How do you feel about people who kill animals for the sheer fun of it?

[Crunchy Cat]

What would be the point of bringing up disabled prey being eaten alive, if it didn't have to do with the topic?

If you were following the conversation you would know it was to show your statement:

"Most predators kill an animal as quickly as possible"

as being incorrect as most predators disable an animal as quickly as possible; hence, the reason I demonstrated a disabled animal being eaten alive.

I'm just two steps ahead of you and ready to address all that nonsense before you even bring it up -- which I knew would be the result of that video.

There is so much dissonance in that statement that it doesn't make sense.

You not appreciating my doing that doesn't change that the video is irrelevant. Same with the sadistic plankton. And I guess sadistic tuna now, too.

I would appreciate coherency, logic, and evidence. So far you have delivered very little in relation to those qualities (the statement above being an example).

So far, you haven't found showed us anything that demonstrates that pleasure motivates the killings in those videos or articles.

If you were keeping track of the conversation you would notice that only one video demonstrated pleasure killing and any others + articles demonstrated other things (mostly to contradict your incorrect assertions).

All of what you have said amounts to a collection of sentences saying "Well I've seen some videos of animals injuring other animals before actually killing them. This has got to mean that they kill for pleasure." Methinks we need more conclusive evidence than that.

*sigh*, I can't understand things for you. I can make assertions, support them, and show you where yours are incorrect, but I can't make you understand any of it.

Just as an FYI, you use "whom" when referring to the object of a verb or verb clause, not a subject.

That's correct.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

For Fun???...Some do kill for sport...
But for fun is a sin..,

Do you think doing something for sport isn't fun? BTW, what is a sin?

 

[Saven]

That's not something that's understandable, crunchycat. It's all just some vague and ethereal tangent that no one except yourself could possibly appreciate.

In the meantime, and back on topic, exactly what would humans find pleasurable about killing defenseless animals? Let's talk about that, since that's the actual topic at hand.

Let's hear everyone's theories. Do such people delight in the suffering of animals? Does the act of killing something weak help make them feel like big brave woodsmen? I have heard some use the reasoning that hunting "makes them feel primal." This is all news to me. I never dreamed that buying a rifle at K-MART and wearing scent-masking chemicals feels helped humans get back in touch with their roots. Perhaps we can hear some theories from those venture out every weekend morning and play Davy Crockett in the woods? Anyone...?

 

[Roman]

Huh ? That question is pretty self-explanatory..

So it's ok to kill something and eat it because you enjoy eating it, but not ok to kill something because you enjoy it? How is there any difference, whatsoever, between these?

As long as I eat a woman after I rape and murder her, it's ok?

 

[Roman]

I think you can readily see that anyone who thus kills those animals surely aren't as squeamish about killing animals as you and others are ...and I'd suggest that there are many of them who actually enjoy it. In fact, it's just my opinion, but I'd say that it would be impossible for anyone to do that work if they didn't actually enjoy killing those animals.

While there are certainly people who work in meatpacking who do enjoy killing, I think the vast majority hate it. From all accounts I've heard, it's grinding, soul destroying labor. Most people that work there can't get jobs elsewhere- blacks, latin americans, and ex-cons.

 

[Enmos]

So it's ok to kill something and eat it because you enjoy eating it, but not ok to kill something because you enjoy it? How is there any difference, whatsoever, between these?

As long as I eat a woman after I rape and murder her, it's ok?

There is a difference between killing an animal in order to survive and then enjoying the food you get off it, and killing an animal solely to enjoy the killing.
You don't have to like killing for food, but even if you do, you're not killing it for perverse reasons.

 

[Roman]

There is a difference between killing an animal in order to survive and then enjoying the food you get off it, and killing an animal solely to enjoy the killing.
You don't have to like killing for food, but even if you do, you're not killing it for perverse reasons.

Bullshit. You're a wealthy, sedentary, westerner. You've never had to do anything to survive in your life. And you also lack the balls to kill what you eat. You want perverse? Your hypocrisy is perverse.

 

[Enmos]

Bullshit. You're a wealthy, sedentary, westerner. You've never had to do anything to survive in your life. And you also lack the balls to kill what you eat. You want perverse? Your hypocrisy is perverse.

Hypocrisy ?
I did not argue against killing your own food in order to survive, did I ?
I'm arguing against killing solely for pleasure.

 

[Roman]

Hypocrisy ?
I did not argue against killing your own food in order to survive, did I ?
I'm arguing against killing solely for pleasure.

If you kill a cow, solely because you enjoy ribs, how is that different than killing a cow because you like the way it bleeds?

Would you say that someone who kills and eats someone because they like the taste of human flesh is less repugnant than someone who kills someone because they like killing?

 

[Enmos]

If you kill a cow, solely because you enjoy ribs, how is that different than killing a cow because you like the way it bleeds?

What's the difference between firing someone because you have to in order to keep the company healthy, and firing someone just because you like to ruin someones life ?

Would you say that someone who kills and eats someone because they like the taste of human flesh is less repugnant than someone who kills someone because they like killing?

When did this become species specific ?

 

[Roman]

What's the difference between firing someone because you have to in order to keep the company healthy, and firing someone just because you like to ruin someones life ?

The former is practical, while the latter is directly for utility.
Other than that? Nothing. That analogy isn't very good, though, since the former instance is of a practical matter, while the second is not.

In the case of you eating meat, but being too big of a pussy to actually kill what you eat, there is no difference.

You either kill something because you like the way it tastes, or you kill it because you like the way it bleeds. In either case, you deprive the animal of life, make it suffer, simply because you value your utility more than the animal's life.

The only reason you find one more repugnant than the other is because we've been told (or it's biological, or both), to not like people who kill for pleasure. To not trust them. And for good reason- people who derive too much satisfaction out of inflicting pain are dangerous, since they could derive such pain out of inflicting it on us. Though I think the actual reasons are a little more complicated. We all, at some level, will enjoy inflicting pain on someone or something, given the right circumstances. It's just that we can't let others know that, because then we've shown them our hand. It's like cheating- everyone cheats, because it's good for the individual, but everyone hates a cheater, because the cheater is costly to you. Does that make sense?

When did this become species specific ?

I am trying to draw out your logical contradictions by using your feelings.

 

[Enmos]

The former is practical, while the latter is directly for utility.
Other than that? Nothing. That analogy isn't very good, though, since the former instance is of a practical matter, while the second is not.

I think the analogy is a good one.
Killing for food and firing someone because you have to are both a necessity. It doesn't matter much if you enjoy it or not.
Killing for pleasure and firing someone to ruin his life are not a necessity but are solely of a sadistic nature.
That's the difference.
People that behave in a sadistic manner are unnerving to most people because they seem to lack compassion, which cannot be a good thing within a group.

In the case of you eating meat, but being too big of a pussy to actually kill what you eat, there is no difference.

I don't see how this is relevant, but I'm pretty sure I could kill to survive if I had to.

You either kill something because you like the way it tastes, or you kill it because you like the way it bleeds. In either case, you deprive the animal of life, make it suffer, simply because you value your utility more than the animal's life.

The difference is in the intent. Perhaps next they want to see how a human bleeds ?
I wouldn't kill anything because I like the way it tastes by the way, I'm not much of a meat0eater anyway.

The only reason you find one more repugnant than the other is because we've been told (or it's biological, or both), to not like people who kill for pleasure. To not trust them. And for good reason- people who derive too much satisfaction out of inflicting pain are dangerous, since they could derive such pain out of inflicting it on us. Though I think the actual reasons are a little more complicated. We all, at some level, will enjoy inflicting pain on someone or something, given the right circumstances. It's just that we can't let others know that, because then we've shown them our hand. It's like cheating- everyone cheats, because it's good for the individual, but everyone hates a cheater, because the cheater is costly to you. Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense. Agreed.

I am trying to draw out your logical contradictions by using your feelings.

Well, my judgment in that example you gave is obviously clouded because it involves a human.

 

[visceral_instinct]

Yippee! Enmos is back online!

 

[Enmos]

Yippee! Enmos is back online!

Huh ? lol

 

[Saven]

If you kill a cow, solely because you enjoy ribs, how is that different than killing a cow because you like the way it bleeds?

Would you say that someone who kills and eats someone because they like the taste of human flesh is less repugnant than someone who kills someone because they like killing?

As I said, one motive is fulfilling a crucial life process. The other is pure malevolence. Malevolence is not good. Malevolence is bad. Malevolence almost always speaks of inner turmoil.

 

[Roman]

I think the analogy is a good one.
Killing for food and firing someone because you have to are both a necessity. It doesn't matter much if you enjoy it or not.
Killing for pleasure and firing someone to ruin his life are not a necessity but are solely of a sadistic nature.
That's the difference.
People that behave in a sadistic manner are unnerving to most people because they seem to lack compassion, which cannot be a good thing within a group.


I don't see how this is relevant, but I'm pretty sure I could kill to survive if I had to.

Nowhere have I ever mentioned anything about killing animals to survive. That was all you, and it is all a red herring. The amount of meat Americans eat is staggering. Americans could survive off of far less red meat. I believe 50% of the continental united states is devoted to beef production (that's what one of my ecology profs say, anyway). Eating meat is a luxury; an indulgence. It is not for survival; at least not the levels of meat consumption in most western nations. You can get by just fine on meat once a week, instead at every single meal.

Well, my judgment in that example you gave is obviously clouded because it involves a human.

That is entirely my point- your judgment regarding any of these issues will necessarily be clouded because it involves very deep seated feelings, and that most of the moral beliefs we hold are contradictory. Our logical brain realizes this, and so we waste a lot of time trying to rationalize why killing for pleasure is different than killing for leather or a tasty hamburger, or why pushing a fat man in front of a runaway trolley is different than flipping a switch that kills him instead, in order to save five other people. Our reactions to these problems are not based in reason, but primitive feelings that have evolved to let us make snap judgments and navigate social spaces without making too many enemies or getting yourself killed or taken advantage of.

 

[John99]

i dont even think the title is accurate. it isnt the act of killing the animal but many other aspects that people like. i have never been hunting myself and i cant even fish but i dont see anything wrong with it when so many people are meat and fish eaters.

 

[Norsefire]

That's because there is nothing wrong with it, even if it is done simply for pleasure.

 

[spidergoat]

...I see no evidence to believe that *any* of the animals you listed are pleasure-killers. We do, however, have way more evidence that they kill for food. After all, food is needed to live. What you are describing isn't. people who are you describing have a fascination with killing. It is as though they want to kill people, but are afraid to do so, so they kill animals instead...

Ah ha. I found an example of animals killing for pleasure. Chimps do it. Chimps do not need to eat meat. A chimp troop observed at Gombe for a period of ten years, killed an average of 9 mammals per year. Furthermore, sharing the kill was an intensely social event. Meat is used by males to bribe females for sex, and to give away in order to establish bonds.

 

[justwonderingjoe]

Ah ha. I found an example of animals killing for pleasure. Chimps do it. Chimps do not need to eat meat. A chimp troop observed at Gombe for a period of ten years, killed an average of 9 mammals per year. Furthermore, sharing the kill was an intensely social event. Meat is used by males to bribe females for sex, and to give away in order to establish bonds.

Sounds like killing for survival, not pleasure, to me. IMO Sex and establishing bonds are necessary for survival of the species. Just My opinion:shrug: