice of pizza, the reason being that change is accepted as a manifestation of the potency of god

SB 3.26.16: The influence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is felt in the time factor, which causes fear of death due to the false ego of the deluded soul who has contacted material nature.

SB 3.29.37: The time factor, who causes the transformation of the various material manifestations, is another feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Anyone who does not know that time is the same Supreme Personality is afraid of the time factor.

BG 10.30 kālaḥ kalayatām aham - among subduers I am time

BG 11.32 kālo 'smi loka-kṣaya-kṛt pravṛddho - Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people.

etc etc