That's what the Christians like to say. But no, he wasn't an atheist. He was a Roman Catholic.
I respect what Hitler accomplished
- Thread starter oiram
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At least in the sense of the Abrahamic religions, yes.
PsychoTropicPuppy's posts are proof that Hitler's propaganda is as effective today as it was back then!
No he wasn't, he was an atheist. So was Stalin.
That's what empowered him and gave him the dedication and willingness to pursue his goals.
The religious don't have the stomach to do what he did, they are hindered by meaningless codes and laws.
I was with you up until this.
His atheism did not empower him in any sense. Atheism is a negative value, it is the lack of something rather than an active belief. Hitler was a sociopath, and that is what drove him. It's why he orgasmed while giving his speeches. The man was out of his mind.
And don't give me that religious folks are bound by anything. It doesn't stop anybody from doing anything. Unless you mean to tell me that every prison in the world is filled with atheists?
Precisely! His lack of limitation is what allowed him to pursue his goal!
Perhaps I should've worded it that way. As he was an atheist, his potential was far higher than a religious sheep.
On the contrary they're filled with religious people. However the religious people don't do as they do, even if it's illegal, for themselves, they do it for a god or for some meaningless code like morality.
However an atheist can do as he wants for his own ego. And Hitler was the epitome of "freedom"
Patently false. Now, there very well may be a negative correlation between sociopaths and religiosity--that is to say, sociopaths may be far less likely to be religious--but he was not going to be hindered by anything, regardless of faith. To claim that a simple lack of faith made the difference between killing six million Jews and not killing 6 million Jews is downright retarded.
Potential? You could not have chosen a worse word if you tried. And again, wrong.
Have you ever been outside? My goodness, man, what a blatant mischaracterization! So you mean all the murderers on death row did it for God? Give me a break. At least pretend to have a shred of integrity, please.
Norsefire, your answer is flawed. You say religious don't have the stomach to do what he did? Oh really? I suppose that those folks who went on crusades a few centuries ago, and those folks of today who like to blow themselves up in the name of their religion have no guts and feel hindered by the codes and laws of their belief, now don't they? I mean, damn it, it's so hard to misinterpret the verses in those Holy scripts filled with hate speech. The fanaticism that religion is instigating in a lot of religious people is of course completely irrelevant.
Oh right JDawg..you do know that one can be religious all while still using the word of God to enhance one's propaganda, don't you? The Church did it for centuries, and still does.
Born and bred a Catholic. That's what he was, in addition to that he grew up in a society where anti-Semitism was at a rise again. He may have not agreed with the Church's hierarchy, but nonetheless he always was a Catholic, and his hatred for the Jews, homosexuals and what not originated from that very belief and society he grew up in.
And this he certainly said because of propaganda:
Mein Kampf.- "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."
At a Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews . . . The work that Christ started but could not finish, I--Adolf Hitler--will conclude."
Until he died he claimed to be a Catholic - "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.
And what the Hell is up that all the assholes in the world get labelled as Atheists?
Besides, this was never really the point of my initial post. He was a tool. Whether knowingly or unknowingly.
Oh right JDawg..you do know that one can be religious all while still using the word of God to enhance one's propaganda, don't you? The Church did it for centuries, and still does.
Born and bred a Catholic. That's what he was, in addition to that he grew up in a society where anti-Semitism was at a rise again. He may have not agreed with the Church's hierarchy, but nonetheless he always was a Catholic, and his hatred for the Jews, homosexuals and what not originated from that very belief and society he grew up in.
And this he certainly said because of propaganda:
Mein Kampf.- "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."
At a Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews . . . The work that Christ started but could not finish, I--Adolf Hitler--will conclude."
Until he died he claimed to be a Catholic - "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.
And what the Hell is up that all the assholes in the world get labelled as Atheists?
Besides, this was never really the point of my initial post. He was a tool. Whether knowingly or unknowingly.
And yet you neglet to display some of his quotes that contradict this notion that he was a Christian. Don't worry, I'll do it for you...
Hitler said:
Next, in a letter to French fascist Herve from 1930, as a demonstration of Hitler's ability to be convincing regardless of the position he took. Seriously, this is Adolph Hitler, leader of the Nazi party, writing this...
Hitler said:
Now the quotes that display what he actually thought of Christianity and religion in general. These quotes are from 1941.
Hitler said:
Hitler said:
Hitler said:
Adolph said:
That Nazi Dude said:
Adolph "the party animal" Hitler said:
What you likely have in Hitler's overtly-Christian quotes is him pandering to those he needed to pander to, just like we find him pandering to a notable Frenchman in a letter from 1930. He was brilliant at propaganda, as evidenced by your ready belief that he was, in fact, a devout Christian. In truth, I think it's obvious was a bit torn on the issue, as he was very practical and materialistic in many ways, but seemed to demonstrate a belief--albeit cautious and a bit uncertain--in something spiritual.
It's also worth noting that when you live in a place where you are surrounded by Abrahamic religions, your vocabulary is limited, in spiritual matters, to those faiths. When Hitler says "Lord" and "Creator", he doesn't necessarily mean Jesus, if he's speaking honestly.
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None of those quotes contradict the observation that he was apparently theistic, and derived his theism from his strongly Catholic Christian upbringing.jdawg said:
Hitler was also born and raised amid Abrahamic religions, with the same limitations on his thought and vocabulary if any such are factors.jdawg said:
The question of whether a sociopath can be a "true" theist, deep in their soul, is more interesting in intellectual circles than in the pragmatic world. They can employ theistic belief in others, and do it by convincing those others that they too possess such belief, without much difficulty. Hitler did not appeal to the atheism of others, or gain power by appearing atheistic, and his appeal to strongly Christian Germans is undeniable.
He was an atheist.
What?! Calling Christianity a scourge and an invention of the Jews doesn't contradict his alleged Christianity? Did you even read the quotes? Calling religion a deliberate lie brought to the world through Christianity doesn't contradict it?
Seriously, ice, how can you look in the mirror with talk like that? That's the most intellectually dishonest thing I've read in my six years on this forum. It's the same as if I smacked you in the face with a tuna, and...well...I can't think of a good analogy right now, so I think I'll just leave you with the mental image of me slapping you in the mug with a tuna.
How is it not clear that he pandered to both sides? I mean, look, I have an opinion, and it's that he wasn't a Christian, even if he had been as a child, but I do realize that the issue isn't perfectly cut and dry. He clearly pandered to Christians, just like he pandered to Europeans. And if it is true that he did not pander to atheists, then his rants against Christianity and religion in general lose their value as propaganda and become his personal views, which then supports my opinion that he wasn't religious!
Hitler was addicted to speed and from what i have read cocaine as well. I really believe that if you take away those two drugs, primarily the amphetamines WWII would have never even happened.
First it is important to relize that these were still fairly new drugs and not much was known afa constant use and what it does to the brain. Secondly knowing how these drugs react on the brain you see that nearly every single thing he did points to a deteriorating brain- from the drug. The main thing, amongst a number of other issues is losing touch with reality. He may have had some underlying issues that would be considered very antisocial and that didnt help the situation.
"Pervitin, a stimulant commonly known as speed today, was the German army's -- the Wehrmacht's -- wonder drug."
http://www.amphetamines.com/nazi.html
It is important to note that in relation to the link above it is really due to ignorance of the drug.
I first heard about this from a documentary and i believe that explanation pretty much nails it down. Once the drug set in his decisions were so bad that you can say these were not the actions of a normal person. You can see it in his speeches and in some photo's by his facial expressions, once you are aware of the usage you really just say to yourself - the dude is high.
Really the whole premise he used by fighting a war that he could never win and at the same time using resources in concentration camps when there was no reason to especially during a World War defies any logic.
As far as religion, i would say he was more into mystical type stuff and occult hoping to find somehting more but really that something more existed only in his mind.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Meth-Use-...and-Symptoms-of-Methamphetamine-Use&id=295487
First it is important to relize that these were still fairly new drugs and not much was known afa constant use and what it does to the brain. Secondly knowing how these drugs react on the brain you see that nearly every single thing he did points to a deteriorating brain- from the drug. The main thing, amongst a number of other issues is losing touch with reality. He may have had some underlying issues that would be considered very antisocial and that didnt help the situation.
"Pervitin, a stimulant commonly known as speed today, was the German army's -- the Wehrmacht's -- wonder drug."
http://www.amphetamines.com/nazi.html
It is important to note that in relation to the link above it is really due to ignorance of the drug.
I first heard about this from a documentary and i believe that explanation pretty much nails it down. Once the drug set in his decisions were so bad that you can say these were not the actions of a normal person. You can see it in his speeches and in some photo's by his facial expressions, once you are aware of the usage you really just say to yourself - the dude is high.
Really the whole premise he used by fighting a war that he could never win and at the same time using resources in concentration camps when there was no reason to especially during a World War defies any logic.
As far as religion, i would say he was more into mystical type stuff and occult hoping to find somehting more but really that something more existed only in his mind.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Meth-Use-...and-Symptoms-of-Methamphetamine-Use&id=295487
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....and how does that disprove that he was a Roman Catholic? Plus, I already addressed the fact that Hitler might have not agreed with the Church's hierarchy....but but but...
Lemme laugh for a second. Lol.
PS: I'd still like to know where you got that "hitler's an atheist" info from...
Lemme laugh for a second. Lol.
PS: I'd still like to know where you got that "hitler's an atheist" info from...
He was; he used religion as a propaganda tool.
In fact he was overheard talking about how he wished Germany was Muslim instead because of the more warrior-prone culture. This shows that he only valued the religion as a tool, thus I doubt he himself was religious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#Religious_beliefs
In fact he was overheard talking about how he wished Germany was Muslim instead because of the more warrior-prone culture. This shows that he only valued the religion as a tool, thus I doubt he himself was religious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#Religious_beliefs
i never said he was an atheist.
No fellow. I was referring to the person before you. Obviously. Besides I found your post funny. I mean f*ck yeah....drugs turn people into psychopaths or sociopaths, or whatever.
Norsefire..since when is using religion as propaganda material only restricted to atheists? That's silly. So, because he used his religion to enhance his propaganda he...was an atheist. Okay.
This discussion is a bit..well...too...ehm....***** for me. Imma go back to sipping my beer and watching my lovely futurama until you guys come up with something that I might consider worth the time for a real rebuttal.
Edit: wait wait..you quote WIKIPEDIA for backing up HISTORICAL matters? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Have a nice day, then.
Norsefire..since when is using religion as propaganda material only restricted to atheists? That's silly. So, because he used his religion to enhance his propaganda he...was an atheist. Okay.
This discussion is a bit..well...too...ehm....***** for me. Imma go back to sipping my beer and watching my lovely futurama until you guys come up with something that I might consider worth the time for a real rebuttal.
Edit: wait wait..you quote WIKIPEDIA for backing up HISTORICAL matters? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Have a nice day, then.
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well most of the time the obvious solution is the right one. Unless we want to drag things out and fantasize for centuries.