If atheism makes you mean why does religion turn people into killers?
- Thread starter w1z4rd
- Start date
w1z4rd
Valued Senior Member
No.. just an answer to the original question.. one I dont think you are well equipped to answer honestly. Ill wait for other opinions.
Dawkins devotes an entire chapter, "What's Wrong With Religion? Why Be So Hostile" in The God Delusion to this phenomenon. Firstly, he explains how The dark side of Absolutism coupled with How "Moderation" in Faith Fosters Fanaticism turns normal people into suicide bombers.
He quotes Sam Harris when questioned as to why anyone would destroy the WTC:
"The answer to this question is obvious - if only because it has been patiently articulated ad nauseum by bin Laden himself. The answer is the men like bin Laden actually believe what they say they believe. They believe in the literal truth of the Koran. Why did nineteen well-educated middle-class men trade their lives in this world for the privilege of killing thousands of our neighbors? Because they believed that they would go straight to paradise for doing so. It is rare to find the behavior of humans so fully and satisfactorily explained. Why have we been so reluctant to accept this explanation?"
w1z4rd
Valued Senior Member
It makes me so upset to see how some religious beliefs make people think less.. and how it has slowed the progression of humanity, technology, information and human rights.
Though it does seem the world is slowly waking up.. and more and more people are opening their eyes.. but it just happens so slowly.
Though it does seem the world is slowly waking up.. and more and more people are opening their eyes.. but it just happens so slowly.
w1z4rd
Valued Senior Member
2.2 Million was the official count from the Bible (where figures are given). This didnt include the floods and other mass wide attacks.
Just think how many people every day die from sickness... hunger.. old age (all "Gods/Allahs will"). Think of all the stillborns (yup, God is the biggest abortionist as well).
However... this does go OT and down sams red herring.
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
Theist killers
Non-theist killers
Mean theists
Mean athiests
Some humans kill and they find excuses.
And those who want them to kill find excuses. And they keep working.
Non-theist killers
Mean theists
Mean athiests
Some humans kill and they find excuses.
And those who want them to kill find excuses. And they keep working.
An atheist cannot kill in the name of God. Satanists are theists also. No atheist can kill in the name of Satan. For every other excuse for killing, atheists and theists are equal. IOW's atheists always have less reasons to kill. Does this mean theists should have a greater propensity for killing, it sure looks like it does.
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
Well, you have a hypothesis....
Just to clarify....Excuses are equal sans the two extra reasons for theists to kill. Yes, an atheist may kill a theist for his beliefs, something a theist cannot do but a theist could kill an atheist for his non belief. The reasons may not be the same but are equal nonetheless.
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
Yes, I got that. It is still merely a hypothesis. However much you think you can deduce 'logically' that therefore theists kill more it may not cut it outside the world of abstraction.
Not going to say who is killing more without verifiable statistics. However I've read where atheists represent about 3% & theists 85% of the world's population. Roughly 28 times more theists than atheists who with two extra reasons to kill, kind of tilts the odds in favor of a killer being a theist.
That says more about you than you probably wanted to reveal.
This is an interesting topic and one that I've been putting together a blog post about but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Of course, it's important to note that not all religionists kill. In fact, very few, by comparisson kill in the name of their religion and/or god(s). But the fact that even a small minority do (and sometimes on a grand scale as we've seen with the World Trade Center attacks, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the various conflicts that are going on around the world today) is reason enough to inquire into the reason behind such heinous and horrible behavior.
There are, of course, those that would try to make the claim that atheists kill far more (the tired and worn Pol Pot/Stalin claim), but never -never- has an atheist ever said I'm killing because I'm an atheist. Not Stalin. Not Pol Pot. Not any atheist that I've ever seen. There, no doubt, exist such people -even they've never been publicized, but their incidence is so small that it pales in comparisson to religionists who are open about the supposed "rationale" behind their own horrible actions.
Here are but a few headlines and snippets from google:
Indian village proud after double "honor killing"
Teen girl in critical condition after alleged dispute over hijab
God told me to kill my baby
Washington: murder suspect: "I kill for god."
Man says he killed in the name of god
Killed in the name of god, youth killed for refusing 'donation.'
She killed in the name of god
Angel killed in the name of god; Shaunnah, Mum, Gran wiped out by Moslem (sic) gunmen.
Jehovah's Witnesses caught by police after killing spree in Russia
Church official calls killing spree a 'satanic' act
A lot of the links above are Muslim and Indian religionists, killing in the name of their imagined gods. But, make no mistake: given half the chance, Christian religionists would do the same. Take the case of Paul Hill, who is lauded as a "hero" but Christian nuts who operate the Army of God website, dedicated to anti-abortion fanaticism.
Its one thing to be opposed to abortion. Quite another to murder and commit terrorism in the name of your "cause." Paul Hill was a terrorist and a murderer. But these nuts call him a hero.
This gives some taste of the why some religious people become killers. They think their god(s) give(s) them authority to do so. They believe that the murders they commit are just and the will of their god(s).
Case in point is Christian, Terry Mark Mangum, a Texas man who believed that god "instructed" him to hunt down and kill a gay man. So he did. I linked to his story above, but google "Terry Mark Mangum" and see for yourself.
The BTK serial killer, David Rader was a Lutheran and a devout member of the church. His pastor believed (but only after Rader's extra-curricular activities became known to him) that Rader was "demon-possessed."
What about the 1-year old murdered by her mother for not saying, "amen?" Surely that isn't a command by god? Ironically (in the most tragic of ironies), the family's pastor pleaded guilty to molesting young boys, so the mother left the church and ended up with an even more sinister cult caled 1 Mind Ministries led by "Queen Antoinette" (I only wish I were making this up!) who keeps the small group in a tight-knit clutch "and operates under the extremely god-driven Queen's direction." True, they're crazy, but the trigger to murder here is religion and religious dogma.
Andrea Yates thought god was tellign her to sacrifice her children (in the tradition of the Abrahamic myth?), so she did.
Dena Schlosser wanted to give her child to god. So she did. By cutting off the arms fo her youngest daughter.
But, in an culture that makes it okay to kill in the name of god, why should it be expected that some of the strictest adherents who already happened to have some screws loose might not be willing to start "pleasing their god?" One of the central doctrines of Christian superstition is the "End Times", which entails the second coming of Jesus (the alleged Christ who is a couple thousand years late) and the "rapture" of all "god's children" to heaven, leaving behind all the heathens, unbelievers, atheists, satan's minions, lawyers, republicans, etc. There's even a special video game you can play in which you convert or kill atheists and non-believers for god until you earn your way into heaven.
The Left Behind game is an abomination to humanity and, if there was ever a video game that inspired someone to kill, it was this one. What better reason to kill than if you know you have a 'get out of jail free card' signed by the highest authority?
Of course, it's important to note that not all religionists kill. In fact, very few, by comparisson kill in the name of their religion and/or god(s). But the fact that even a small minority do (and sometimes on a grand scale as we've seen with the World Trade Center attacks, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the various conflicts that are going on around the world today) is reason enough to inquire into the reason behind such heinous and horrible behavior.
There are, of course, those that would try to make the claim that atheists kill far more (the tired and worn Pol Pot/Stalin claim), but never -never- has an atheist ever said I'm killing because I'm an atheist. Not Stalin. Not Pol Pot. Not any atheist that I've ever seen. There, no doubt, exist such people -even they've never been publicized, but their incidence is so small that it pales in comparisson to religionists who are open about the supposed "rationale" behind their own horrible actions.
Here are but a few headlines and snippets from google:
Indian village proud after double "honor killing"
Teen girl in critical condition after alleged dispute over hijab
God told me to kill my baby
Washington: murder suspect: "I kill for god."
Man says he killed in the name of god
Killed in the name of god, youth killed for refusing 'donation.'
She killed in the name of god
Angel killed in the name of god; Shaunnah, Mum, Gran wiped out by Moslem (sic) gunmen.
Jehovah's Witnesses caught by police after killing spree in Russia
Church official calls killing spree a 'satanic' act
A lot of the links above are Muslim and Indian religionists, killing in the name of their imagined gods. But, make no mistake: given half the chance, Christian religionists would do the same. Take the case of Paul Hill, who is lauded as a "hero" but Christian nuts who operate the Army of God website, dedicated to anti-abortion fanaticism.
Its one thing to be opposed to abortion. Quite another to murder and commit terrorism in the name of your "cause." Paul Hill was a terrorist and a murderer. But these nuts call him a hero.
This gives some taste of the why some religious people become killers. They think their god(s) give(s) them authority to do so. They believe that the murders they commit are just and the will of their god(s).
Case in point is Christian, Terry Mark Mangum, a Texas man who believed that god "instructed" him to hunt down and kill a gay man. So he did. I linked to his story above, but google "Terry Mark Mangum" and see for yourself.
The BTK serial killer, David Rader was a Lutheran and a devout member of the church. His pastor believed (but only after Rader's extra-curricular activities became known to him) that Rader was "demon-possessed."
What about the 1-year old murdered by her mother for not saying, "amen?" Surely that isn't a command by god? Ironically (in the most tragic of ironies), the family's pastor pleaded guilty to molesting young boys, so the mother left the church and ended up with an even more sinister cult caled 1 Mind Ministries led by "Queen Antoinette" (I only wish I were making this up!) who keeps the small group in a tight-knit clutch "and operates under the extremely god-driven Queen's direction." True, they're crazy, but the trigger to murder here is religion and religious dogma.
Andrea Yates thought god was tellign her to sacrifice her children (in the tradition of the Abrahamic myth?), so she did.
Dena Schlosser wanted to give her child to god. So she did. By cutting off the arms fo her youngest daughter.
But, in an culture that makes it okay to kill in the name of god, why should it be expected that some of the strictest adherents who already happened to have some screws loose might not be willing to start "pleasing their god?" One of the central doctrines of Christian superstition is the "End Times", which entails the second coming of Jesus (the alleged Christ who is a couple thousand years late) and the "rapture" of all "god's children" to heaven, leaving behind all the heathens, unbelievers, atheists, satan's minions, lawyers, republicans, etc. There's even a special video game you can play in which you convert or kill atheists and non-believers for god until you earn your way into heaven.
The Left Behind game is an abomination to humanity and, if there was ever a video game that inspired someone to kill, it was this one. What better reason to kill than if you know you have a 'get out of jail free card' signed by the highest authority?
The scary part is when people kill in the name of religion, they don't think they are being mean.
Defending an invisible god? Defending an ideology? Defending what exactly?
http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/music.html
it doesnt,..dont fall for S.A.Ms non sequitur fallacy horseshyt
yeah.. mindless robot