how would you live if God doesn't exist?

[Jan Ardena]

jayleew,

I see, you are arguing something (not sure what, but not arguing the existence of God)...from the standpoint that God exists. Why didn't you just say so! I digress. From the standpoint that God exists, then all things are possible with God.

You are playing games my dear sir.

I trusted and had faith in God because I chose to believe that the Bible was true. People and personal experience have shed a negative light on what I believed.

It sounds like you had trust and faith in the bible.
If you don't mind me asking (I understand if you do), what did you
understand about God, and the bible that attracted you to Christianity?

jan.

 

[jayleew]

You are playing games my dear sir.

The feeling is mutual, we're clearly not on the same page.

It sounds like you had trust and faith in the bible.
If you don't mind me asking (I understand if you do), what did you
understand about God, and the bible that attracted you to Christianity?

Nope, I'm an open book. I wasn't attracted to Christianity, I was held by Christianity. My mother was a devout Catholic, so I had to be. When I left home, I was held by Christianity. It was the heroism of its wise men and women from the Bible. What kept me was a God who I could turn my life over to and entrust with, in a very uncertain time of life. Another thing was the system of ethics that I believe is very good (centered on selflessness).

When I learned from the Bible that serving God is different than serving man, I struggled because it requires honest faith. I was not honest with myself about my beliefs. I chose to believe in God, and interpret everything with the presumption that God existed. But, the belief was not based on anything. I just chose to ignore my core being, which is skeptical, explorative, and inquisitive.

What also kept me, was the feeling of comradery, otherwise called fellowship. It was great to be part of the club and be accepted without prejudice. The deeply committed Christians, who had no reason to believe in God, inspired me to continue. The kind that came to God.

I was born a Christian, and maybe I will be again. But, if I am, it will be because I have a reason to believe that the Bible is true. For me, if it can be proven that Jesus Christ did rise from the grave three days after dying, I would believe. But, we don't even know if Jesus was real. To my knowledge, there is no archeological evidence aside from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I tried for a couple years to go directly to the source (God), but all I got was silence. Then, one day I asked if he would at least meet me at church and encourage me. I went expecting to meet God, and he stood me up. That was it, I couldn't be unreasonable anymore. I had to wake up and smell the roses that there was no evidence of God. Something that was in the back of my head, but ignored for 30 years.

So, this part of my life is coming to terms and searching for the truth.

 

[Jan Ardena]

jayleew,

What kept me was a God who I could turn my life over to and entrust with, in a very uncertain time of life. Another thing was the system of ethics that I believe is very good (centered on selflessness).

How did you come to understand that God was one who you could turn your life over to and entrust?

I chose to believe in God, and interpret everything with the presumption that God existed. But, the belief was not based on anything. I just chose to ignore my core being, which is skeptical, explorative, and inquisitive.

This is why I ask the above question.
You haven't talked about God as yet.

I was born a Christian, and maybe I will be again. But, if I am, it will be because I have a reason to believe that the Bible is true.

It seems that all your devotion was in Christianity the religion, and how it
interprets the bible.
It would be interesting if you could summerize how you understood God.

For me, if it can be proven that Jesus Christ did rise from the grave three days after dying, I would believe.

How are you going to prove that?

But, we don't even know if Jesus was real. To my knowledge, there is no archeological evidence aside from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Why wouldn't Jesus be real?
Of course, in the anti-God' camp, their is benefit in claiming Jesus may not have existed. But why should the rest of deny his existence, instead of not believing, or even being bothered?

I tried for a couple years to go directly to the source (God), but all I got was silence.

How do you know?
How do you know, your current state of mind is not a nudge (providing you are sincere) in the direction of clearer understanding?
What were you expecting?

Then, one day I asked if he would at least meet me at church and encourage me. I went expecting to meet God, and he stood me up.

Would you have recognised God if he were there?

That was it, I couldn't be unreasonable anymore. I had to wake up and smell the roses that there was no evidence of God. Something that was in the back of my head, but ignored for 30 years.

I've asked this before. What would you accept as evidence of God?

So, this part of my life is coming to terms and searching for the truth.

And this part of your life has nothing to do with God because?........

jan.

 

[jayleew]

Would you have recognised God if he were there?

Only if God chose to reveal itself.

I've asked this before. What would you accept as evidence of God?

Any message (not necessarily verbal or written) that is just between me and God. Something that could only be known between God and I, and at least on two occasions.

 

[swarm]

I neither believe nor disbelieve unicorns exist, or have existed.

In that case god decreed you own me a million dollars and you must pay or be damned. Now that might seem unlikely, but by Pascal's wager you are far better off paying up than taking the chance on getting damned.

A unicorn is an animal that resembles a horse with a horn, a lions tale, and, some goat-hooves.

Actually a unicorn is a goat with a single horn and lion's tail.

 

[Northwind]

To say the majority of the world, the majority of the time, throughout history and ancient history, are classed as "believers". Can you explain how you have arrived at your conclusion.

Thanks in advance
jan.

Which conclusion? Your statement is confusingly worded.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

I don't know of anything which undeniably forms by itself and definately nothing from an explosion. I believe it is fundamentally absurd to accept the notion that a god, with all its incredible precise complexity, was formed in this way.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

The feeling is mutual, we're clearly not on the same page..

You're not even in the same book.

I tried for a couple years to go directly to the source (God), but all I got was silence. Then, one day I asked if he would at least meet me at church and encourage me. I went expecting to meet God, and he stood me up.

I challenged him to a fight & the yellow coward never showed up.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Which conclusion? Your statement is confusingly worded.

You said;

I am compassionate, scrupulously honest (and demand honesty from others), and non-violent except in extremis.

then you claimed;

Few believers can say the same

I would be interested to know how you came to the conclusion that few believers can be compassionate, honest, and non-violent.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

I don't know of anything which undeniably forms by itself and definately nothing from an explosion. I believe it is fundamentally absurd to accept the notion that a god, with all its incredible precise complexity, was formed in this way.

The two sentences make no sense.
What you mean to say is "I can't see God, therefore God does not exist.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

swarm,

In that case god decreed you own me a million dollars and you must pay or be damned. Now that might seem unlikely, but by Pascal's wager you are far better off paying up than taking the chance on getting damned.

Either you believe in God or not, there is no middle ground.
The same cannot be said for unicorns.

Actually a unicorn is a goat with a single horn and lion's tail.

Mm, really.

jan.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Actually a unicorn is a goat with a single horn and lion's tail.

Isn't that a god?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

The two sentences make no sense.
What you mean to say is "I can't see God, therefore God does not exist.

jan.

Stop deciding what I mean. Specially since I refuted that before & the post you quote refutes it.
What I meant to say is what I said.
They make more sense with the word god in there than when you posted them with the word universe.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Stop deciding what I mean. Specially since I refuted that before & the post you quote refutes it.
What I meant to say is what I said.
They make more sense with the word god in there than when you posted them with the word universe.

If God is formed, then he is not God.

jan.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

If the universe has to have been made by something, that something has to have been made by something. It's illogical to apply it to the universe but not to a god.

 

[Jan Ardena]

If the universe has to have been made by something, that something has to have been made by something. It's illogical to apply it to the universe but not to a god.

Something has to the origin, otherwise the whole thing becomes infinately unresolvable, which make no sense.
Either there is a creator who is the origin of everything, or there none.
That's what this discussion boils down to.

jan.

 

[phlogistician]

Something has to the origin, otherwise the whole thing becomes infinately unresolvable, which make no sense.

There's your problem Jan; you assume the Universe exists to make sense to us.

That's fallacy. We just exist, for no rhyme or reason. It's self aggrandisement in the extreme to think we have a purpose, a God, or that our existence is meaningful.

Once you accept that some questions only exist because we are here to ask them, and that they probably do not have satisfactory answers, you can move on, and realise you don't need God. You can spend time studying science, to see if there is an answer, rather than jumping to a conclusion, and labelling it 'God'.

 

[swarm]

Either you believe in God or not, there is no middle ground.
The same cannot be said for unicorns.

Interesting pair of hypotheses, they don't seem supportable.

Mm, really.

Yes I have it on as good an authority as anything you have on god.

Horse unicorns are a modern heresy.

 

[swarm]

Isn't that a god?

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[jayleew]

There's your problem Jan; you assume the Universe exists to make sense to us.

It is a common problem. If people believe in a god, they believe that at some point it will all be figured out. They feel progressively more knowledgable by drawing more and more conclusions, like "Wow! I didn't know the scripture said that, I've even read that verse five times before!"

That is how one can unknowingly hurt another, especially another believer.

Once you accept that some questions only exist because we are here to ask them, and that they probably do not have satisfactory answers, you can move on, and realise you don't need God. You can spend time studying science, to see if there is an answer, rather than jumping to a conclusion, and labelling it 'God'.

Good call, put away the premature conclusions.

I would also add studying in other fields, including theology.