How do you know that it was Jesus who died on the cross?

LIGHTBEING said:
Right.....your argument is basically "because I said so". You offer no support whatsoever.

Have Faith in what? You haven't even offered a definition of what you are referring to. Have Faith in your evidence of prophets, saints and messages from God?
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Babbling pagan, STOP. Heed my warning. If it is a painted picture of God you seek you will not find, it is faith that you pray you will find. Have faith, I am in good standing with the father. Have faith you have not beem damned, Have faith or you will burn. Why? Because I say soo.
 
@Knowledge --

You know what no theist has ever been able to adequately explain? You lot, you keep harping on about faith and how it's so awesome, but not a single one of you has ever been able to explain why it's that great.
 
Arioch said:
@Knowledge --

You know what no theist has ever been able to adequately explain? You lot, you keep harping on about faith and how it's so awesome, but not a single one of you has ever been able to explain why it's that great.
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I will explain my understanding and please you explain what you understand

Faith is a belief in something you don't see >
 
@arauca --

Oh come on, that's a complete straw man and a non-sequitur, as you well know.

An atom is something we can't see but we can still find evidence that shows that they exist, we can find no such evidence for god. No, I understand what religious faith is and it's not just "believing in something you can't see", it's believing in something regardless of what you see.

Furthermore this doesn't answer my question. What does the definition of faith have to do with the value of faith?

Here's what I think. You assume that faith has an intrinsic value and because you've made that assumption you haven't really looked at whether or not it does.
 
arauca said:
Then If an eye witness would say that to you would we believe him or not

Do we believe those people who have seen him or not . At same time how did they establish death , Then if we believe in the all mighty , could he do it for him .
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There are no accounts by any eye witness. There are no contemporary accounts of the whole crucifiction-ressurection thing at all. The first accounts of any kind of the myth of Jesus were by Josephus, written a 150 years after the supposed event took place.
 
arauca said:
Faith is a belief in something you don't see >
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If you interpret the phrase 'something you don't see' to mean "that which there is no evidence for, and is beyond the realm of applicability of science", then the statement is correct.
 
Arioch said:
@arauca --

Oh come on, that's a complete straw man and a non-sequitur, as you well know.

An atom is something we can't see but we can still find evidence that shows that they exist, we can find no such evidence for god. No, I understand what religious faith is and it's not just "believing in something you can't see", it's believing in something regardless of what you see.

Furthermore this doesn't answer my question. What does the definition of faith have to do with the value of faith?

Here's what I think. You assume that faith has an intrinsic value and because you've made that assumption you haven't really looked at whether or not it does.
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Please answer what faith is to you . Then I will go over your assumption
 
AlexG said:
There are no accounts by any eye witness. There are no contemporary accounts of the whole crucifiction-ressurection thing at all. The first accounts of any kind of the myth of Jesus were by Josephus, written a 150 years after the supposed event took place.
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Don't say there is no account , You were not there , There are a lot of things that take place and we are not aware . Does the Talmod mention about Jashua do you know ? Have you heard about a Jewish sect called Nazarim.
When He was crucified was should there have been a big hupla ? It was just before passover , when things are quiet . Think about when he rose , should he presented himself before the council and hay here I am ? Thy will get him again .Were the scribes not part of the council . Beside Jesus was not from Judea he was from Galilee, Man think practical.

Would you believe the Nazarim version ?
 
AlexG said:
If you interpret the phrase 'something you don't see' to mean "that which there is no evidence for, and is beyond the realm of applicability of science", then the statement is correct.
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The word evidence , evidence can be circumstantial and direct . direct we can not have , because is 2000 years ago, so we look for circumstantial.
So we have some old writing Talmod mentioned Jesus, should I believe ?
the fact that I am a Christian , I am part of the continuation . Same way you as a Jew , You must have a beginning . Have you seen Abraham , Moses. The Maccabees brothers, Bar Kochab, are you a Safadim ?
 
This may be off-topic but according to the holy Qur'an also Jesus raised the dead.

I have come to you with a sign from your Lord: I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by God's leave. And I heal the blind, and the lepers and I raise the dead by God's leave. (Quran, 3:49)
 
Arioch said:
@Knowledge --

You know what no theist has ever been able to adequately explain? You lot, you keep harping on about faith and how it's so awesome, but not a single one of you has ever been able to explain why it's that great.
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Im happy with my life
 
arauca said:
Then If an eye witness would say that to you would we believe him or not

Do we believe those people who have seen him or not . At same time how did they establish death , Then if we believe in the all mighty , could he do it for him .
Click to expand...

For the most part, if an eye witness said to me that he saw someone die on a cross - I would probably believe him if there was no other motivation or extraordinary claim behind it.

It would be similar to someone saying to me today that they saw someone executed by the Electric chair or lethal injection. I would be inclined to accept what they have offered if it ended there.
 
Knowledge91 said:
Babbling pagan, STOP. Heed my warning. If it is a painted picture of God you seek you will not find, it is faith that you pray you will find. Have faith, I am in good standing with the father. Have faith you have not beem damned, Have faith or you will burn. Why? Because I say soo.
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Random meaningless insults.....why not participate in the conversation and answer my questions? I have no need for a painted picture of God but it seems as though you do since you can't define what it is you are referring to.

"Because you say soo" - really? Offer something of substance :bugeye:
 
If you consider ancient history, how do we know any of that was real? It has to do with character and good record keeping. In modern times, character is less important and the Internet allows people to pretend anything, maybe some people can't fully grasp the concept of honest record keeping.

I look at things based on results. If the entire story was a fabrication, how did this con last so long, especially when competing elements would lie and try to challenge even truth to gain an advantage? Only reality could stand the test of time.
 
I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion. Belief has shown that it can stand the test of time over and over again. Can they all be right or reality?
 
wellwisher said:
If you consider ancient history, how do we know any of that was real? It has to do with character and good record keeping. In modern times, character is less important and the Internet allows people to pretend anything, maybe some people can't fully grasp the concept of honest record keeping.

I look at things based on results. If the entire story was a fabrication, how did this con last so long, especially when competing elements would lie and try to challenge even truth to gain an advantage? Only reality could stand the test of time.
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Can't you accept dishonesty as part of this world? Or secrecy, or how about the destruction of documents to protect someone elses interest?
 
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