How to be saved as a Christian - Faith vs. Works

H

heflores

Banned
Banned
Now a day, you hear christians saying that to be saved you must confess that Jesus is your only lord and savior. I reveiwed the bible for criteria for salvation and I found all kind of contradictions. One verse said only by grace and NOT by works, other verses says by believe in Jesus Christ and NOT law of the land, others say you need faith and work, but does not specify faith in god or the Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ himself says that you're saved by following the commandments and doing good, but does not mention believing in Jesus the man for the commandments do not have Jesus name on them.....

Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."

Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."


James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."
 
first, the verses from Ephesions and Galations complement each other (tho i'm sure you realize that, it sounded like at frist you didnt)

What Jesus said (quite often throughout the gospels) is that to get to Heaven we must believe in Him, nothing else will get us there..........'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me' (John 14:6)..........also 'For God so loved the world that He gave His only son so that everyone WHO BELIEVES IN HIM will not perish but have eternal life' (John 3:16).

However, He also said that 'works without faith are nothing, and faith without works is nothing' (cant find the actual verse right now) which means that no matter how many good works you do in your life time, it will never be enough to get into heaven......you must have faith to get in.........BUT if you claim to have faith, but it is not backed up by actions then your faith isnt true and you wont get into heaven either......you must believe and show your belief through your actions...........and trust me, when one follows Christ, they feel a desire to do good works and live in that way.
 
Originally posted by New Life
However, He also said that 'works without faith are nothing, and faith without works is nothing' (cant find the actual verse right now)
Click to expand...

And you won't. But
Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."

it says not of works? If it was both, it would have put them both or at least removed works without mention. But the verse goes to the trouble of excluding works.
 
Originally posted by heflores
And you won't. But
Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."

it says not of works? If it was both, it would have put them both or at least removed works without mention. But the verse goes to the trouble of excluding works.
Click to expand...

I know thats not exactly what the verse says, but I do know that there is a verse along those lines, but its not Ephesians 2:8-9.
 
Would you want to worship a God that would punish good people just because they question his existance?
 
Originally posted by heflores
Now a day, you hear christians saying that to be saved you must confess that Jesus is your only lord and savior. I reveiwed the bible for criteria for salvation and I found all kind of contradictions. One verse said only by grace and NOT by works, other verses says by believe in Jesus Christ and NOT law of the land, others say you need faith and work, but does not specify faith in god or the Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ himself says that you're saved by following the commandments and doing good, but does not mention believing in Jesus the man for the commandments do not have Jesus name on them.....
_______________________

It would help if you read the whole Chapter instead of picking up a verse by itself that on the surface appears to support you words


_______________________
Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."
_______________________

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of GOD: 9 Not of works, that know man should glory (in other words so they wouldn't boast of doing good.)

_______________________
Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."
_______________________

if your read the rest of the Chapter this is quite clear Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of GOD: for if righteousness come by the LAW, then Christ is dead in vain.

_______________________
James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
_______________________
Reading the whole Chapter would be beneficial
This is about believing in Christ and doing the works because your heart wants to and therefore the faith in Christ working through you not the LAW.

_______________________
Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."
Click to expand...

This is PART of the story and you have left quite a bit of it out............
verse 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possesions. ( In other words he valued his possesions more than he valued Christ who was God manifest in the flesh) 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples. Verily I say unto you, It is hard for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Reading the entire Chapter is helpful

:bugeye:
 
Originally posted by Persol
Would you want to worship a God that would punish good people just because they question his existance?
Click to expand...

I have questioned the existence of God and Christ many times in my life and I was never punished..............just always led to the truth. I don't question any more.;)
 
Are jews going to hell for not accepting jesus as their saviour?
There are so many religions but apparently only one of them is going to heaven, according to south park its the mormons:p

somewhere in hell
Hells mc: "ok everybody, welcome to hell, we need all of you to.."
Christian: "hey! hey! wait a second. What am I doing here? I've been living the perfect christian life!"
Hells mc: "aaah I'm afraid only MORMONS go to heaven, thats right MORMONS was the correct answer"
Christian: "Well how the hell were we supposed to know?!"
Hells mc: "they've been trying to tell you for ages, you've simply been slamming the door in their face"

(i'm paraphrasing)

See the point that makes? So many religions want you to believe in them but believing in them means you are automatically contradicting a different religion and therefore, according to them, going to hell. I can understand if someone says leading a generally good life gets you into heaven but saying you MUST accept jesus christ as your saviour is ridiculous and ego-tystical.
I don't believe any of them but some are crazier than others.
 
Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
Hells mc: "they've been trying to tell you for ages, you've simply been slamming the door in their face"
Click to expand...
Lol.

This is why I think that deeds would be the logical answer. Belief excludes people for no apparent reason, other then spite.
 
Why Jesus had to come in flesh - To tell live according to the commandments. Faith without good works were plenty in those times. Having faith in Jesus is to follow what he says. Having faith and does not bother about how He wants the faithful to live by good ways defeats the purpose of his mission. Who is going to judge the unfaithfuls who live like good christians - fighting over this is not ur business. Let the God judge them..!
 
deicide_flick.gif

0021.gif
 
Let the God judge them..!
Click to expand...

Who is he to judge? I didn't ask to be here and abide by anyones rules. I signed no contracts demanding i behave and act in a manner befitting him, thus his judgements are unfounded and pretty ******* rude.

Above all else mankind has free will. That is the one true basic right of humans. As we are apparently made in his image im sure the big man upstairs would understand and not be so fast to judge. If a man wants to believe in something or someone else he can and God has absolutely no place to judge him.

When i was young i was often told stories about how God was kind, forgiving and wonderful. I heard stories about how Satan was pure evil.

Later on in life I read how God drowned everyone except Noah and some animals. I read how God turned a guys wife into a pillar of salt. I read many things God had done to harm and destroy those he had apparently created. All of a sudden I was at a loss. Satan is the bad guy right? Ummm So why is God the one doing all the killing, all the judging? What ******* right does he have striking people down with lightning because they use their basic right to free will and freedom of thought? The last excuse I heard for Lots wife being turned into salt was that she has disobeyed a direct order not to look at the town God was destroying.... That makes it all so much better.

Believe in me or im gonna kill your wife, burn down your village and send you to hell to burn for eternity. What a pleasant being this God must be. Looks like i dont have much choice in the matter.. *Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya*
 
Your grievances and declarations were duly noted.. I will show U how ******* reasonable I am in due course.. Do u really have an absolute free will... Amen .

- God

:m:
 
Thanks for showing without any shadow of a doubt your blatant inability to answer a question. Being God I wouldn't have thought it would end up too much of a burden.

Tell me God, why did you kill Lots wife? Why did you burn villages and the people residing in them and why did you drown pretty much all of mankind?

But more important than those petty questions you find hard to answer I have one real effort provoking question for you..

Whats the difference between you and the devil?

Amen.
 
Hmmm... Why do u bother to know of Lots Wife's end.. When I tell people not to do something clearly, they tend to do the same.. I give u that limited free will.. and u misuse it. When are u going to listen to me without me taking to the stick..

Devil..? who is it..? Are u talking about your arrogance and ignorance..?

Anyway I like your questions on my morality.. Though I need not answer you for my each & every action I do answer u for the first and last time.. Try to save your soul.. Don't let that "Devil" mislead U. Peace.

- God, again

:m:
 
Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
Are jews going to hell for not accepting jesus as their saviour?
There are so many religions but apparently only one of them is going to heaven, according to south park its the mormons:p

somewhere in hell
Hells mc: "ok everybody, welcome to hell, we need all of you to.."
Christian: "hey! hey! wait a second. What am I doing here? I've been living the perfect christian life!"
Hells mc: "aaah I'm afraid only MORMONS go to heaven, thats right MORMONS was the correct answer"
Christian: "Well how the hell were we supposed to know?!"
Hells mc: "they've been trying to tell you for ages, you've simply been slamming the door in their face"

(i'm paraphrasing)

See the point that makes? So many religions want you to believe in them but believing in them means you are automatically contradicting a different religion and therefore, according to them, going to hell. I can understand if someone says leading a generally good life gets you into heaven but saying you MUST accept jesus christ as your saviour is ridiculous and ego-tystical.
I don't believe any of them but some are crazier than others.
Click to expand...

In the end you have to follow your own heart...........
God is the only one going to be doing the judging.........
A lot of people look good and do good on the outside but on the inside they are rotten..........this is just as true with Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc.. etc..
I personally don't go to organized religious institutions........I was never able to find God there.......Why? Wasn't my path. But God reached me anyway. Do I hate religious institutions? NO.......if they help one person overcome the despair of there life than they have done a great service. I certainly know about the despair of life. I do consider myself a Christian and I do believe that Jesus was the Messiah. However I understand your bitterness with all the religious institutions........I have sat there many times in judgement of what they are doing and claiming they know all, but, as I said I was sitting in judgement.
 
Are u talking about your arrogance and ignorance..?
Click to expand...

Hey man you're the one pretending to be god, and assuming you can answer in place of him. If there is god im sure he can give me that answer. Yes/no? It's amazing how people often throw the terms arrogance/ignorance around obviously without the slightest clue to what they mean. But hey, continue as you mean to go on.
 
Faith vs. Works

Firstly I cannot say that there are a list of steps to being saved, it is a process and many steps are required for all to be saved, but it is a personal experiance that isn't something that you complete and then move onto another endevor. I would say that being saved is more like a marriage where you get saved and then you end up working at it and enjoying the fruits of it.

Faith vs. Works was put into prospective for me this way. Works in an attempt to be saved dosen't work! Having faith, being born again into the very nature of Jesus Christ will result in fruits of our labours (which BTW how we know one another). Thus faith that produces works. You know the old saying that says do something that you love and you will never work a day in your life, do something that you don't want to do and labor every moment you are doing it - it's a lot like that.

There are three phases in salvation:
Justification - Being taken out of the sinful state and therefore justified
Santification - Cleansed from the the impurities that you bought with you
Baptisim of the Holy Ghost - Being reborn into service

I could go on and on (and I ususally do :) ) but I hope that this helps.
 
Originally posted by heflores

How to be saved as a Christian - Faith vs. Works
Now a day, you hear christians saying that to be saved you must confess that Jesus is your only lord and savior. I reveiwed the bible for criteria for salvation and I found all kind of contradictions.
One verse said only by grace and NOT by works, other verses says by believe in Jesus Christ and NOT law of the land, others say you need faith and work, but does not specify faith in god or the Jesus Christ.

]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

They are both true, How?
Your works are an expression of your faith.
Works are faith expressed.
And Jesus Christ is God manifested in flesh, He said:
"If you see me, you've seen the father...."
Why would any group claim to accept Jesus as a prophet, but not believe everything He said..?

There are NO contridictions in the bible, only truths hiden in a mystery:

1Cor. 2:7-8 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

TheVisitor
 
Last edited:
christians are pussys. turn the other cheek and let me slap it again. If someone hit me or my wife and kids they would be BLEEDING From the FACE. I will BEAT the christian who lets his Family suffer for his stupid beLIEfes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top