Dog, you're annoying.
Arete,
Welcome to sciforums,
Finding real meaningful answers to ultimate questions is hard work and you will unlikely achieve many insights until you have lived some life, I’m afraid that at 16 you have yet to have experienced very much. Give it some time.
You will need to ascertain what criteria is important to you personally for deciding if something is true or not or even whether the question has been answered. When considering religionist assertions look to see if their claims are born out of desire for a god to be true or whether there is anything of real substance.
Have fun in your search.
Cris
Welcome to sciforums,
Religions are emotionally oriented not factual. If you tend towards reason rather making decisions based on emotions then religious ideas will always seem unreal to you.
Then try science since that is a proven method for providing answers, but don’t expect to find answers to everything, we are still seeking and learning. Also expect to do some hard work understanding the answers. Religion does not provide answers only speculative baseless imaginary fantasies. Try testing any religious assertion and you will be unable to show it has any truth, or basis in truth.
I remember it well, it was when I committed myself to Christianity, but that was nearly 40 years ago. But no matter how hard I tried my tendency towards logical thought prevented me from accepting the baseless emotionally charged assertions of Christianity. From my early twenties onwards I steadily moved towards atheism and have been there ever since.
Finding real meaningful answers to ultimate questions is hard work and you will unlikely achieve many insights until you have lived some life, I’m afraid that at 16 you have yet to have experienced very much. Give it some time.
Nope, that is highly unlikely. Most of us go through many changes to our outlook and beliefs before we settle on something.
I don’t think you understand the meaning of being agnostic, which is primarily a logical position regarding the question of whether a god is possible. To admit we simply don’t know is fully rational and there is never any need to commit to a certain belief for or against. An absence of evidence for a god or against is the current position and to accept we don’t know should be acceptable to any rational thinker.
Those who claim to have found their god do so without any ability to demonstrate their emotional condition is any different from simple self delusion. They must all disregard any claim to rational behaviour when they assert their beliefs.
You will need to ascertain what criteria is important to you personally for deciding if something is true or not or even whether the question has been answered. When considering religionist assertions look to see if their claims are born out of desire for a god to be true or whether there is anything of real substance.
Have fun in your search.
Cris
Cris said:
Heres the Main thing you missed Chris.........
As far as we have record in history or the Bible, none of it ever gives one day that Jesus ever attended school. Never did it says anything about His diploma, says nothing about His education. Now, but His wisdom at the age of twelve just confused the teachers of theology. They couldn't understand that how this Boy, twelve years old, why, would just unroll the Scriptures there in such a way and prove to them things that they didn't know nothing about. See, they were teaching it from a intellectual standpoint, and Jesus knew it by direct revelation.
Now, look at Cain in the garden of Eden. Cain, when he come back to Eden, he was just as religious as he could be. He brought flowers and so forth, and put them on the altar. He brought the fruits of the field and laid them down. He believed in God; he worshipped God; he sacrificed to God; he built a church to God, just as religious as he could be.
But when Abel come, he, by faith... Faith isn't something that's imaginary thing. I want you to get it. Faith is a direct revelation.
See, if you only accept Christ as your Saviour by a intellectual, you haven't got it yet.
You cannot say that Jesus is the Christ, until the Holy Spirit has revealed it to you.
Now, how would Abel ever know to bring a lamb? And he was taught by the same father and mother, and Cain was. The only way, the Bible said it was by faith that he offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, showing that he was just. In other words, he was justified in the sight of God, and God gave him a revelation what the plan of salvation was. That was through the shedding of blood, not the offering of building churches, and coming with great intellectual faith, and saying, "Certainly..."
Cain said, "God, I believe in You. Certainly, I will bow down here." No man facing eternity could ever come falsely, when he knowed that his eternal destination rested upon him finding favor with God. So the man come up with a true heart before God and said, "Lord, I believe in You. And I offer unto Thee this beautiful altar, this beautiful church. And I bring of my substance, and I tithe, and I kneel on my knees, and raise my hands to worship You, Jehovah. Will you receive me?" Just as religious as he could be. But he failed to have the direct revelation.
But Abel, being in favor with God, brought a lamb, not beautiful, pulling the little old fellow with a grapevine around his neck up to be killed. It was bleating and carrying on. Throwed it up on the rock, and took a sharp rock, and chopped its little neck until it bled to death. But by faith he did it, having a spiritual revelation of what God required. You get it?
Now, when they come off of Mount Transfiguration, Jesus of Nazareth asked His disciples, said, "Who does man say that I, the Son of man, am?"
And some said, "Well, You're Elias, and some say You're the prophet."
He said, "But Who do you say I am?"
And Peter, speaking right out, said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Listen, He said, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona (by Jona, rather, his father)," said, "for flesh and blood has not revealed this to thee, but My Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee, 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell cannot prevail against it.'"
Now, the Catholic church wants to say it was built upon Peter, the little stone. The protestant church says it's upon Christ the Cornerstone. But look at the Scripture; it wasn't upon either. It was upon the spiritual revelation that God gave Peter. The same thing he gave Abel at the rock, the altar. He gave Abel spiritual revelation of what the plan of God was. And He gave Peter, not by flesh and blood, not by saying prayers, or going to church, but by spiritual revelation, "Blessed art thou, Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed it to thee, but My Father which is in heaven has revealed it to you. Upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Now, you see why we have so many different denominations? You see why we have so much confusion, one believing this and the other one believing that? Because the spiritual revealed Truth has to come through God alone. The Word's hid from the eyes of the wise and prudent. God said so. And He reveals it to babes such as will learn. So be a baby, humble yourself, and say, "Oh, God, here I am. Just make Yourself known to me. I love You." God will reveal Hisself to you; He will make Hisself known. You see it?
TheVisitor,
Interesting myth. I believe it was plagiarised from an earlier myth.
Uhhh that’s just more fiction.
For sure. Faith is very real. It is simply an entirely unsupportable and irrational position. It is the subject of the faith that is imaginary.
No, it is simply a conviction that something is true in the total absence of any supporting evidence.
It would be nice if the claim is both intellectually appealing as well as emotionally. All you can offer is the emotional angle and we know very well that emotionalism is the worst way to determine truth of anything. To be Christian one must abandon intellect and logic, a reason that most of the best educated and intelligent tend not to be religious.
Riiiight! Basic propaganda.
I hope you realize no one can confirm Jesus actually existed and certainly no one can confirm any of the scriptures refer to an actual events. You appear to be simply quoting popular fictional mythology as if somehow it is truth.
Yup. Tried it. It didn’t work.
You began disecting before you even let what I said have a chance to digest.
You haven't "proved" or "disproved" a thing...except you've revealed your own confusion.
But....you have honestly raised some good points I must admit.
Faith is a kind of revelation thats an individual thing, thats how God keeps his real treasure from falling into the wrong hands.
If you witnessed a crime and were the only witness, you alone could identify the criminal.
That doesn't mean because you can't convince everyone of what you saw it didn't happen...
A revelation from God to you is the same way....you don't have to "prove" it to anyone , as a mater of fact you aren't supposed to...it was for you from God, to increase your faith...and not meant for others at that time, see?
40 years is a long time, and like you said.... we keep learning.
Try again with your life experience now....only try getting your "self" out of the way.
You haven't "proved" or "disproved" a thing...except you've revealed your own confusion.
But....you have honestly raised some good points I must admit.
Faith is a kind of revelation thats an individual thing, thats how God keeps his real treasure from falling into the wrong hands.
If you witnessed a crime and were the only witness, you alone could identify the criminal.
That doesn't mean because you can't convince everyone of what you saw it didn't happen...
A revelation from God to you is the same way....you don't have to "prove" it to anyone , as a mater of fact you aren't supposed to...it was for you from God, to increase your faith...and not meant for others at that time, see?
40 years is a long time, and like you said.... we keep learning.
Try again with your life experience now....only try getting your "self" out of the way.
Shut the fuck up, you brainwashed dolt.
Cottontop3000 said:
At least he has a brain and can contribute more than name calling and insults....oops sorry cottontop3000, Qm? QM? where are u QM?
TheVisitor,
It wasn’t knew. I’ve seen the same argument made many times before.
I have no confusion. I left that behind when I was able to dismiss Christianity for the sham that it is.
And indistinguishable from wishful thinking. Which is more credible?
But unless there is some other evidence of the crime it will not be possible to show the crime occurred. So how would we know the alleged witnes actually witnessed anything or just imagined it.
But more importantly you can’t demonstrate it did happen.
Yes I understand that well. It is basic propaganda used to convince the proponents that their faith has meaning. Examined objectively it remains indistinguishable to self delusion.
Oh, I’ve long since dismissed Christianity as a worthless idea. In my research over these past few decades Christianity has clearly become just a silly notion.
geeser said:
When it's a statement meant to be read as a whole, you may loose the meaning breaking it down, mister geeser...
But I'll give you that if it were done for the right intentions, ...not just to argue or "prove" something wrong, it might help someones' understanding to do so, yes.
because YOU are the witnessCris said:
Maybe, You never had it at the beginning.Cris said:
If it was in your heart, all devils in hell never root it out of there.
How can you be anything but a human being when you was borned a human being?
How can you ever be anything but a Christian if you're borned a Christian?
But to reject the truth, then the devil seals the ear. Faith cometh by what?
And if your ear is sealed, you don't hear it anymore.
"Aw, nonsense. I don't believe in that stuff."
I'm not saying this is your situation, just carefully evaluate what could be happening....
Your life is reflecting something.
You don't want to be influencing people the wrong way, or reflecting the wrong thing.
They say...."the way a tree leans, is the way it falls."
Here's what happens when you hear the word of God....
It's a type of the "jubilee year"
In the end time the wheat are seperated from the tares....He does this with His word.
Now, at the going forth of this jubilee year, it was to be sounded throughout all the land. A trumpet was to sound. And this trumpet would make the distinction... For the trumpet was the fiftieth year sound that led every slave that had been bought, or become poor--poor and could not care for his own...
He had fell beneath the load. And his master for his debt had bought him and had placed him into the field as a slave. And he had to serve him, for he was too poor to redeem himself. But God said, "Remember, you were one time slaves yourself and down in Egypt. And I have freed you.
Therefore, at the sounding of the trumpet, every slave, no matter how long he's been in or how short a time, he's at liberty to return to his family, to return to his people and be free of every debt, for it is a time of jubilee.
You shouldn't trim your vineyard or anything. The poor of the land was to eat of it: a very beautiful type of the millennium.
Notice, every slave, when he heard that trumpet sound, he could throw down his hoe, whatever he's working with and say, "I am a free man. I couldn't redeem myself. But God, through His grace has declared a year of jubilee. Therefore, I believe God. And I don't have to work anymore." And the laws of the land claimed him free. What a beautiful type of today.
If a man said, "I want to stay the way I am. I don't want to go.
I just want to stay right here," that man was taken to the temple with his slave master. He must put his ear against a post, and an awl was bored in his ear. And it was a sign that he could never be free. He had to serve his master as long as he lived, because he rejected the news of the good news.
If that isn't a perfect type of the marking of the beast...
The good news is the Gospel. To reject to hear the Gospel, your ears are sealed up that you'll always call it fanaticism, and there's nothing to it. And you'll be serving sin in forms of godliness as long as you live. No matter how religious you are, you're sealed off from the Presence of God.
Yes, the churches are wrong...don't blame God for that.
He said it would be that way.
Revelations the 17th chapter said that the Catholic church was a whore and the Protestant churches was prostitutes.
But God's people was the called out of that, of the whole thing.
"Come out of Babylon." said the last warning angel's message. "Be not partakers of her sins. Come out." Separate yourself and be different, not from just a logical standpoint, not because you think it's right to do, but pray until that thing's in your heart.
It's a type of the "jubilee year"
In the end time the wheat are seperated from the tares....He does this with His word.
Now, at the going forth of this jubilee year, it was to be sounded throughout all the land. A trumpet was to sound. And this trumpet would make the distinction... For the trumpet was the fiftieth year sound that led every slave that had been bought, or become poor--poor and could not care for his own...
He had fell beneath the load. And his master for his debt had bought him and had placed him into the field as a slave. And he had to serve him, for he was too poor to redeem himself. But God said, "Remember, you were one time slaves yourself and down in Egypt. And I have freed you.
Therefore, at the sounding of the trumpet, every slave, no matter how long he's been in or how short a time, he's at liberty to return to his family, to return to his people and be free of every debt, for it is a time of jubilee.
You shouldn't trim your vineyard or anything. The poor of the land was to eat of it: a very beautiful type of the millennium.
Notice, every slave, when he heard that trumpet sound, he could throw down his hoe, whatever he's working with and say, "I am a free man. I couldn't redeem myself. But God, through His grace has declared a year of jubilee. Therefore, I believe God. And I don't have to work anymore." And the laws of the land claimed him free. What a beautiful type of today.
If a man said, "I want to stay the way I am. I don't want to go.
I just want to stay right here," that man was taken to the temple with his slave master. He must put his ear against a post, and an awl was bored in his ear. And it was a sign that he could never be free. He had to serve his master as long as he lived, because he rejected the news of the good news.
If that isn't a perfect type of the marking of the beast...
The good news is the Gospel. To reject to hear the Gospel, your ears are sealed up that you'll always call it fanaticism, and there's nothing to it. And you'll be serving sin in forms of godliness as long as you live. No matter how religious you are, you're sealed off from the Presence of God.
Yes, the churches are wrong...don't blame God for that.
He said it would be that way.
Revelations the 17th chapter said that the Catholic church was a whore and the Protestant churches was prostitutes.
But God's people was the called out of that, of the whole thing.
"Come out of Babylon." said the last warning angel's message. "Be not partakers of her sins. Come out." Separate yourself and be different, not from just a logical standpoint, not because you think it's right to do, but pray until that thing's in your heart.
Last edited:
godless said:
i mean that is the definition of god. creator.
ok, but in order to know what created your body you have to ask what created your parents.
it's like saying that gravity 'causes' things to fall on the ground, it's not the whole truth cuz it doesn't say what causes gravity.
what created nature?
Arete, this part of what Adstar said is very important.
This is a commonality between all 'believers' who find 'God'. They seek a relationship to fill some void. The relationship they discover is beyond fulfilling and they attribute it to a fantasy charcter without realizing the relationship is with their own ego. A few of these folks can have really intense relationships with their ego's and can alter the blood flow and thusly the electrical activity in their brain. The area that gets affected more often than not is their sense of self (i.e. the ability to distinguish between self and other). Hallucination tends to also result at this point and these folks effectively have an intense relationship with everything for small periods of time with some euphoric hallucination. Its a real physical cycle of positive reinforcement which is utterly misunderstood and mis-attributed to a fantasy life form.
Adstar said:
This is a commonality between all 'believers' who find 'God'. They seek a relationship to fill some void. The relationship they discover is beyond fulfilling and they attribute it to a fantasy charcter without realizing the relationship is with their own ego. A few of these folks can have really intense relationships with their ego's and can alter the blood flow and thusly the electrical activity in their brain. The area that gets affected more often than not is their sense of self (i.e. the ability to distinguish between self and other). Hallucination tends to also result at this point and these folks effectively have an intense relationship with everything for small periods of time with some euphoric hallucination. Its a real physical cycle of positive reinforcement which is utterly misunderstood and mis-attributed to a fantasy life form.
Crunchy Cat said:
Not even close crunchy.....
HEBREWS 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
God knows not only what your thinking, but eveything you've done,, what's in your heart and what you plan to do...and he can reveal it to those servants of His with the gift of discernment.
Ever see that happen...? it ain't some euphoric hallucination.
Last edited:
TheVisitor said:
I would say its so close its scary. I think a brushup on the results of transcranial magnetic stimulation need to viewed. The intense euphoria of loosing one's sense of self can be replicated in a lab bud.
TheVisitor said:
Preaching is not evidence.
TheVisitor said:
Nobody has ever nor will ever see that happen because the subject of the whole thing, 'God', doesn't exist.