Define "reject the Messiah Jesus." Muslims accept Jesus as "The Messiah", as written the Quran, so please be more specific with this claim.
Muslims reject the atonement of the Messiah Jesus. In fact they claim that Jesus was not crucified. So for muslims Jesus is not their Redeemer who has paid for their sins. He is to them just another prophet. To have access to the atonement that Jesus secured we must believe that He secured it. Belief that Jesus existed is pointless unless we believe He atoned for our sins.
Also, in Hinduism there are have been 9 great incarnations of God, or 9 great "avatars." The tenth, the Kalki Avatar, should be arriving in, say, some odd thousands of years. Jesus, is not one of the ten great Avatars, however he is "accepted" by them as a minor one. Does this acceptance of Jesus as a "minor Avatar" grant them heavenly access?
No. There is only one way to eternity with God and that is by accepting the Messiah Jesus for the atonement of ones sins.
Also, Jesus doesn't even make the Hindu top 25 avatar list.
Why should a hindu list concern me?
Not only do I NOT admire them, I despise them and are utterly disgusted by basically all Catholic "Leaders." To me they are worse then most murders, adulterers, etc.
I do not despise the people as much as i despise their lies and the injury those lies do to the perception of The gospel amongst the non-believing community. The people are forgivable if they turn away from the deception they believe in or are caught up in or are taking an active part in promoting.
Nor do I desire to defraud people. It is a disgusting practice. I was simply pointing out that the early catholic Church leaders did.
Ok, you just had a funny way of expressing it.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
LOL. Okay, great.
Hey Ice, since your too proud to say it I'll just say it for you: YOU DO NOT KNOW.
There are alegedly 2.1 billion people on this earth who have been tallied up as Christians (basically the Catholic Church just made up whatever number they wanted and told the surveyers that number).
I personally believe that 99.999% of that 2.1 Billion HAS NOT spoken in tongues over the course of their lives, or has not had some kind of vision or experience. Therefore, it's safe to say that 99.999% of "Christians" have not been baptised by the Holy Ghost.
My church, which is non-demoninational Christian, has had a harsh history with this "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" deal. There came a point when the idea of H.S. Baptism started spreading around the church and suddenly all the old timers became obsessed with it.
My grandparents got caught up in the H.S. Baptism frenzy. They were genuine good people who meant well and wanted to serve God/Jesus as best as they could. But they became almost depressed/extremely worried about the fact that they had not yet been baptised with the H.S. My grandma died fairly young of breast cancer. I never met her. However, it almost disgusts me aside from pissing me the hell off that she probably died on her death bed worried sick that she hadn't been baptised by the Holy Ghost. That's why this issue really gets to me, and I'm tired of people's bullshit.
Ahhhh you reveal much about your past nds1. I am going to have to reply to your baptism points.
I personally believe that 99.999% of that 2.1 Billion HAS NOT spoken in tongues over the course of their lives, or has not had some kind of vision or experience. Therefore, it's safe to say that 99.999% of "Christians" have not been baptised by the Holy Ghost.
I know that there are a few pentecostal churches that say they if you do not talk in tongues then you have not received the Holy Spirit. I suppose this kind of thinking has spread over to your non-denominational church and i know that even some baptist preachers have jumped on the same Bandwagon. Anyway the scriptures reveal that even in the days of the apostles not all who where in the Body of Christ (the real church remember
) spoke in tongues. Lets read shall we:
1 Corinthians 12
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8
for to one is given the word of
wisdom through the Spirit,
to another the word of
knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit,
to another gifts of
healings by the same Spirit, 10
to another the working of
miracles,
to another prophecy,
to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of
tongues,
to another the
interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
This scripture clearly states that different gifts are given to different people. where the people who where given knowledge unsaved because they did not receive the gift of tongues? What about those with the gift of healing? Where they indwelled by the Holy Spirit?? Of course they where.
The doctrine that a person must talk in tongues if they have received the Holy Spirit is just as false now as it was then.
I feel sorry for your grandma if she did die in a state of fear. But one thing that all Christians should do is read the Bible for themselves and ask God for understanding through the Holy Spirit. If more people did that then the false preachers would find it very hard to deceive. If people had taken the time to read the scriptures that i have posted to you nds1 then when some preacher came along with this false teaching it would have been nipped in the bud before it grew.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
The whole "having a mental belief to get to heaven" concept just seems a little off to me.
You can go to heaven if you believe X. If you don't believe X, you will suffer forever.
I think if we are to take the above statement as true then we should reword it to be more specific:
You can go to heaven if you have a strong enough belief in X. If you don't have a strong enough belief in X, you will suffer forever.
In my opinion, 90% of all Catholics have a very weak faith, probably 10-15%. I would estimate that 75% of all other Christians also have a weak faith of around 10-15% of maximum strength. Even Muslims, while appearing on the surface to be more religious, have many adherents which don't really follow the tenants of Islam too well. I knew a few Muslims from America which seemed like they could care less about acting "Godly."
I really am curious though as to what the minimum strength level of faith is in order be considered SAVED. Saved from what? I'm guessing saved means saved from the Lake of Fire, or God's Wrath which is not pretty.
In my church, people are baptised around age 12-13, or supossedly when they are "ready." LOL. What a joke. Are you kidding me? Ready? It's either you get baptised at 12 or 13 or become the joke of the church. The social implications are enormous especially with the social hypocrites in my church, which again disgusts me to the core.
So we can bash the Catholics all we want for baptising people while they are infants, yet my church and many others are really doing the same thing, just 12 years later.
But how strong does someone's faith have to be in Jesus in order to be accepted into heaven, or "saved"? I hope it's not at least 30%, because in that case, 5.9 billion people out of the 6 million in existence are going to the Lake of Fire.
Belief is like pregnancy you cannot be 30% pregnant. You either believe and trust in the atoning sacrifice of the Messiah Jesus for your personal redemption or you do not.
Its both belief and trust and also the repentant acknowledgement of ones need for another to save them. Its not just believing X as if it's like believing that grass is green. It's more than that.
As for baptism if a person wishes to take part in a ceremony of water baptism then it should be at their initiation. No age should be stipulated.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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M*W: Your post jogged a question in my mind. I know a woman who has a 21 year-old retarded child with an IQ of a five year-old. His mother borders on fanatical christianity. Maybe that's an overstatement coming from me, but she's definitely christian in her belief (can't say she practices what she preaches, though). Anyhoo, when her son was about 12-13, he was baptised at the First Baptist Church. He didn't have the foggiest idea what he was doing or what the act meant. To this day, he still thinks Jesus brings babies. (Don't get me started on that one!). Obviously, his baptism was more for her benefit than it was for him. I thought that in the Protestant groups, baptism was supposed to occur at the age of reason, unlike catholics who practice infant baptism and at the age of reason are confirmed. If the kid didn't understand the concept of baptism, what was the purpose?
It was a pointless exercise.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
