I don't understand why somone had to be brutally murdered for people to be saved. If god wanted to forgive your sins couldn't he just forgive them. It seems like a setup to me, like good-cop bad-cop. God is all unreasonable and shit and then jesus comes in and says "hey, don't worry i'm on your side, just sign the confession and I'll make sure you don't do any time."
How did Jesus save us?
- Thread starter nds1
- Start date
Cool..
Here's the quick version just for fun:god being has lived forever and ever. He gets bored "halfway through eternity", (an impossibility but nevermind), and makes a couple of humans, lots of trees, animals and the only talking snake in the known universe. Snake teaches mankind morals, god being gets pissed off, curses the humans and the only talking snake in the known universe. People work together, (babel), god being gets pissed off and confuses them. Hitler dislikes jews and kills a few million, god hates them more and kills them all.
god being frees jews from slavery, jews would rather be back in slavery than with god. god hands down laws, people don't like this god very much so decide to worship a cow instead. god kills some more people. And some more..
god fucks a human, has mini-god. god gets man to kill mini-god which somehow means man is now forgiven for sin. mini-god walks again only to tell people that his father plans to annihilate everyone and destroy the cosmos. Eventually the dead rise and an elite few get to live in a city of gold and rubies while fortune tellers and dogs are forced to remain outside.
A truly awesome story if ever there was one.
Jesus dieing for our sins was just a bit of spin. It's emotive, so it works.
What's the big deal with jesus dying for our sins? How was that so-called sacrifice anything more or less than any parent giving their life to save a child or even a stranger? In fact, jesus knew he was going to heaven right? He was just going home. The rest of us don't have that certainty. Our sacrifices are much more genuine than his.
Note: I don't even believe this jesus person existed. Makes for an interesting myth though.
Note: I don't even believe this jesus person existed. Makes for an interesting myth though.
Good and interesting point. Also, if it was impossible for Jesus to sin, then this further takes away from the signifigance of his life and death.
First of all, you have to show proof that jesus even existed in the first place, since there is no evidence that this character existed, and he is not the only demi-g0d to have supposedly existed, how the hell we know wether he knew he was going to "heaven?" or was satan or scoundrel?
My guess would be that Paul was similar to Joseph Smith. A charismatic, half-crazy con-man.
Your "guess," well there you have it.
T
Turtle
Guest
He didn't, it was a plan of God for you to believe in something you have no idea.
*************
M*W: Oh, please! You people make me sick! There is no "god," and there is no "savior." Get a life, all of you!
M*W: Oh, please! You people make me sick! There is no "god," and there is no "savior." Get a life, all of you!
People, people...
Don't derail Jesus and God in this thread because you can do it in another. The question specifically deals with Jesus' sacrifice with a few Biblical assumptions.
Since you're an active member Medicine Woman, I hate to say anything, but seriously! What's the point in saying "Get a life" when someone sincerely asks a question?
Don't derail Jesus and God in this thread because you can do it in another. The question specifically deals with Jesus' sacrifice with a few Biblical assumptions.
Since you're an active member Medicine Woman, I hate to say anything, but seriously! What's the point in saying "Get a life" when someone sincerely asks a question?
*************
M*W: Prove to me that Jesus existed, then we can discuss whether Jesus was sacrificed for humanity.
BTW, basing one's perceived existence or sacrifice on "assumptions" is incredibly stupid.
No one here could "derail Jesus" anymore than we could "derail" Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn. The story (i.e. the assumptions) is what derails Jesus.
Greetings,
Really?
What did his death do to save me exactly?
That's the point - it makes NO SENSE.
And, when asked to explain what "died for you" means - all you can do is bleat "he died for you" AGAIN.
You can't explain it.
Because it can't be explained.
Because it's nonsense.
Iasion
Really?
What did his death do to save me exactly?
That's the point - it makes NO SENSE.
And, when asked to explain what "died for you" means - all you can do is bleat "he died for you" AGAIN.
You can't explain it.
Because it can't be explained.
Because it's nonsense.
Iasion
GReetings,
Rubbish.
If it was proven, everyone would agree.
But they DON'T.
Only faithful Christians agree with all that.
Clear evidence that it's a merely a faithful belief of Christians.
Iasion
Rubbish.
If it was proven, everyone would agree.
But they DON'T.
Only faithful Christians agree with all that.
Clear evidence that it's a merely a faithful belief of Christians.
Iasion
Greetings,
Really?
Such as Krishna ?
Osiris?
Odysseus?
Hercules?
Attis?
Dionysus?
James Bond?
Bilbo Baggins?
Harry Potter?
Do you think they are based in treality?
Iasion
Really?
Such as Krishna ?
Osiris?
Odysseus?
Hercules?
Attis?
Dionysus?
James Bond?
Bilbo Baggins?
Harry Potter?
Do you think they are based in treality?
Iasion
Greetings,
Indeed.
And when we check the NT stories - we find they have the characteristics of fiction and myth.
The Gospels are religious mythology.
Iasion
Indeed.
And when we check the NT stories - we find they have the characteristics of fiction and myth.
The Gospels are religious mythology.
Iasion
Greetings,
Ah, the old DATE argument - how silly.
Well,
our months are named after old Roman Gods - e.g. the month of June is named after Juno.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument - Juno is real.
Our days are named after old Gods too - e.g. Thursday is named after Thor.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument - Thor is real.
It should be clear that your argument is nonsense.
So you faithful keep saying.
But,
you can't provide any historical evidence.
Just preaching from your holy book.
Go visit India.
See the effect that Krishna had.
Therefore Krishna is real.
Go visit Greece.
See the effect that Odysseus had.
Therefore Odysseus is real.
Go visit Egypt.
See the effect that Osiris had.
Therefore Osiris is real.
Your argument is total nonsense.
It amounts to claiming that :
"if people believe it, then it must be true"
(except OTHER beliefs, which are not true.)
Do you believe in Krishna?
No.
Do you believe in Osiris?
No.
Do you believe in Odysseus?
No.
But you believe in Jesus...
Why?
They are just the same type of legendary religious stories which the same amount of historical evidence.
None.
Iasion
Ah, the old DATE argument - how silly.
Well,
our months are named after old Roman Gods - e.g. the month of June is named after Juno.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument - Juno is real.
Our days are named after old Gods too - e.g. Thursday is named after Thor.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument - Thor is real.
It should be clear that your argument is nonsense.
So you faithful keep saying.
But,
you can't provide any historical evidence.
Just preaching from your holy book.
Go visit India.
See the effect that Krishna had.
Therefore Krishna is real.
Go visit Greece.
See the effect that Odysseus had.
Therefore Odysseus is real.
Go visit Egypt.
See the effect that Osiris had.
Therefore Osiris is real.
Your argument is total nonsense.
It amounts to claiming that :
"if people believe it, then it must be true"
(except OTHER beliefs, which are not true.)
Do you believe in Krishna?
No.
Do you believe in Osiris?
No.
Do you believe in Odysseus?
No.
But you believe in Jesus...
Why?
They are just the same type of legendary religious stories which the same amount of historical evidence.
None.
Iasion
Greetings,
If you had a way to prove Krishna was a myth...
You don't.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Krishna and his miracles were real.
If you had a way to prove Osiris was a myth...
You don't.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Osiris and his miracles were real.
Your argument is backwards.
If YOU claim Jesus existed, then YOU must provide the evidence.
But all we get from the faithful is more PREACHING.
Over and over,
on and on and on,
ad nauseum...
But never any HISTORICAL EVIDENCE.
Because there is NONE.
Jesus is a myth.
Iasion
If you had a way to prove Krishna was a myth...
You don't.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Krishna and his miracles were real.
If you had a way to prove Osiris was a myth...
You don't.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Osiris and his miracles were real.
Your argument is backwards.
If YOU claim Jesus existed, then YOU must provide the evidence.
But all we get from the faithful is more PREACHING.
Over and over,
on and on and on,
ad nauseum...
But never any HISTORICAL EVIDENCE.
Because there is NONE.
Jesus is a myth.
Iasion
Greetings,
According to legends ...
So the estimated, speculated date of Krishna varies by over a 1000 years. Some sources say he was born 3228 BCE.
Our sources are from 1000s of years later.
Do you really believe Krishna existed?
Iasion
According to legends ...
So the estimated, speculated date of Krishna varies by over a 1000 years. Some sources say he was born 3228 BCE.
Our sources are from 1000s of years later.
Do you really believe Krishna existed?
Iasion