Hudson family killers should live, because...

swarm said:
Not my call.
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If you are chickenshit to take a stand, don't participate in the discussion...

The Hudson murders weren't your call either, nevertheless you expressed your opinion. My take is that you got cornered with the Indian bombings, and you choose the easy way out...
 
CutsieMarie89 said:
Everyone knows the death penalty is more costly than life in prison.
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Yeah, but notice that's ONLY ....ONLY.... because we don't carry out the original sentence for umpty-eleven years!! If the convicted criminal was taken directly from the courthouse and shot, the cost would be minimal.

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
Yeah, but notice that's ONLY ....ONLY.... because we don't carry out the original sentence for umpty-eleven years!! If the convicted criminal was taken directly from the courthouse and shot, the cost would be minimal.

Baron Max
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What if the criminal is framed? Do you trust the justice system to get it right100% of the time? I don't.
 
TimeTraveler said:
What if the criminal is framed? Do you trust the justice system to get it right100% of the time? I don't.
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Well, that's just life in the big city! Sure there are fuckups, but so are there in regular ol' life. You walk across streets, don't you? You could be killed, but you do it anyway.

In the old days, when a man was found guilty of murder (or whatever), if the sentence was hanging, they just did it. And the world kept right on turning even if the man was actually, and truly innocent of the crime. Life's tough sometimes, but we keep on trying to live it, don't we?

What's the value of a human life? $10? $500 $1,000,000? To me, since babies are so damned easy to create, individual humans aren't really worth much.

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
Well, that's just life in the big city! Sure there are fuckups, but so are there in regular ol' life. You walk across streets, don't you? You could be killed, but you do it anyway.

In the old days, when a man was found guilty of murder (or whatever), if the sentence was hanging, they just did it. And the world kept right on turning even if the man was actually, and truly innocent of the crime. Life's tough sometimes, but we keep on trying to live it, don't we?

What's the value of a human life? $10? $500 $1,000,000? To me, since babies are so damned easy to create, individual humans aren't really worth much.

Baron Max
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As someone who has been falsely accused of a serious crime, I think the chances of someone being falsely convicted are much higher than they ought be. You might think life is worthless, but MY life is priceless.
 
CutsieMarie89 said:
As someone who has been falsely accused of a serious crime, I think the chances of someone being falsely convicted are much higher than they ought be.
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Were you falsely convicted? There's a world of difference between being accused and being convicted.

CutsieMarie89 said:
You might think life is worthless, but MY life is priceless.
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Sure, to you! But to me, your life ain't worth the price of a cup of coffee. If you died tomorrow, it wouldn't affect my life even one tiny little bit. And I daresay, that it probably wouldn't affect 99.9 percent of the rest of the people on Earth. So see, there ain't many people who think your life is priceless.

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
Were you falsely convicted? There's a world of difference between being accused and being convicted.



Sure, to you! But to me, your life ain't worth the price of a cup of coffee. If you died tomorrow, it wouldn't affect my life even one tiny little bit. And I daresay, that it probably wouldn't affect 99.9 percent of the rest of the people on Earth. So see, there ain't many people who think your life is priceless.

Baron Max
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No I wasn't convicted, but it sure felt like it, the way I was treated, (the FBI are such idiots)but that wasn't my point. I just meant that being shot three seconds after your conviction doesn't give leave any space whatsoever for an appeal process and it matters a lot more when you are the one that has been convicted.
 
CutsieMarie89 said:
I just meant that being shot three seconds after your conviction doesn't give leave any space whatsoever for an appeal process and it matters a lot more when you are the one that has been convicted.
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No, not three seconds! Geez, give the guy a break. I mean something like, oh, two hours or so, then shoot him!

As to my own value, if I'm the one to set it, then it's far, far different to what someone in, say, China might set my value.

I can't grasp the concept of how some value humans so highly. It seems so completely non-sensical to me. People are killed or die all the time, all over the world, and the whole world doesn't mourn them or feel bad or anything else.

So, ...what's the value of that old woman in Russia who just died as you were reading this? How 'bout that old man in Indonesia who just now died, just immediately after the old woman in Russia? No, they have no value. And to think so shows that it's strictly philosophical ...which is the same thing as saying ...it's worthless!

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
Well, that's just life in the big city! Sure there are fuckups, but so are there in regular ol' life. You walk across streets, don't you? You could be killed, but you do it anyway.

In the old days, when a man was found guilty of murder (or whatever), if the sentence was hanging, they just did it. And the world kept right on turning even if the man was actually, and truly innocent of the crime. Life's tough sometimes, but we keep on trying to live it, don't we?

What's the value of a human life? $10? $500 $1,000,000? To me, since babies are so damned easy to create, individual humans aren't really worth much.

Baron Max
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You assume all human babies are equal. I don't believe that.
You also assume all human lives are equal, I don't believe that either.

The life of a genius is probably worth more than the life of an ignorant person, but even an ignorant person can build your house and serve your food. So again which humans?
 
CutsieMarie89 said:
As someone who has been falsely accused of a serious crime, I think the chances of someone being falsely convicted are much higher than they ought be. You might think life is worthless, but MY life is priceless.
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Nah your life isn't priceless to BaronMax. You're worth no more than $1,000,000to BaronMax and to the US gov you are worth around 6 million. To the local thug you probably wouldn't even be worth $100,000 and to the drug addicted crack addict thug probably not even $10,000. And then of course to the serial killer who enjoys taking lives, your life would be worth less than the dirt used to bury your body.

If all lives are equal, then we are equally worthless. This is what equality and communism ultimately lead to.
 
Baron Max said:
Were you falsely convicted? There's a world of difference between being accused and being convicted.



Sure, to you! But to me, your life ain't worth the price of a cup of coffee. If you died tomorrow, it wouldn't affect my life even one tiny little bit. And I daresay, that it probably wouldn't affect 99.9 percent of the rest of the people on Earth. So see, there ain't many people who think your life is priceless.

Baron Max
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Now Baron, what if he has a talent, a skill, or can make art?
While you are probably right, I wouldn't go so far to say 99% of people agree with you, I'd say probably more like 10-20%, but that 10-20% has a lot of power. If you want to know how much society values the life of a person, just look at their salary. The system of capitalism was created to give human life value.
 
TimeTraveler said:
Now Baron, what if he has a talent, a skill, or can make art?
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But that skill or talent is essentially worthless to millions, perhaps billions, of people who will never, or can never, utilize it or enjoy it. And again, if the guy is the most talented person in all of China, if no one knows about him, when he dies, other than those close to him will be affected in any way. Therefore, he's essentially useless to 99.9% of the world's population.

TimeTraveler said:
If you want to know how much society values the life of a person, just look at their salary. The system of capitalism was created to give human life value.
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Be careful how you use the term "society". And please don't use it in the universal sense ...because if you do, it means even less than to say "society of New York City".

But, nope, your idea of social/societal value don't do it either. If he doesn't directly affect you in any way, then when he dies, you won't even know it, and you won't be affected by his death. It'll be just as if he never existed.

People don't like to think of themselves as being worthless, so they invent all kinds of different ways or means so they can fool themselves into belivieing that they have value.

Me? I'm valuable to my dog ...because he depends on me to feed and water him. Other than that, .....?

Baron Max
 
Human value is a silly topic. Humans have no more value than dirt. Dirt's value is relative. The dirt your house is standing on is probably reltively valuable to you. But how much is it worth to the man down the street. It should be simple enough, if you murder someone, we get to murder you back. It's far more cruel and unusual to put a man into prison than it is to simply kill him. Of course I think rapists should be raped and executed, so my view may be slightly extreme.

Then again, 3 strikes you are out, 3 speeding tickets, and execution would probably cut down on speeding tickets. :D
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
Human value is a silly topic. Humans have no more value than dirt. Dirt's value is relative. The dirt your house is standing on is probably reltively valuable to you. But how much is it worth to the man down the street. It should be simple enough, if you murder someone, we get to murder you back. It's far more cruel and unusual to put a man into prison than it is to simply kill him. Of course I think rapists should be raped and executed, so my view may be slightly extreme.

Then again, 3 strikes you are out, 3 speeding tickets, and execution would probably cut down on speeding tickets. :D
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Your views are based entirely on emotions and therefore are wrong.
 
By the way I picked this case, because this is about somebody who we know or can identify with. Not just general bad people hurting good people. I don't mind if the discussion goes into the general approach, but just for a moment try to put yourself in the place of Jennifer or her sister, THEN make your argument...
 
So you want an emotional response? Ok, I should be allowed to kill the fuckers' families that did this, as well as any children.
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
So you want an emotional response? Ok, I should be allowed to kill the fuckers' families that did this, as well as any children.
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That's the response I would have taken as well. If you want people to suffer for what they have done you have to make them feel the way you felt. An eye for an eye... If you kill my child I get to kill yours. It's not rational of course, but from an emotional stand point that's what I would want to do.
 
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