How Was The Universe Created?

[Raithere]

Originally posted by edgar
when i said that something cant come from nothing i mean that stuff just cant appear if theirs nothing to influence them.

Again, evidence indicates that it can.

The bible gives us an explanation on how stuff was created

The problem is that there is no evidence that supports this conjecture.

IF you believe in god, than you believe that he is all powerful. It says that in za bible.

Some people, however, have non-Biblical definitions of God; upon what basis do you dismiss all other conceptions of God?

None of you have reallly still have explained How something could be created out of nothing WITH OUT god or a diety.

Rest energy (sometimes called vacuum energy) may be borrowed to create a pair of particles (negative and positive) as long as the energy is returned. The Uncertainty Principle shows that this can happen spontaneously (without cause) because there is no such thing as a state of absolute rest.

This however, ignores that there is no reason to assume that something came from nothing. This assumption often comes from a (sometimes deliberate) misunderstanding of the Big Bang theory.

people used to believe in humors and such to explain illnesses...it was very "logical" at the time, people used to drain blood inorder to cure diseases.

Not quite sure what your point is here... but while the method was logically derived from the premise, the premise itself was unfounded, which is why we no longer bleed people as a general curative.

~Raithere

 

[Persol]

Originally posted by edgar
people used to believe in humors and such to explain illnesses...it was very "logical" at the time, people used to drain blood inorder to cure diseases.

And christianity used to teach that:
the earth was flat
the heavens revolve around the earth
the earth was 10,000 years old
earthquakes were caused by sins
Friday the 13th is unlucky
Walking under a ladder is bad luck (violating the trinity, yadda yadda)
Cats are the work of the devil (myth was said to have helped spread the bubonic plauge, but doubtful)

Many of these were based on biblical scriptures which were at the time considered literal, and are now interpreted differently. There is no reason to think that Genesis isn't the same case.

One person's religion is anothers superstition. In most cases religions 'tote the company line' until forced to back away for a point. Science uses the brains that were given to us (either by nature or god or whatever) to observe our surroundings and try to understand events. More importantly, scientists fully expect the knowledge of the field to change... while theists resist these changes.

(Note: I realize that not all theists have a stagnant worldview. This applies to those who do.)

A comparison between religious and scientific knowledge: http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/superstition.html

 

[edgar]

may i remind you THAT THESE WERE HUMAN BELEIFS....not the bible, the bible never said those things, people assumed them, and so what if other christians taught them? nobody's perfect, i guide my self mainly by the bible

 

[Zero Mass]

Originally posted by edgar
may i remind you THAT THESE WERE HUMAN BELEIFS....not the bible, the bible never said those things, people assumed them, and so what if other christians taught them? nobody's perfect, i guide my self mainly by the bible

How are you sure that the bible is the word of god?

Its a human belief that the bible was written by god. There is no evidence to show that anybody but humans wrote the bible. You assume that it is the word of god.
Nobody is perfect, especially you crapface.

ZERO MASS

 

[Persol]

Originally posted by edgar
nobody's perfect, i guide my self mainly by the bible

Fine, but this does not change that the bible can not be relied upon to provide scientifically useful ideas. Maybe God did create everything... but that doesn't tell us anything that is of any use. The ENTIRE bible is based on human beliefs. Even assuming that it was written with divine intervention, and the words have not been changed in thousands of years... the meaning (the important stuff) is interpreted by people. In the past these interpretations have been flawed when it comes to testable theories. The bible is not meant to teach science. Obviously the creation story is 'watered down' because it leaves out and generalizes what was actually created. It is not a complete picture, and is only meant to convince you that the christian God created the universe. It says very little about the process, and what it does say bares little resemblance to what we think must have happened. The Bible can not even get the order of creation straight, so I would not trust it as a reliable source to give facts about creation.

 

[edgar]

the entire bible is the word of god, christians beliefs are based on the bible

 

[edgar]

the whole point of the creation story is to say taht GOD created everything, and SATAN casued man's downfall

 

[edgar]

and u know the order of the creation?

 

[Zero Mass]

edgar,
stop with the mulitiple posts and answer my question

How do you know that the bible is the word of God?

I'll answer that question for you if you won't:
You use what people have told you and base your beliefs around it. The belief that the bible was written by god is what? A HUMAN BELIEF.

You have a low tolerance for human beliefs like superstitions, well christianity is a human belief, or superstition, those two words are really quite interchangeable if you ask me, in this situation

Please post something that is not 100% crap, like your OWN opinion, oh wait, that too will most likely be crap...well post it anyway so I can mock you.

ZERO MASS

 

[Persol]

the whole point of the creation story is to say taht GOD created everything, and SATAN casued man's downfall
Which has absolutely nothing to do with 'How Was The Universe Created'. Sorry, but you just defeated your own point.

and u know the order of the creation?
I don't claim that I am absolutely correct, and expect that some part of current theory is wrong. The bible however claims that it is the 'perfect truth'. This creates a problem as it puts forward 2 different orders of creation (Gen 1 vs Gen 2), both of which can not be true.

 

[one_raven]

Originally posted by edgar
the whole point of the creation story is to say taht GOD created everything

Is that so?

Originally posted by edgar
it is impossible for matter to create from nothing

Is that so?

Oh wait...

Something smells like a contradiction.

Also, you completely ignored my other post.

That is my point that you seem to have completely missed.

You are saying that science is imperfect, and fallible human logic applied to observations is not reliable or dependable.

Therefore, how can you assert that something can NOT come from nothing because science says so??

That is akin to ME saying, "I think the Bible is a bunch of bullshit." which I do.
THEN turning around and saying, "Well obviously we know that the world had a global flood because the Bible SAYS so."

Do you see what I am getting at?
Following me?

So, the question IS.

How do you know that something can not come from nothing?
Other than science tells us so, because it is quite obvious that you don't believe in science.
If you don't believe in it, then you can't use it to support your argument.

Care to reply?

 

[edgar]

if u read those, the first story is about the whole earth in general. the second one is about eden and man

 

[True Wisdom]

Why do you even believe in the Jewish God. What exactly attracted you to that particular religion?

 

[edgar]

first of all, because it's promise of salvation for anyone who repents. aslo because of the power of the message it's spreading. It only started from only 1 person believeing in him and look now so many people believe. it's also amazing how accurate the bible is in it's historical sense. The jews being led out of egypt, the 70 years, it was predicted and happend. the last and most hardest to explain was.....that i was drawn twoard it. But i realized by my self that it wasnt some hocus pocus like some magic, i realized that it was true.

 

[Persol]

Originally posted by edgar
if u read those, the first story is about the whole earth in general. the second one is about eden and man

Regardless, they describe events in two different orders

Gen.1 (animals then humans)
And God made the beast of the earth... And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image
Gen.2 (humans then animals)
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field...

Gen.1 (male/female at same time)
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen.2 (male, then female)
And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Gen 1: plants before humans
Gen 2: plants after humans

Gen 1: earth formed, then stars
Gen 2: stars, then earth

Gen 1: fowl from water
Gen 2: fowl from earth

 

[Persol]

Originally posted by edgar
It only started from only 1 person believeing in him and look now so many people believe.

Sounds like every other religion and cult to me.

 

[edgar]

1st one:
He said formed out of the ground various birds and animals, doesnt mean there wasnt any animals before, he mad new animals that were to be his COMPANIONS but they didnt prove to be a sutable partner.
2nd:just because it said he created male and female, doesnt mean at the same time. He did create both but male first.



Ill finish twomorow, since it's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy late here c ya

 

[SwedishFish]

please just accept that we are so very young in our understanding of science. it takes time. look at what we knew a century ago. it may take another couple hundred years to figure out how matter began.

p.s. not being able to (knowing how to) explain something does not make the opposite true

 

[Persol]

Originally posted by edgar
He said formed out of the ground various birds and animals, doesnt mean there wasnt any animals before
You should read Genesis a little closer. In Gen 1 atleast some animals were clearly made before man. In Gen 2 it says that EVERY animal was formed from the ground.

just because it said he created male and female, doesnt mean at the same time. He did create both but male first.
Gen 1 says both were created from Gods image, and does not distinguish in 'creation methods'. Gen 2 then adds a new story.

 

[True Wisdom]

Do you even realize that the ancient Hebrews were polytheistic? Are you sure that the bible is completely true? Do you know that some of its stories are borrowed from earlier mythologies?