How do you define atheism?

[Enmos]

No - my brother is an agnostic theist.
He believes that God is unknowable - hence he is an Agnostic.
But he also believes God exists - hence he is a theist.

But then he is also irrational in this regard - and he admits this also - but he can not help it as he feels the "need to believe".


Anyhoo - if everyone was rational - all agnostics would (I think) be atheist.
But not everyone is rational.

Well, I was kind of assuming everyone was. At least to a degree. It seems to me one doesn't decide on this kind of thing overnight.. some thought must have gone into it (I hope).

 

[maxg]

Just wanted to point out that "those who dont hold that gods dont exist" must therefore hold that gods do exist (it's a double negative) so that the 2nd option includes people who believe in god (or at least gods, plural, since that was the word used).

 

[elsyarango]

Not so.

Weak atheist: does not believe in any God.
Strong atheist: actively denies the existence of any God.

You definition is closer to 'strong atheist' while mine encompasses both.

Also, my definition includes agnostics. As they cannot take any stance they also do not believe in God.

Enmos, the point is that weak and strong atheism are not proper terms.
Those that fall under what you call "weak atheism" are not atheists at all.
In order for a person to be an atheist, he has to abide by the qualities of what you term as "strong atheism". There is no need for the serm "strong" because strong atheism is the only atheism. Anything else is not atheism whatsoever.

 

[SnakeLord]

Enmos, the point is that weak and strong atheism are not proper terms.

But they are.

The terms have been in use for decades, (negative/positive) and are acknowledged by dictionaries which include both stances.

Perhaps you should write them a strongly worded letter of complaint.

 

[BlueMoose]

The most convincing argument in this case is, indeed, that something can't be purple when it's invisible lol

-What if we are looking the same one, you see it to be purple unicorn and I dont see it ? What then ?
-If I believe you then I´m a Theist.
-If I dont choose to believe you I´m a Atheist 100%, not 99% or 98%...?.
-If I cant take a side, I´m Agnostic, in other words, still searching.
Something like that ?

 

[Sarkus]

Only those who believe there is no God is an atheist.

Do you agree that if you are not a theist then you are an atheist?

If you think that "agnosticism" is a 3rd alternative then you do not fully understand what agnosticism is, as one can be an agnostic theist, an agnostic atheist, or non-agnostic varieties of each.

Theism is the belief in god.
Atheism is non-belief / disbelief in god - which is different from belief in "no god".

As Snakelord has stated - the terms "weak" and "strong" atheism have been used for a long time - and to say they are not proper is ridiculous - as it is precisely because of the confusion that you appear to be precipitating that these terms have been introduced - to differentiate between the categories of atheism.

You'll notice that most dictionaries, for the term "atheism", use the word DISBELIEF in God - and "disbelief" is the "unwillingness/refusal to believe" - not "willingness/refusal to believe in the opposite".

 

[Enmos]

-What if we are looking the same one, you see it to be purple unicorn and I dont see it ? What then ?
-If I believe you then I´m a Theist.
-If I dont choose to believe you I´m a Atheist 100%, not 99% or 98%...?.
-If I cant take a side, I´m Agnostic, in other words, still searching.
Something like that ?

No,

- If you believe me you are a fool.
- If you don't choose to believe me, you are being rational.
- If you can't take a side, then that's your problem lol :shrug:

Furthermore, if I can see it how on earth can it be invisible ??
Since it is invisible by definition, I must be either making it up or are delusional.

 

[Enmos]

Enmos, the point is that weak and strong atheism are not proper terms.
Those that fall under what you call "weak atheism" are not atheists at all.
In order for a person to be an atheist, he has to abide by the qualities of what you term as "strong atheism". There is no need for the serm "strong" because strong atheism is the only atheism. Anything else is not atheism whatsoever.

Wrong.

 

[Cris]

Theism - belief in the existence of a god.

A(not or absence of)theism - absence of belief in the existence of a god.

Absence of belief in a proposition is NOT a belief that the proposition is false.

Atheism is not a belief system and the strong atheist scenario is a special case.

Theism and atheism are perspectives of theology.

Gnosticsm and agnosticsm are perspectives of epistemology.

While all those statements are true the perversity of language and popular usage, even if ill informed, leads the term atheism to mean "belief that gods do not exist", and agnosticsm to mean "don't know if gods exist or not".

Where does that leave discussions between the various parties where such terms are used? In a mess.

 

[BlueMoose]

No,

- If you believe me you are a fool.
- If you don't choose to believe me, you are being rational.
- If you can't take a side, then that's your problem lol

Furthermore, if I can see it how on earth can it be invisible ??
Since it is invisible by definition, I must be either making it up or are delusional.

-Thats called faith
-Not sharing your view, thus, difference in perception.
-No problem

-I cant hear all that dogs can hear, etc...difference of perception.

-Damned, did you lie about the unicorn

 

[BlueMoose]

If you are the only human ever existed and you do even think a God once you are Agnostic, right ? Until this point Atheist.?.
If other human telling you about concept of God, what you havent thinked before, can you refute instantly, with out thinking about concept of God, thats Atheism in its purest form, impossible ?
So, Atheist ~ Agnostic whom have come to conclusion that there is no God. ?.

 

[Hapsburg]

To me, atheism is a theological stance, which can fit into various religious belief systems, or non-religious philosophies. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. This includes implicit, or weak, atheism, as well as explicit, or strong, atheism.

 

[Enmos]

-Thats called faith
-Not sharing your view, thus, difference in perception.
-No problem

-I cant hear all that dogs can hear, etc...difference of perception.

-Damned, did you lie about the unicorn

Are you calling me a dog !?

We are more or less similar to each other. If you are standing beside me and I can see a purple unicorn, so should you. If not, something is amiss wouldn't you say ?

 

[SnakeLord]

It would have been interesting to see who voted what. I am under the distinct impression that those who voted the former are all theists, (except for the thread starter).

Can the mods see who voted what?

 

[Enmos]

If you are the only human ever existed and you do even think a God once you are Agnostic, right ? Until this point Atheist.?.
If other human telling you about concept of God, what you havent thinked before, can you refute instantly, with out thinking about concept of God, thats Atheism in its purest form, impossible ?
So, Atheist ~ Agnostic whom have come to conclusion that there is no God. ?.

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying here but that is not atheism in it's purest form. Those are just stupid people..
The same goes for theists that belief instantly what is being told to them.

 

[Enmos]

To me, atheism is a theological stance, which can fit into various religious belief systems, or non-religious philosophies. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. This includes implicit, or weak, atheism, as well as explicit, or strong, atheism.

"atheism is a theological stance, which can fit into various religious belief systems"

"Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods"

Those two statements are in direct contradiction.

 

[Hapsburg]

Not really. Atheism is a theological stance, which states a lack of belief in a god or gods. Theological stances aren't just statements that affirm a belief in deity; there are also ones that affirm a disbelief in deity.
If you are referring to the word "religion" in my statement, then you need to understand that I define religion in a different way than most others would, and you are probably confused on what I meant by that word.

 

[Enmos]

Not really. Atheism is a theological stance, which states a lack of belief in a god or gods. Theological stances aren't just statements that affirm a belief in deity; there are also ones that affirm a disbelief in deity.
If you are referring to the word "religion" in my statement, then you need to understand that I define religion in a different way than most others would, and you are probably confused on what I meant by that word.

I was referring to 'religion'. How do you define it ?

 

[Sarkus]

I would guess you could regard Buddhism is an atheistic religion, from what I understand. So this would fit with Hapsburg's idea / claim / understanding.

 

[James R]

The poll has a couple of difficulties for me.

We might ask whether atheism is supposed to be a position chosen deliberately by the person who calls him or herself an atheist. This requirement might work, but it requires that a person is aware of what gods are supposed to be, and that he or she then deliberately rejects them as impossible.

The problem is that very few people who describe themselves as atheists actually claim to reject the possibility of god(s) outright. Rather, most take the position that there is no good reason to believe that god(s) exist. But they still leave open the possibility that at some future time enough evidence might conceivably come to light where it would be justifiable and logical to believe in god(s).

I have a bit of problem with people who say that children who have no concept of what a god is are, by default, atheists. I regard atheism as a position, and taking a position requires some understanding of the relevant concepts. Therefore, I would be inclined to say that young children and infants, for example, are neither theists nor atheists. They simply have no beliefs about the existence or non-existence of god(s).