I saw my first alien/secret government anti gravity craft

[Mr Anonymous]

What im saying is the theory is the closer you get to the speed of light mass starts multiplying to infinite?

Mmmm, nope. By using the term infinite, or infinity, in associating with mass travelling close to the speed of light what a physicist means by that is the occurrence of a mathematical infinity: -1. One less than you need to balance the equation out. No matter how much energy you start out with its never enough to get the mass your trying to move travel any faster after a certain point - that threshold being the speed of light.

You're looking at the term infinite in the same sort of context of saying: "I once caught a fish, it was so big it occupied every conceivable direction I looked in for as far as the eye could see...."

It's a popular misnomer. Vibrations don't change anything.

There are different forms of light energy which have varying vibrational density. From what i read people who can have OBE at will travel instantaneously, i think that if we were evolved enough to be able to communicate telepathically it would be instantaneous as well, thoughts vibrate out of us like ripples in a pond. Isnt there some theory about particles quantum fluxing and having the possibilty of being everywhere at once? or something?...

In UFO lore? Undoubtedly. You're equating something not at all demonstrated as actually happening in the first place (OBE's) with something that simply sounds scientific - on a quantum level sub-atomic particles do appear to demonstrate the capacity of being able to occupy two separate points in space at the same time - its something termed as Quantum Interference which is used to illustrate the something called wave/particle duality - a descriptive term used in the very early days of Quantum Physics to describe the physical properties of fundamental particles.

It's somewhat out of date. Fact of the matter is our physical understanding of the universe as it stands is fundamentally split between Quantum Physics and Standard Newtonian - we're still trying to figure out how the two combine to make a unified model encompassing both sides of the divide accurately.

You'll read plenty of people theories from people on the internet claiming they have cracked this very thing - ask yourself why they haven't been published in a reputable Science journal and been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for their findings - this should really give you your first major clue.

About the "just knowing things" thing... i would say that i do listen to my intuition when i get a strong tug. But i try to be carefull about what i believe, i try to keep my knowledge structure flexible and absorbent in case i run across new info which fits the big picture of everything combined better than my previous info. Its an evolving process, and no i think i'll skip the science brainwashing hehe, its as bad as religion in some ways, i prefer to float about unfettered by constraints in most cases.

Right - so essentially, you like to keep an open mind - but accepted science is just some form of religion as far as your concerned, so you basically give it a skip, right?

How open minded exactly is that?

 

[barehandkiller]

Right - so essentially, you like to keep an open mind - but accepted science is just some form of religion as far as your concerned, so you basically give it a skip, right?

How open minded exactly is that?

Well i never claim to be perfect, just striving for it But I do not say oh thats science bah thats a load of crap. But i do think alot of what we think is the end all, final say in science will one day be partially or completely considered outdated and a part of history.
Peace

 

[(Q)]

But i do think alot of what we think is the end all, final say in science will one day be partially or completely considered outdated and a part of history.

That's nice, but you really should try to grasp current science so you know what it is you're talking about, and hence dispelling.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Well i never claim to be perfect, just striving for it But I do not say oh thats science bah thats a load of crap. But i do think alot of what we think is the end all, final say in science will one day be partially or completely considered outdated and a part of history.
Peace

Very well - that being the case however, what people claim to be cutting edge, next century physics today equally, by the turn of your own argument, seem destined to be relegated to the scrap heap of history - so what of all this talk about Quantum Fluxing and Dimensional Vibrations and all the rest of the quasi-scientific explanations for various phenomena UFO belief dictates the absolute truth of the matter.

By dint of your own reasoning here, it's bound to turn out to be bollocks.

So why wait for History? Why not just cut out the middleman and own up, hands in air, and admit - you really haven't the first clue regarding what you actually think you saw and what was actually there to be seen?

 

[barehandkiller]

I do think eventually the whole truth about the universe and its workings can can known(or generally at least). As for admiting i dont know exactly what it was i saw, that i easily admit too, i cant say "yeah it was model xyz from the planet venus etc.) but im quite sure it wasnt some swamp gas, ball lightning, astroid/meteor or whatever, etc. It was something which moved intelligently. And i think it was either a sphereical type craft or a disk with a anti gravity field(or energy field of some sort) around it which gave it the appearance of being a sphere.
Peace
Heres a video with promising stuff on antigravity, whole vi9deo is good but antigravity stuff starts at 1:20 or so.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8943205214784769158&q=free+energy

 

[Prince_James]

Disregard the video. It uses "metaphysics" wrong.

 

[barehandkiller]

Disregard the video. It uses "metaphysics" wrong.

Its a very interesting video with or without a incorrectly used word. Besides its a video talking to many different people about inventions, technology and various other things, just because one person uses a word wrong(and i doubt it was a calculated malicious purposefull mistake) it doesnt negate the whole video.
Peace

 

[leopold]

it isn't a UFO until you are willing to bet the family jewels on it.

 

[(Q)]

Its a very interesting video with or without a incorrectly used word. Besides its a video talking to many different people about inventions, technology and various other things, just because one person uses a word wrong(and i doubt it was a calculated malicious purposefull mistake) it doesnt negate the whole video.

It's a video full of crackpots pretending to know something about science. They use pics and videos of Einstein and Maxwell to attempt credibility.

 

[barehandkiller]

It's a video full of crackpots pretending to know something about science. They use pics and videos of Einstein and Maxwell to attempt credibility.

I agree with you in part, some of them are inventors or tinkerers, not scientists(and some of the inventions seemed pretty lame). But the focus of the video which i wanted people to see was the part 1:20 about John Hutchinsons work. Which looks very promising if took to a higher level. Its the effects he produces not his scientific credentials which are important IMO. About the videos i think what einstein was saying in the clips was very relevant to some of the projects worked on by a few of the people. Everybody puts so much belief into einsteins theory of relativity, so using such a powerful scientific persons own words about a topic such as the ether of zero point energy Is a good way to get people to look at the topic seriously, a good and smart move on there part.
Peace

 

[(Q)]

I agree with you in part, some of them are inventors or tinkerers, not scientists(and some of the inventions seemed pretty lame). But the focus of the video which i wanted people to see was the part 1:20 about John Hutchinsons work. Which looks very promising if took to a higher level. Its the effects he produces not his scientific credentials which are important IMO.

Hutchison is a loon, and has been unable to reproduce whatever effects he's claimed to produce. Kook.

About the videos i think what einstein was saying in the clips was very relevant to some of the projects worked on by a few of the people. Everybody puts so much belief into einsteins theory of relativity, so using such a powerful scientific persons own words about a topic such as the ether of zero point energy Is a good way to get people to look at the topic seriously, a good and smart move on there part.

Einstein's theory of relativity is science, the other crap on that video is referred to as pseudoscience, ie. nonsense.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

I do think eventually the whole truth about the universe and its workings can can known(or generally at least). As for admiting i dont know exactly what it was i saw, that i easily admit too, i cant say "yeah it was model xyz from the planet venus etc.) but im quite sure it wasnt some swamp gas, ball lightning, astroid/meteor or whatever, etc. It was something which moved intelligently....

... Actually y'know, that's a fairly acceptable answer right there. Start on about the anti-gravity stuff and it tends to go down hill from there - y'have to bear in mind, and I know you're getting this stuff about anti-gravity drives and all the rest of it from UFO sites - if these fellows actually knew jack, they'd be making the damn things and they'd work instead of just talking about them all the live long day.

There's an old expression, the proof is in the pudding - and if the proof of these kind of theories happen to be soley UFO's which bugger off just as soon as look at them - this isn't proof that these sorts of theories actually work - it's just chaps, the occasional chapess, spouting guff rather than just put their hands up and say "Well, actually, I haven't the first fuck to be perfectly honest..."

Y'seem like a pleasant enough sort BHK, but when y'think about it, if you assume a thing such as a UFO to be a craft of some sort and its entering the atmosphere from space, it actually doesn't need an engine to explain its behaviour - it just needs some means of maintaining and controlling its altitude, and curiously enough you'll find everything you need to wrap your noodle around that in a standard applied physics book... Presuming of course, y'care to look.

Think about what you actually saw, not what you think about it, but what you actually observed - being honest, there's actually no possible way either you or anyone else for that matter can conceivably observe an object such as you describe seeing and know for any kind of fact that the thing observed itself remains in anyway, shape or form capable of interstellar travel.

You make no claim of observing it doing anything of the sort, neither, when you bone up on the subject, actually does anyone else - they just relay descriptions such as your own, unusual object, not a plane, moving as if intelligently guided here in Earths atmosphere.

So, where does all this garbage concerning the capacities of such objects to be able to traverse the enormous gulfs of interstellar space come from? People such as yourself relaying what they actually know to have observed or UFO "experts" - those who apparently give all the right sounding answers yet actually don't manage to explain a single damn thing, really, when you get down to it...

Recollect your observation clearly and tell me honestly that you know for a fact that what you saw can cross interstellar space - it's a rhetorical question, because we both know that you can't say that based on what your eyes relayed - if you want to find the truth of a matter, concentrate only on what is present - then see if there remains any need to throw out the physics book...

Learn to recognise the difference between observation and presumption regarding what one thinks one see's - and eventually y'might actually get somewhere with finding things out about what you actually saw - but you've got to be prepared to think - don't just accept the first thing that sounds like an answer and expect it to be the truth.

A lie always tells you what you want to hear the most first....

 

[barehandkiller]

Replying to the last poster, if it was in fact a craft with a being aboard maybe it didnt have to cross much space at all? Maybe theres life on(or inside) all the planets, moons which occupy our solar system. They could live in underground cities or encapsulated surface structures. This is just a theory but it gets past all that FLT stuff. And makes it easier to understand how they are able to get here if there is in fact no way to beat the speed of light.
Peace

 

[Mr Anonymous]

... Y'know, I don't often say this, but that's actually quite an interesting posit - never seriously thought about that one before, I'm obliged. I'll get back to you....

 

[Stryder]

Hutchison is a loon, and has been unable to reproduce whatever effects he's claimed to produce. Kook.

I disagree with you, Hutchison is able to reproduce his effects however in documented sense they appeared initially uncontrollable, however this is understandible due to the nature of his experiments. Afterall if you alter the shape or frequency of a probability matrix you'd find yourself with results spawn by probability itself. To recreate effects time and time again would mean having to order chaos.

Hutchison might appear odd to some because he doesn't fit the usual classic depiction of Scientist, however without such people taking fresh approaches to otherwise deserted consensus ridden pop-science area, it would not spawn fresh interest in continued research.

The only concern for anybody working on their own or outside of the consensus beaten path is that there are certain Ethical, Moral and Safety issues that Science Councils attempt to educate on that some people don't necessarily know about.

 

[phlogistician]

Replying to the last poster, if it was in fact a craft with a being aboard maybe it didnt have to cross much space at all? Maybe theres life on(or inside) all the planets, moons which occupy our solar system. They could live in underground cities or encapsulated surface structures. This is just a theory but it gets past all that FLT stuff. And makes it easier to understand how they are able to get here if there is in fact no way to beat the speed of light.
Peace

Don't you think though, that there would be something detectable on the outside of the planet? Do these creatures not have radio-telescopes like we have? Do they not broadcast any detectable signal? Are they so advanced they no longer use anything we can detect?

Are you implying that they have evolved inside a cave system, and never constructed outside that environment? They could have no artificial satellites around their planet we can detect either.

It's hard to imagine a technology that would afford them this lifestyle, and a society that would not communicate with us if is knew were here at the same time.

I would expect some clue that they existed, reflected radio signals from when they used 'old' technology' perhaps? Their 'old' space junk satellites floating around after they were made obsolete? If these creatures were to exist as you suppose, they would have had to have deliberately cleaned up signs of their existance, and that motive too is hard to understand.

 

[tablariddim]

It could be that at some point in the past, some massive starship/s managed to reach our solar system and then couldn't return back home. It could be that said starships were not not equipped for war or invasion but were in fact manned by alien scientists, crew and workers. It could be that said starship/s were lucky enough to find a steady source of food and water, which is abundant on earth, and it could be that out of the thousands of ufo's that are spotted, some actually are nothing more than alien delivery vehicles visiting earth clandestinely to collect supplies for their mini world back on the big ship.

 

[glenn239]

Barehandedkiller -

I'm confused about something. This thread started with a UFO sighting. It's then evolved into some strange theories. Question - did the theories you outline exist before you allegedly saw the UFO, or did they crop up afterwards as you thought about it? (Also, as an aside, it might be best when reporting such things to use a more credible online name).

 

[barehandkiller]

phlogistician
I imagine a far distant planet with high technology and a capped population. They decide to get together a bunch of young people(voulenteers) wanting to have children but who know the planet is at its max healthy population limit, and put them on a craft capable of unlimited flight duration(has renewable food, water, etc methods) And these people fly to various solar systems that have been chosen in advance. IF the craft can only go at the light speed, it may take many generations to get to these solar systems, but how many people on our planet would jump at the opportunity if it arose? I sure would, traveling the universe(even at a slow pace) would rock. And so they traveled generation after generation untill they got here and then started building cities in and/or outside various planets/moons here. They noticed Earth was inhabited but very uncivilized and warlike, and so are waiting untill the time when we reach a peacefull level headed state and will make themselves known.

As for the radio signals they very well could be obselete past a certain technology level. Satelites that no longer work i think would be cleared from orbit easily with antigravity craft(or could use the same propulsion systems themselves and be remotely controlled), we prolly would if it didnt cost a fortune in fuel to go back and forth.
Peace

 

[phlogistician]

Er, barehand, one minute you're saynig these aliens may live close to us, next they are generations away travelling at light speed? Which is it? Can you stick to one fantasy at a time?