HW Help...Is Reconciliation Necessary?

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darkhawk

Registered Member
I'm doing a group project for my college religion class, and my part is to find information on Catholic reconciliation not being necessary. I was raised Catholic, so to me it is necessary.

Write what you feel, but please, no one word answers.
If you can back up why you (or your religion) feels it is not I would appreciate it. Also, please include what religion you follow; the more diverse the better.


Thanks


P.S. The presentation is 11/8/05. So if you find this after that date, it wont matter to me, but write anyway, maybe someone will find something interesting.
 
Hi darkhawk :)

I am a former catholic. I am now a Bible believing Christian. I do not belong to any denomination. I am a part of the Body of Christ. There are doctrines and practices that are followed by the catholic church that i cannot agree with. My conscience to the Word Of God will not allow any reconciliation with the catholic church.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: welcome to this forum by the way. Be prepared.
 
darkhawk said:
I'm doing a group project for my college religion class, and my part is to find information on Catholic reconciliation not being necessary. I was raised Catholic, so to me it is necessary.

Write what you feel, but please, no one word answers. If you can back up why you (or your religion) feels it is not I would appreciate it. Also, please include what religion you follow; the more diverse the better.

Thanks

P.S. The presentation is 11/8/05. So if you find this after that date, it wont matter to me, but write anyway, maybe someone will find something interesting.
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*************
M*W: Dear darkhawk, welcome to sciforums. I'm sure you will find your answers here. I am a recovering Catholic. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is a modernization of the Sacraments of Confession and Penance. It came about around 1975, at least to my military church. Now, as an Atheist, I can see why reconciliation is not necessary. One only has to be true to oneself. Mediaries are not necessary. Since I don't believe there is a god to answer to, it's a useless thing to me. But, when I was Catholic, I couldn't see the necessity of the confession booth anyway. In reconciliation the penitent speaks directly to the priest on a one-to-one basis and not in a little archaic booth. None of it is worth the time it takes. If a person doesn't forgive himself for his failings, no one else has the "power" or "position" to do it! We can forgive others all day long on what they may have done to us, but self-forgiveness is the most powerful gift we can ever give ourselves. No gods need apply.
 
Nothing more than a safety valve for the conscience. Confess and perform your requisite penance, then go on your merry way.
 
darkhawk said:
I'm doing a group project for my college religion class, and my part is to find information on Catholic reconciliation not being necessary. I was raised Catholic, so to me it is necessary.

Write what you feel, but please, no one word answers.
If you can back up why you (or your religion) feels it is not I would appreciate it. Also, please include what religion you follow; the more diverse the better.


Thanks


P.S. The presentation is 11/8/05. So if you find this after that date, it wont matter to me, but write anyway, maybe someone will find something interesting.
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Do your own homework, dick.
 
Hapsburg - how about toning down the unnecessary aggression. You tend to go over the top a little too often.
 
Cris said:
Hapsburg - how about toning down the unnecessary aggression. You tend to go over the top a little too often.
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:eek: Your joking right?

Hapsburg is about average in his aggression. If your going to criticize Him then you better right a similar post to most people in here.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
tis all reminds me of an insight i had between sleepin and wakin this morning

i was tinking just how C L O S E feeelin is. get me?....we have been taught to noy be in TOUCH...wit our feeelings. in fact through various meansthere is a cultural shame attached to showing too much feeling. especailly in the West. espcially in England. look at the QUEEN....jeeeesus! you cant get morestiff and wooden...blesser

but feelings are closer than close. they=yu........when you take sacramental plants you really know this. these feelings really S H O W 'themselves'.....there is now no pretence of a 'you' LOOKI AT 'your' feelings. there IS feeling!

what inspired all of this, was reading in tis thread about confession and forgiveness......really all of that stuff, part of the Catholic tradition islike ....te watered down version of what i am meaning.
 
Adstar - it has been usual here to greet someone new with a welcome message, not abuse. Besides Hapsburg is salvageable.
 
Thanks for the help, Hapsburg.
And a sincere thanks to those of you who have helped so far.

Water, if you're serious, Catholic Reconciliation is a sacrament where you confess your sins to a priest and through God's power through the priest your sins are forgiven (as long as you are truly sorry for said sins). Following the forgiveness, the priest will then give you something to do for pennance, whether that is saying certain prayers or something else, such as community service or a simple apology to someone, depends on what the priest feels is appropriate.
 
darkhawk said:
Thanks for the help, Hapsburg.
And a sincere thanks to those of you who have helped so far.

Water, if you're serious, Catholic Reconciliation is a sacrament where you confess your sins to a priest and through God's power through the priest your sins are forgiven (as long as you are truly sorry for said sins). Following the forgiveness, the priest will then give you something to do for pennance, whether that is saying certain prayers or something else, such as community service or a simple apology to someone, depends on what the priest feels is appropriate.
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Since the bible tells us to be bold before the throne of God why would we need an intermediary? Surely it would be better to go into your 'closet' where God may see what you do in secret and ask Him for forgiveness directly?

peace

c20
 
darkhawk said:
Thanks for the help, Hapsburg.
And a sincere thanks to those of you who have helped so far.

Water, if you're serious, Catholic Reconciliation is a sacrament where you confess your sins to a priest and through God's power through the priest your sins are forgiven (as long as you are truly sorry for said sins).

me::Understand that all of that ritual is the Catholic Church dogmatic appropriation of a much deeper meaningful, and ACTUAL, EXPERIENCE.......!
For example, the original 'sacrament' is a psychedelic sacrament, which is a trigger which faciliates emotional expresson and ecstatic expression.....This is what i was speaking about really in first message.

In this ecstatic state you bypass cultural conditioning which tries to separate 'you' from 'feeling'. you ARE feelING. That is the confession 'to acknowledge fully', if you will. Not to some 'all-good God' created by patriarchy so as to control your individuality. No, the real sacramental experience is complete freedom. No need of man dressed up pretending to speak for 'God'. it is you= FEELING, which = the unspeakable

Following the forgiveness, the priest will then give you something to do for pennance, whether that is saying certain prayers or something else, such as community service or a simple apology to someone, depends on what the priest feels is appropriate.
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dispense with priest. unless you are contented with the facade of established religion. m But wit it comes guilting and conformity and the stifling of your true creative individuality
 
The Catholic church has made a business for thousands of years of being an intermediary between you and God. It was a lie from the very beginning designed to seize political power. The Protestants have learned better.
 
Darkhawk,


I am serious. I didn't know what "Catholic Reconciliation" is, I didn't know it under this name. And to state my religion, I'm not a Christian, neither of any other established religion.

I think it is good to have someone to talk to about your sins. But I'm not sure a human is good to talk to about one's sins. However, if people are left to God, all on their own, then they are likely to develop all sorts of delusions, or leave, frustrated upon not having heard or learned anything, or having only heard their worst fears.

Here, I have to say this right away:
My greatest trouble with Christianity is that it seems to be designed for people who have no real problems in their lives, and is a religion that is meant to be born into. To an outsider, it is so clinical, so sterile, so perfectionist.
Because if one is an outsider to Christianity, and has some personal issues to deal with, and first turns to Christianity as a youth or an adult, then things are likely to go wrong.
One of my greatest frustrations with Christianity is that it is assumed that everyone loves oneself. And that if you don't accept God, then it must be that you are willfully rebelling. Having had that assumed about me, and me trying to believe it, I almost went insane.

Left to oneself, a troubled person is likely to come up with terrible ideas about God, oneself and other people -- and from this perspective, I think that some human guidance is definitely necessary, even in the form of a priest and more personal talk.

I think people rarely have time to actually speak with the priest, as priests are usually very busy, so the confession ordinance may at least be a try to even out a person's particular misperceptions, even if just briefly.

Many people say "God will guide you, you just listen to Him and pay attention" -- but this is very harmful nonsense. Maybe for an older believer, who is sure of his faith, such an encouragement will work, but it certainly can be devastating for newbies.
Newbies need some guidance from people, newbies are not used to rely on their faith, they don't know how to do it.
They need structure, and a confession ordinance may provide that structure.
 
Left to oneself, a troubled person is likely to come up with terrible ideas about God

You mean like, if they decide to start thinking for themselves and come to the conclusion gods don't exist?

I think people rarely have time to actually speak with the priest, as priests are usually very busy

Doing what? Talking with god?

Many people say "God will guide you, you just listen to Him and pay attention" -- but this is very harmful nonsense.

Didn't you give out the same advice and now consider it harmful nonsense?

They need structure, and a confession ordinance may provide that structure.

They need an education, not indoctrination.
 
spidergoat said:
The Catholic church has made a business for thousands of years of being an intermediary between you and God. It was a lie from the very beginning designed to seize political power. The Protestants have learned better.
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Anything can be abused.

How is anyone to learn anything if there are no teachers, no intermediaries?
 
(Q) said:
Left to oneself, a troubled person is likely to come up with terrible ideas about God

You mean like, if they decide to start thinking for themselves and come to the conclusion gods don't exist?
Click to expand...

That too, but mainly with the idea that God is a monster.


Many people say "God will guide you, you just listen to Him and pay attention" -- but this is very harmful nonsense.

Didn't you give out the same advice and now consider it harmful nonsense?
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I sent you to a priest. I sent you to seek help, with people.

Also, you seemed to be very sure about everything, and yet kept on asking questions -- so you were sending me a mixed message.
 
That too, but mainly with the idea that God is a monster.

If one were to go by the bible or quran or other such scripturial nonsense, one can easily come to the conclusion that gods are monsters.

I sent you to a priest. I sent you to seek help, with people.

A priest would fill your head with fantastic ideals about gods. The next priest would do very much the same thing, but his fantastic ideals would be much different than the first priest, and so on and so on...

Also, you seemed to be very sure about everything, and yet kept on asking questions -- so you were sending me a mixed message.

No, I'm not sure about everything, that would be silly.

I'm asking you questions in the hope that your brain will spark to life one day.
 
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