You need to get something clear, although I doubt you'll even bother to understand.
You have a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
Hence, you ARE religious, by definition. To deny it is dishonest.
How much do you stake on your opponent being wrong?
- Thread starter greenberg
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You need to get something clear, although I doubt you'll even bother to understand.
You have a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
Hence, you ARE religious, by definition. To deny it is dishonest.
agreed. participation engenders both positive and negative emotions depending on the discussion and circumstance. yet i rather that everyone is correct rather than mistaken in their propositions. the former situation is definitely something that i am desirous of. i prefer sci to be populated by rational thought rather than not
your op introduced some additional distinctions when contrasted with the tt.
theist/atheist/religion
as an atheist..... if a theist provides irrefutable proof of any or some of his conjectures, i'd break out the champagne. i've learnt something. my brain made exciting new connections.
so
i prefer lucid conversations. let everyone make valid points. imagine the progress
its actually close to 13k
well look at the semantics. there is pleasure
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known as a flamefest. a troll. one pulls out all the stops. facts and nonfacts slung around like there is no tomorrow in the hopes that the shit will stick and the opponent looking like a smelly and brutish retard
been there done that
there have been phases in sci when that was the default mode
i equate religion with generally accepted institutions which i am not a part of any. being that an institution is defined as a group, then yes, i am a part of a group, in that i share an experience with those people who have a personal relationship with god like i do, so i am religious in that sense, but not the sense that most people assume he is referring to.
i am not indoctrinated. i do not subscribe to a set of beliefs of one religion vs another...
i am not indoctrinated. i do not subscribe to a set of beliefs of one religion vs another...
Being religious has nothing to do with institutions, groups or shared personal experiences. You are religious because you believe in a god(s), it's as simple as that.
So, your religion is completely different from your parents religion? Are they Muslims or Jews?
i don't know what my parent's beliefs are really, and i don't care...that's their business, not mine. if it gives you some perspective, several years ago i had a spiritual experience that sent me into a tailspin so much so that my parents took me to get an mri on my head and to a psychologist. now then, i wish i'd stop reading this thread without logging into the forum. taking mental note...
*insert explitive*
and see, that's why i don't like to say i'm religious, because most people's next question would be, "so what religion are you?" because they want to slap their label on me, stick me in some category, and make a bunch of assumptions about me that probably aren't true. i'm the religion where you have experiences of a spiritual nature that lead you to believe certain things. is that an institution? well, i know i'm not the only one this is happening to, so in that regard, yes, i am part of a group of people who also have spiritual experiences which they learn things from. do we learn the same things? i don't know, probably not and i don't really care. we all learn what we need to know. i do NOT want to be affiliated with any organized religious institution, doctrine, or dogma because i am an individual who's having a personal relationship with the lord, and i'm not stupid enough to think that he only communicates with people who belong to some certain organization or are familiar with some certain doctrine. god's going to accomplish his will through us whether we think we know what he's doing or not or whether we think we know what we're doing or not. i've heard him speak to me through someone who doesn't even believe in him at all! the reason that i use christian terminology alot is because it's what i'm most familiar with, not because i think that the bible is the only divine inspired writing in existence. shit i've had a spirit write things through me before so...what does that say? but from what i've experienced, the bible is divinely inspired, and jesus is the savior of humanity. does that mean that there's no truth to be found in other sacred texts? no! the bible is the only text that claims a savior. and he is it for me.
and see, that's also why i said what i did to greenberg about whether or not someone wants to know god. this isn't about following some doctrine. you can't intellectualize or theorize god. you experience him, and it knocks you on your ass. it turns your world upside down and inside out. to further the appropriate analogy we've heard here...i come out to this forum, and i witness the intellectual circle jerk that's going on, and i'm make the assumption that if some of you guys were faced with the opportunity to actually get laid, you'd be scared to death. are you willing to have your life turned upside down and inside out? are you willing to take the scrutiny, and condesention, and isolation, and downright abuse that people who claim to have a relationship with god do, by somebody a lot like you? are you willing to be labeled delusional, or stupid, or uneducated, or insane just because you're aware something that some judgmental asshole isn't aware of and attest to it? are you willing to give up your life, and i mean GIVE UP YOUR LIFE, for the perpetuation of god's will and the greater good? it doesn't have anything to do with intellect. it has to do with humility. that's why i said that someone's intellect can actually be an impedence to knowing god.
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Yorda,
some people regardless of a logical explanation to the contrary would still WANT to believe in an eternal hell. I believe it's their way of getting back at people who have disagreed with them or have caused them anxiety,pain,etc or perhaps it's a deep seated internal set of prejudices coming to the surface and using God as the vehicle to vent on others.
and as far as I understand Jews don't believe in Hell - it was made up by Xians to scare up support.
And just by asking this question you have also stated that you believe there is eternal hellfire, existing objectively for all of us, and that going there is a matter of one's own choice.
There can be no discussion with you, other than if the person talking to you believes exactly the same things you do; or if they don't take you seriously and don't believe what you say.
- or enlightened.
I find it fascinating how there are many instances where there seem to be only two outcomes: madness, or enlightenment.
What about my avatars?
exempt
nice
i was gonna correct but lazed out
i defaulted towards the body rather than mind
quite erroneous and unjustifiable
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YOU are the one who used the term "eternal hellfire" how many times in one post? and YOU are the one who is using the term to run away from the topic that you attest to want to know so much about. you say you want to know god, you get pissed off when i propose that you're bluffing, i attest to having a relationship with him, and you weasle your way out of every opportunity of having a conversation about him with me. like i said, you don't want to know him. if you ever change your mind, then hey, that's all you ever had to do...
Most likely, they are Christians, right?
By saying you're not religious is lying, because you are, by definition. Categorizing you into the multitude of existing religions is something different.
Theism.
Yet, that is the claim of most if not all theists.
Hence, you are a Christian as Christ is your savior. Simple, really.
You've just made the claim that theists make, as I stated above, the claim you said you wouldn't make.
That of course is complete nonsense. Many are deluded into believing their so-called "personal experiences" are of a divine nature, but that's simply because they've been indoctrinated and are compelled to believe it. Your case is no different. At least, you've never been able to demonstrate it's any different than the rest.
greenberg,
greenberg, can you point out where you have got this undertanding?
Things have changed since back in the day, greenberg. We live in a society where if someone says they believe in God, then they actually believe in God.
I think the reality is somewhat different. I think to really believe in God, you must act accordingly.
Would you believe someone on the strength of their word that they love you?
The souls for whom hellfire awaits, I suspect are some gruesome individuals, who for them, actual evil, pure evil, is good, and good is evil, and act accordingly. We can use the dictionary definition of evil, if you like.
greenberg, let's go through the reasons why you conclude the way you do.
Jan.
greenberg, can you point out where you have got this undertanding?
Things have changed since back in the day, greenberg. We live in a society where if someone says they believe in God, then they actually believe in God.
I think the reality is somewhat different. I think to really believe in God, you must act accordingly.
Would you believe someone on the strength of their word that they love you?
The souls for whom hellfire awaits, I suspect are some gruesome individuals, who for them, actual evil, pure evil, is good, and good is evil, and act accordingly. We can use the dictionary definition of evil, if you like.
greenberg, let's go through the reasons why you conclude the way you do.
Jan.