HW Help...Is Reconciliation Necessary?
- Thread starter darkhawk
- Start date
Water, I think there is a big difference between a teacher that brings one closer to God, and one who thinks he is a representative of Him, and the sole agent through which one may achieve salvation.
Of course, and it doesn't mean that Catholics are bad either. Most of them are probably sincere.
Cris said:
Correction: Only if the new one has not disclosed a belief in God. If the person identifies themselves as having any religious allegiance they will be insulted straight away.
Yes Hapsburg is "salvageable" most people are up until the moment of their deaths.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
c20H25N3o said:
Good point. But we are forgiven through faith in Jesus. Those who believe in Jesus know they are forgiven. But the bible says that it is good to confess our sins to one another (we do not need a priest but just any other Christian will do) The reason we confess our sins is to obtain the prayers of other Christians on our behalf.
James 5:
16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
water said:
God is perfect that’s why it seems we are perfectionists because we love perfection. But we are not perfect and have never claimed to have been perfect. As for loving oneself:
Romans 7
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
No we do not love ourselves but we understand ourselves only too well. We forgive ourselves because God has forgiven us.
Yes millions have thought the same way. It's Just to hard. "tell me what to do priest man", "tell me what to do imam," "tell me what to do guru". Placing their eternal destinations in the hands of men.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Darkhawk,
Hi – welcome to sciforums.
Nothing within a religious paradigm can ever be considered necessary, at least not known to be necessary. Such concepts are accepted on faith and as such are outside the realm of knowledge.
Even within the Catholic variation of the Christian myth there are disagreements as we see here. Such is the nature of a concept based entirely on creative imagination. Without a factual basis the myth can be twisted to suit ones own comfort level; which is what we see within Christianity with some 22,000 distinct cults and sects. Does any one of them have any truth? It has been calculated in other places here that the number of imaginative ideas about religious concepts could grow to near infinity since there are no reality constraints. What are the odds of one of those versions being true? One over infinity, or in practical terms – zero.
So to answer your question – yes it is necessary if you can show that the particular variation of the Catholic story that requires it is true. Otherwise your guess is as good as that of any cockroach.
As for my religion - I favor logical reasoning as my guide through life and hence I cannot be religious.
Hi – welcome to sciforums.
Nothing within a religious paradigm can ever be considered necessary, at least not known to be necessary. Such concepts are accepted on faith and as such are outside the realm of knowledge.
Even within the Catholic variation of the Christian myth there are disagreements as we see here. Such is the nature of a concept based entirely on creative imagination. Without a factual basis the myth can be twisted to suit ones own comfort level; which is what we see within Christianity with some 22,000 distinct cults and sects. Does any one of them have any truth? It has been calculated in other places here that the number of imaginative ideas about religious concepts could grow to near infinity since there are no reality constraints. What are the odds of one of those versions being true? One over infinity, or in practical terms – zero.
So to answer your question – yes it is necessary if you can show that the particular variation of the Catholic story that requires it is true. Otherwise your guess is as good as that of any cockroach.
As for my religion - I favor logical reasoning as my guide through life and hence I cannot be religious.
you need logical reasoning and freedom for ecstatic expression
logical reasoning applied will show you that te whole christian myth is just that...a myth. one that grew out of the pagan mythos. where the former differed was its demand that IT's myth was in fact historical....that an actual 'savior' was crucified etc etc etc
i speak abouta central meaning in mythlogy-ie, the actual taking of an actual sacraant that actually inspires experience. not the emtpy social-controlling symbolism which oppressed all of that
it was believed by the elites of these myths--te patrirchal stream, that people came in different categories. tat some could only cope wit te superficial literalist stories, or morality tales, whilst the intitiated could cope with knowing te deeper truth including about psychedelic sacraments. so only they would have secret access to all that
well i am against all of that elitism. i feel we are all intelliget humans, with own unique capacities, and we all are entitled to know the truth, rathe than be patronized as children by some group or individual who imagines itself superior
logical reasoning applied will show you that te whole christian myth is just that...a myth. one that grew out of the pagan mythos. where the former differed was its demand that IT's myth was in fact historical....that an actual 'savior' was crucified etc etc etc
i speak abouta central meaning in mythlogy-ie, the actual taking of an actual sacraant that actually inspires experience. not the emtpy social-controlling symbolism which oppressed all of that
it was believed by the elites of these myths--te patrirchal stream, that people came in different categories. tat some could only cope wit te superficial literalist stories, or morality tales, whilst the intitiated could cope with knowing te deeper truth including about psychedelic sacraments. so only they would have secret access to all that
well i am against all of that elitism. i feel we are all intelliget humans, with own unique capacities, and we all are entitled to know the truth, rathe than be patronized as children by some group or individual who imagines itself superior
Adstar said:
I dont believe there isn't a christian alive who hasn't believed that some sin or other has put them too far from God's forgiveness. It would be great if we all lived in a community where our christian brothers and sisters picked up on our feelings of unworthiness and sought to restore our faith in God's gift to us by reminding of us that no matter what we have done we are forgiven.
For those that do not have the opportunity to be supported by like minded brothers and sisters, I feel it would be better to confess your sins directly to God who is unlikely to confuse your state by requesting you say '50 hail mary's' as if the 'hail mary's' are somehow a valid substitute for the blood of the lamb. If a 'hail mary' was sufficient why did Jesus need to die?
The act of taking your unworthiness to God is the first step in your healing because the wages of the sin i.e. seperation from the holy have been overcome through faith in God even if that faith is barely a mustard seed of hope that His love is sufficient for you to be reconcilled fully.
peace
c20
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God already knows our sins. And more importantly He knows out attitude towards it. No confession is required. What we pray for is help in reducing sin. Why we confess our sins to other Christians for is to obtain their prayers for help in reducing our sin.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Adstar said:
What is your advice to people who are seperated from like minded Christians and yet are feeling powerless to the effects of sin? Would you advise them to take their confesson to a catholic priest that he might pray for them or would you advise them to seek out the only one who could help directly? This is after all the topic of this thread
peace
c20
c20H25N3o said:What is your advice to people who are seperated from like minded Christians and yet are feeling powerless to the effects of sin? Would you advise them to take their confesson to a catholic priest that he might pray for them or would you advise them to seek out the only one who could help directly? This is after all the topic of this thread
peace
c20
Well if one is alone then of course they cannot confess their sins to other Christians. I certainly would not advise any Christians to go and confess their sins to a catholic priest, if i did that i may as well tell them to confess their sins to a buddhist monk.
One can and should pray to God for Help in overcoming ones faults and reducing ones bad effects on others. But confession to God is pointless. He already knows our sins. Maybe we have got different ideas as to the meaning of the word Confession?
Confession: To tell someone (who does not know your sin) what you have sinned.
What is your thoughts on the word Confession?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Adstar said:
I think you have correctly identified that we are coming from slightly different angles on the word 'confession'
My understanding of confession is having the humility to admit that what you did was wrong. When my kids are naughty, I know they are naughty but I still want them to come to me and say sorry. When they say sorry, I ask them what it is they are sorry for because I want to make sure they understand what it is they are doing that is not benefiting them. When they know what they did wrong, I can be assured that they know right from wrong and so when they are naughty again I can refer them back to the point where they said sorry last time. Doesn't matter how many times they are naughty as long as my message is consistent i.e. that sort of behaviour is not benefitting you. Eventually I can expect they will change their behaviour because each time they come to me they will be less and less protected from the consequences of their actions. As long as they are under my roof I have some control as to the extent of damage the consequences of their actions will exact. As they get older I expect them to have learnt fully and therefore I am less inclined to protect them as it will only be the full consequences of their actions that will make them stop. Yes they live under a state of grace but should they continue being naughty so that the grace increases relative to the naughtiness? No matter what happens I will always restore them because fundamentally I love them.
peace
c20
(Q),
Nothing justifies your anger and hatred.
* * *
Adstar,
Maybe YOU understand yourself well. But I assure you not everyone does understand herself or himself well.
Again, not true. Some people never forgive themselves, they kill themselves, devoured by guilt.
It is too hard. Would you like to know how many times I felt like killing myself because I could not experience God as I was "supposed" to?
You seem to assume that the priests will abuse their positions. And also, you seem to assume that people trust people to tell them about God.
A priest may correctly assess the person's situation, and send them to the counselor, or doctor, or employment office, or some other completely worldly, but necessary concern -- but which may help the person on their way and make the crucial difference.
You are taking human sanity for granted.
Nothing justifies your anger and hatred.
* * *
Adstar,
Maybe YOU understand yourself well. But I assure you not everyone does understand herself or himself well.
Again, not true. Some people never forgive themselves, they kill themselves, devoured by guilt.
It is too hard. Would you like to know how many times I felt like killing myself because I could not experience God as I was "supposed" to?
You seem to assume that the priests will abuse their positions. And also, you seem to assume that people trust people to tell them about God.
A priest may correctly assess the person's situation, and send them to the counselor, or doctor, or employment office, or some other completely worldly, but necessary concern -- but which may help the person on their way and make the crucial difference.
You are taking human sanity for granted.
Adstar said:
Yet a Buddhist monk may be the best address.
Tell that to someone who isn't sure whether he believes in God or not.
It's is good to hear yourself say those things, and to have someone reflect them back to you. Not evaluate them or judge them, just reflect them, so that you can hear yourself, and know what it is you're talking about -- so that you're not talking in vain.