OKAY, THIS IS A QUESTION TO YOU ATHIESTS, IF THERE WAS NO GOD HOW COULD THE UNIVERSE BE CREATED OUT OF NOTHING? IN SCIENCE YOU CANT HAVE SOMETHING CREATED OUT OF NOTHING. AND, THE CHANCE FOR LIFE RISING ON EARTH RANDOMELY, THROUGH MOLECULES ETC. IS THE SAME CHACNE AS A TORNADO MAKING A 747 IN A JUNK YARD. ITS IMPOSSIBLE, AND YES I DID READ THAT EXCERPT FROM A SCIENCE BOOK
How Was The Universe Created?
- Thread starter edgar
- Start date
No one knows.
~Raithere
P.S. Your caps lock is on.
The qualities of being self-causal or eternal are just as applicable to the Universe as they are to God. The assignment is arbitrary.
Actually, you can. Ref: Virtual particles.
No one proposes that life arose through purely random assembly. Evolution indicates an ongoing process including both random mutation and natural selection.
~Raithere
P.S. Your caps lock is on.
What 'little theories' are you referring to edgar?
My personal "little theory" is probably far too stupid for YOU edgar. I'd hate to embarass myself by exposing my ignorance. Oh wait.. I don't have a problem admitting my ignorance. Do you?
I see that you don't have a problem putting your ignorance on display, but I wonder if you realize what you're doing. I wonder if you can admit that you, too... are ignorant. Can you edgar?
Edgar... you need to calm yourself.
Now, I don't think that "what lead to humans" is exactly that simple, but that is the rough idea.
Not neccesarily. Simplistic common sense doesn't neccesarily apply the things like "the creation of the universe" edgar.. can you see that? Maybe there is no start or stop to the universe. Maybe it's all an illusion. What is time edgar? Maybe it's just an illusion? Maybe you're just imagining me edgar, maybe I'm a figment of your schizophrenia placed here merely to antagonize you and ensure that you don't presume stupid shit about things you don't have a clue about.. and then again maybe there's just no good answered to your original question even though you think there should be. Sorry edgar.. but THAT is truth.
This doesn't make any sense Edgar. Natural selection is not "created from atoms". Natural selection is just an excellent example of observation really. It's quite a simple, elegant proposition which really becomes obvious in retrospect. Not necessarily that pure random mutation is exactly how life as we know it has come to pass, but that in essence, all that can survive, MUST and WILL to the best of it's ability because of plain common sense. Creatures that don't die from exposure to the elements or starvation, don't die and can multiply better than those who die. Since they don't die and can reproduce, they compete for scarce resources with the other creatures and species, changing the environment, thusly leading to a re-evaluation of who does and doesn't die. Get it? It's not rocket science, it's literally brutally simple. It's a fact that DNA mutates. It's a fact that a significant enough mutation leads to some other species.
Now, I don't think that "what lead to humans" is exactly that simple, but that is the rough idea.
Any inflationary model of the universe (and many new ones, who is that italian chick who came up with the new model recently?) accounts for the creation of matter edgar. For real. So, matter is created from SOMETHING and that something.. and this is going to fuck with you .. is most likely "possibility". It simply can be, so it is/was/will be until it cannot be any longer.
Not neccesarily. Simplistic common sense doesn't neccesarily apply the things like "the creation of the universe" edgar.. can you see that? Maybe there is no start or stop to the universe. Maybe it's all an illusion. What is time edgar? Maybe it's just an illusion? Maybe you're just imagining me edgar, maybe I'm a figment of your schizophrenia placed here merely to antagonize you and ensure that you don't presume stupid shit about things you don't have a clue about.. and then again maybe there's just no good answered to your original question even though you think there should be. Sorry edgar.. but THAT is truth.
You put your ignorance on display by making claims like "there had to be this or this is that because this and blah blah blah" but you don't really have an argument. You said "natural selection is made from atoms". That doesn't even make sense bro.
Further, you can't admit to yourself that you don't know the answers so you have to make shit up. That's both ignorant and stupid.
Edgar,
I want you to give me any proof that the universe was created by a supernatural figure.
Better yet you piece of crap, show me a reason why you think the Universe was created in the first place? What evidence do you have that it was created? What makes you think that it just isn't infinite and eternal?
Your pointing out that science doesn't have all the answers is based upon your lack of reasons for theism. In my opinion we will never have all the answers. Is that a reason to believe in a supernatural power? It might be...
Let's just say we prove everything in the universe except how it began. So, we can worship a supernatural for this unexplained phenomina? Praying to a lack of knowledge is a disgusting act in my opinion.
I think that religion should leave science to scientists, the only use religion has in our society is outlining different moral standpoints, and organizing like-minded people into hate groups that are recognized by the government and given tax breaks... wait disregard some of that stuff, I was doing a crazy rant.
But my challenge still stands, show me some proof of how you know anything about the creation. How do you know that everything has to be created?
ZERO MASS
I want you to give me any proof that the universe was created by a supernatural figure.
Better yet you piece of crap, show me a reason why you think the Universe was created in the first place? What evidence do you have that it was created? What makes you think that it just isn't infinite and eternal?
Your pointing out that science doesn't have all the answers is based upon your lack of reasons for theism. In my opinion we will never have all the answers. Is that a reason to believe in a supernatural power? It might be...
Let's just say we prove everything in the universe except how it began. So, we can worship a supernatural for this unexplained phenomina? Praying to a lack of knowledge is a disgusting act in my opinion.
I think that religion should leave science to scientists, the only use religion has in our society is outlining different moral standpoints, and organizing like-minded people into hate groups that are recognized by the government and given tax breaks... wait disregard some of that stuff, I was doing a crazy rant.
But my challenge still stands, show me some proof of how you know anything about the creation. How do you know that everything has to be created?
ZERO MASS
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no reason really. just reacted to your stupid post. *shrug* trying to set you straight. I've seen you post stupid crap in a couple of other threads and let it slide, but this one well, you seem like a smug little bitch who thinks he has a fucking clue and basically, you should show some goddamn respect fucker. There are a lot of wonderful brains here who might teach you something if you'll open yourself to actually learning something, but ...
I expect that you'll be like every other bible thumping theist I've seen (though to your credit I haven't seen you quote "scripture" yet) and not ever listen to anything that people who are earnestly trying to help you. That whole thing is a somewhat frustrating cycle... but it's interesting. Also, everyone has their own style of attempting to get through to the victim of a meme. Generally I attempt to SHOCK the victim and then try to speak to the reasonable aspect of their brain that has sadly lain dormant since they were infected...
EDIT: To practice full disclosure however, I should note that to this point I have seen about ZERO effectiveness in my strategy... but it's fun to rail on idiots like you in that it helps me solidify my own understanding and armory of smart alec commentary.
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True Wisdom
Registered Senior Member
Evolution is a theory, it is not the absolute truth of our beginnings and because we humans do not have the answer to the ever popular question of where we came from, that does not mean a mythological god is the answer also. However, it is completely understandable why most humans wish to use a divine being as the creator as I would assume it would give them migraines to ponder about our beginnings without a magical figure who can create something out of nothing but yet they also contradict themselves when they say that something CANNOT come from nothing! Our modern day logic and reasoning may very well still be primitive or in its infant stages as knowledge is ever growing and we know very little of this universe we live in. Can you be absolutely sure that our laws of logic, reasoning, and science is applicable in some other galaxy? We haven't even gone past our own solar system and we think we have absolute answers.
The current evidence indicates that the universe was not "created". I'm not sure if you understand anything about general relativity, but it implies that time began at the instant of the Big Bang because of the massive (perhaps infinite) curvature of spacetime caused by the gravity of that singularity.
Isn't it funny how people who are trying to claim that modern science is a bunch of bull and logic is NOT the correct way to view the world incessantly use thise same scientific laws, theories and postulates to attemt to support their points of view?
1.) If science is wrong, and all knowledge comes from God, then why would you assert that something can't come from nothing?
2.) Isn't probablilty a math? Therefore a science?
3.) How do you know that life needs to exist before Natural Selection comes about? Oh yeah, observation, logic and reason. The BASIS of SCIENCE!
4.) If something CAN'T come from nothing, then God COULDN'T have created the universe.
Self-replicating molecules; inorganic molecules that are able to replicate. The principle of natural selection would apply to these inorganic molecules in the same way it does to life; those molecules that are better suited for survival produce more 'offspring' than those that are not.
Technically speaking, yes; Evolution is specifically about the genetic composition of a population but the principles of evolution apply to many things.
Many of the problems that crop up in such discussions and in many peoples' understanding of Biological Evolution is that the word evolution has many meanings. The word evolution, in fact, was used over 100 years before the theory of evolution was invented.
The fact of Evolution "Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations" is not under debate, it is a fact. The various theories of evolution that attempt to describe exactly how evolution has and does occur is what Creationists hotly refute and the particulars of which are still being debated by Biologists.
The Creationist terms micro-evolution and macro-evolution are really only an attempt at diversion because they really describe the same thing, only over shorter and longer series of generations. If one accepts that small changes happen over a short number of generations then one must provide a mechanism whereby these changes do not accumulate over many generations to become large differences (speciation or a new genus). To the best of my knowledge, no such mechanism has even been hypothesized much less proven.
Not according to the evidence. There is a phenomenon known as the Casimir Effect which is caused by particles that pop into and out of existence without cause due to the quantum uncertainty principle.
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/VirtualParticle.html
Of course, this is something of a tertiary argument; there is no reason to assume that the fundamental forces of nature are not eternal. Again, the it is the arbitrary application of a property (being eternal) to one solution (cosmology) but not to the other (God).
~Raithere
when i said that something cant come from nothing i mean that stuff just cant appear if theirs nothing to influence them. The bible gives us an explanation on how stuff was created , besides the keyword i said was S C I E N C E as in what scientists tell us.
IF you believe in god, than you believe that he is all powerful. It says that in za bible.
None of you have reallly still have explained How something could be created out of nothing WITH OUT god or a diety. If you say our logic and reasoning cant explain this then maybe it has some flaws???????
IF you believe in god, than you believe that he is all powerful. It says that in za bible.
None of you have reallly still have explained How something could be created out of nothing WITH OUT god or a diety. If you say our logic and reasoning cant explain this then maybe it has some flaws???????
That is my point that you seem to have completely missed.
You are saying that science is imperfect, and fallible human logic applied to observations is not reliable or dependable.
Therefore, how can you assert that something can NOT come from nothing because science says so??
That is akin to ME saying, "I think the Bible is a bunch of bullshit." which I do.
THEN turning around and saying, "Well obviously we know that the world had a global flood because the Bible SAYS so."
Do you see what I am getting at?
Following me?
So, the question IS.
How do you know that something can not come from nothing?
Other than science tells us so, because it is quite obvious that you don't believe in science.
If you don't believe in it, then you can't use it to support your argument.
True Wisdom
Registered Senior Member
Read my previous post. If we do not have an answer to any question that may exist, is God the answer? Because we, those here on the forum, can't give you an answer to our beginnings does that constitute your god as the answer?
Everyone here on this forum has limited knowledge no matter what they claim. We can only have specualtive answers to our beginnings. Let me ask you a question or two:
Why is it your god that is the creator of all? There are many religions established long before christianity that had their own creation story. Why did you happen to choose the Jewish god as the sole creator?
Everyone here on this forum has limited knowledge no matter what they claim. We can only have specualtive answers to our beginnings. Let me ask you a question or two:
Why is it your god that is the creator of all? There are many religions established long before christianity that had their own creation story. Why did you happen to choose the Jewish god as the sole creator?