I can't stand it... Lurking mode disengaged.
Vienna. DAH-ling. A spanking is in order.
Where did all the wonderous things come from for scientists to discover in the first place, and all the things that are just laying there waiting to be discovered?
You're guilty of a logical fallacy, I'm afraid. Since humans have the ability to recognise patterns in nature, this suddenly is the work of some divine Creator? The fact that there is complexity in nature that humans can codify does NOT lead to the statement "Well God must have done it, since our minds can make sense of it!" Nothing could WORK without some kind organisation, so it seems, but to simply ascribe it all to 'God' without a second thought is both naive and foolish in the extreme.
What about all the subjects that mankind might never discover at all?
Like the fact that there is a God?
How come all these "accidents" of evolution occured so perfectly, and why?
*Sigh*... peruse
http://www.talkorigins.org/. I don't have the energy to nail you for your ignorance about evolution.
Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, all laws of Science existed before man appeared, so who made these laws? Not man was it?
You're putting the cart before the horse. These laws are the sum of
human observations upon a set of happenstances. We did not 'make' these laws, we simply observed the world/universe in action and then made sense of it.
You mistake science for religion; religion is dogma that is simply said to BE while science is based upon observation. Religion has a vested interested in calling the status quo 'fact', while science exists to uncover FACT, regardless of what it may be.
No one is shaking in any type of robe, and religion is not futile.
Nor did, I think, the dinosaurs quiver in their skins.
Ha ha Q, you are funny. Your comments are transparent, I can see where your coming from.
If you can't answer the questions I asked you, then just come right out and say it.
No, your brain is faulty. You dropped a sound-byte followed by a series of ignorant observations and called it a valid arguement and he called you on it. I suggest taking your own advice, if the shlock I'm reading is the best you can come up with.
Ok Q, you said "Science makes no attempt to stifle religion... it doesn't need to... it will overcome religion as people overcome their fears and their ignorance."
How do you think science will overcome religion?
What are these fears and ignorance that you say people will overcome?
Don't be simple. You just answered your own question while asking it; religion breeds fear because it RELIES on it to keep the flock in lock-step, and its teachings about the world are wholly ignorant to observed and established fact.
How will science overcome religion? You obviously are ignorant of history as well as science. Galileo comes to mind as someone who discovered that science said differently from the religious party line. Galileo was forced by the church to recant his statements about the nature of the solar system (i.e. that it's heliocentric as opposed to terracentric as church doctrine would have it), even though today every man, woman and child with a SCRAP of education takes this observable fact for granted.
Countless times throughout history science and religion have come to a head, and 100% of the time science has emerged the victor, even if it isn't believed by all for centuries after the fact. I challenge you to name ONE instance when religion has irrevocably disproved scientific observation.
Q, very nice. Use a few Bible statements here and there and wallah! you think you've answered the question. Aha, sorry, wrong answer!!! Try again
(sidenote: you demonstrate your ignorance about LANGUAGE by using the term 'wallah', which is a depressingly American bastardisation of 'voila'. Science, logic, history, language... will the list never end?)
Actually, he ILLUSTRATED the answer for anybody with half a brain to see by pulling out of your religion's own holy book the inescapable attitude toward God. Fear him, fear him and his mighty wrath! Love him and he'll love you, but if you don't love him... watch out!
THAT'S the kind of fear he refers to. Obviously, seeing a dozen seperate biblical references to FEARING GOD (pretty cut and dry to me) has gone completely over your head.
As a point of interest, the above statements make sense once you understand the Bible properly, but you need to have a certain talent to understand the Bible.
Perhaps one needs a talent such as this to 'understand' the bible as you do?
I really wish I hadn't used up my 'don't be simple' insult... it feels so very appropriate for re-use.
Right, now as was saying....wrong answer. You tried to apply your "reasons" to the Christian faith only. If you remember in your original statement you said science will overcome religion. You are actually using the word that decribes all faiths in the world. So, if you can, explain how science will overcome religion (Islam, Bhuddists, etc) and can you quote the Koran as you have the Bible for examples of fears and ignorance.
Huh? What the hell are you babbling about? 'the word that describes all faiths'? Are you daft, or did you take a special course (such as getting into a motorcycle accident without a helmet on)? Buddhism does NOT use fear (which is the main theme in ALL of Q's bible quotes); in fact it actively works against it, since fear is one of the many enemies of intelligence/enlightenment.
You're starting to remind me of someone... I'm not sure who yet. I'm sure it will come to me.
Now that we have met again in debate, and you been a science buff. Will you also answer these questions I asked you earlier, you never did answer them, did you??
He's answered all of your questions. Naturally, since the answers were rational and based in FACT, they went over your brain-damaged head.
Where did all the wonderous things come from for scientists to discover in the first place, and all the things that are just laying there waiting to be discovered?
How come all these "accidents" of evolution occured so perfectly, and why? Was it all just luck, just by chance?
Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, all laws of Science existed before man appeared, so who made these laws? Not man was it? Or was that a case of luck as well?
Hows this for a theory:
In the beginning there was void, nothing, just like mathematics.
Then accidentally, a cell appeared! Wow!!!
I don’t know how, but I think the hurricane, lightning, & earthquake just made it all by chance or “physics”.
Then the single cell survived like a barbarian and accidentally or luckily got bigger. But this didn’t happen in one single step, but through random luck or chance.
Luckily, Mr Nucleus was made first, he was very strong and he was waiting until Mr. Cytoplasm appeared. Then later on Mr. Mitochondria accidentally appeared, he said to Mr. Cytoplasm and Mr. Nucleus "Sorry that it took me millions of years to appear, its just that Mr. Earthquake didn’t shake me right at first but it doesn’t matter, I have accidentally appeared now, thanks for waiting”
Then Mr. Ribosome accidentally appeared, then thousands and thousands of other parts just accidentally appeared to join the rest of the crew until it became a fully develop cell.
You wouldn’t believe it but for some weird reason the first parts were mysteriously strong and survived on their own for millions of years without any help until the rest of the parts appeared to become a fully developed cell.
This cell was very strong, strong enough to survive alone and to replicate itself trillions and trillions of times and it just by chance, became fish!!
This fish then became land mammals, then dinosaurs, then here we are today zillions of zillions of years later, and it was all just by accident!
So according to this theory, you can put a raisin outside, and millions of years from now that sun dried grape will turn into dinosaurs, fishes, birds, etc., thanks to the simple laws of physics.
We have only the one intelligent designer. Accept this, or share this pathetic theory.
Wow... now I know who you are...
Doesnt it make sense that atom mysteriously moved around by itself then CHING CHING! cytoplasm appeared, then it waited 1 million yrs then CHING CHING! another part appeared called "nucleus" then atoms runs around again in the pond then CHING CHING! then another million years CHING CHING! ribosome appeared, each waited millions of yrs because mr. earthquake couldnt design the right shape of ribosome to fit the cell membrane which has been waiting already for 1 million yrs, then mr. earthquake did its job again and gathered atoms together then CHING CHING! it became mitochondria magicly and each waited 1 million years. THEN later on thousands of the cell's parts appeared at once then it mysteriously came to life!! AND WHAT DO U KNOW? They happen to mysteriously have DNA!! WOW!
Then those little cells like runs around fast like speedy gonzales and bumps around over and over, until it became heart, liver, brain, plus the wind and hurricane keeps blowing their way that it sculps the form until all kinds of atoms were glued together and was magicly shaped into a fin, gills, until CHING CHING! it became a fish!!! then that fish became dinosaurs! CHING CHING AGAIN! Then that dinosaur ate grapes(which also magicly appeared) but the dinosaur guy was mean to one grape and spit it out, then the grape thought to itself "One of these days, i will bcome big and will kick your butt", SURELY millions of earthquake, tornado and lightning together, that same grape turned into a raisin, then into dinasaur! then that dinosaur remembered the bad thing that happened to him when he was a grape, so he kicked all the dinosaurs butt, and thats how they got instinct.
Therefore there is no God, and nature is pure chance.
... MUSCLEMAN/whatsupyall, my old friend! Now you're smurfing with at LEAST two other aliases! What new depths will you sink to next?
Want some advice? If you're going to smurf, at least TRY to make new arguements, rather than just cutting and pasting your old ones, then removing the caps and improving the spelling. It's far more convincing than someone spouting IDENTICAL nonsense to yourself.
"You cram these words in mine ears against the stomach of my sense."
William Shakespeare - The Tempest, act II.
Too true...
Fear=Respect, Love, Adore.
It doesn't mean your scared or frightened by Him. Just respect him for who He is, a Father. Thats what it means to me.
You must have had a terrifying childhood. Fear is the opposite of respect. Fear is just that, FEARING somone for what they might do (or have done). Respect is based upon admiration, trust, and mutual decency.
I think Govenor Tarkin said it quite well:
"Fear will now keep the outer systems in line... fear of this battlestation!" Namely, the power that the Deathstar had to destroy an entire planet would be more than sufficient to keep otherwise disgruntled worlds in line.
If Orwell had commented on religion, he might have had this to say...
Fear=Respect
Hate=Love
Ignorance=Wisdom
A man who fears God is a man who takes God seriously; who takes his words and commandments seriously; who listens to what he has to say with seriousness and respect.
He is a man who believes God's commandments are supposed to be kept and that breaking them is dangerous. He is a man who is afraid to go against God, afraid to disobey him, afraid to disregard any of his commandments or take them lightly.
He is a man who is afraid of God in this sense. It is all like a young boy who has a righteous, good father for whom he has the greatest respect.
The father demands obedience and the boy is afraid to disobey. The boy knows that his father expects to be taken seriously. And he is afraid not to do so. So he fears his father in this sense.
However, although he fears his father, he also loves him. He knows that his father is righteous, just, and good and that what his father says is true and for his own benefit.
He knows that although his father requires respect and obedience his father loves him; and, indeed, it is just because his father does love him so much that he requires this respect and obedience.
I am astounded at how blithely you can contradict yourself. A man who fears God listens to what he has to say with seriousness and respect? If a man truely respected God he WOULD NOT FEAR HIM. You simply rehash your grossly inaccurate point that Fear=Respect in far more words.
Thanks for the compliment, my caps lock button is broke. So think yourself lucky
To anybody with sense, that's a base insult because it means that you're head is so far up your ass you're breathing grey-matter. My case that you are muscleman/whatsupyall is strengthened.
And I bet you were brought up with no respect for anyone, and it shows
Typical Christian thinking. One does not 'respect' (READ: fear) God, therefore one respects nobody. Idiot.
Oh dear the pathetic idiots have found out there's a Christian trying to have a debate.
Phrenetic says "Doh, lets go and say fings he wont like"
Q says "Dammit, he gone and asked me questions I can't answer, I fink I'll insult him now"
Q and Phenetic in unison "Dohhhhhhhh".
Note the operative word: TRYING. So far, you've done nothing but demonstrate supreme ignorance and the inability to beat my dingleberries in a rational debate, let alone Q or Phenetic or Thor or GB-GIL or fadingCaptain or Xev or Tiassa or myself or... etc etc ad nauseum ad infinitum.
Are you quite finished? Because there's a WHOLE lot more where that came from. Return to the hole you crawled from, muscleman, I have smacked down far better debators than you could ever hope to be.
"I do desire we be better strangers."
William Shakespeare - As You Like It, act III.