How did Jesus save us?
- Thread starter nds1
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But if God was the Father of Jesus, then God's spirit rested within Jesus, therefore Jesus was born without sin.
Oh... well that proves it then.
I don't see how atheists will ever be able to argue with that!
Is is too hard for God to forgive an ancient sin by eve & adam? God should not have such a grudge against A&E and their progenies. Jesus should tell his father, 'Look dad, Grow up. Either forgive or destroy. It is sickening to witness your dark side. And these human wrecks frighten me to death already'.
Who cares?
Mythical or not, Christianity should be able to provide a logical reason as to why the life and death of Jesus saved us. In one response, I read that because of Jesus's life and death, mankind has been "redeemed," and not automatically "saved." So this means that the only way God was going to forgive mankind (for supposedly Adam and Eve's Sin) is if Jesus lived a sinless life? First off, according to the bible it's not any of our faults that we are sinners to begin with. It's Adam and Eve's fault. So God is essentially forgiving us and "redeeming" us for something we didn't even do through Jesus?
Secondly, many Christians state that Jesus is in the holy trinity, and is basically God himself. So no kidding he wasn't going to sin as a man because God/Jesus is obviously far more skilled than we are at not sinning, and I guarentee you no normal man will ever even come close to Jesus on the sin scale. So really the idea that God came down as man and showed off his superior ability to "not sin" doesn't show how he saved or "redeemed" anyone. I can't see how God was impressed with what Jesus did in liveing a sinless life, because Jesus was basically God. Now if a normal human lived a sinless life, that would a cause for redeeming mankind.
Also, in one response it is noted that because of Jesus, now heaven is opened back up to us. So does this mean classic biblical figures such as Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, etc. could not enter heaven because Jesus hadn't yet died for their sins? Also, it seems unfair that all the "old testament" crew had to do was believe in a God, which is sometimes a difficult task in itself. But now Christians not only have to believe in a God, but they also must believe in another far-fetched 2 century old story of Jesus as well? And if they don't they go to hell. That doesnt seem fair to me.
Secondly, many Christians state that Jesus is in the holy trinity, and is basically God himself. So no kidding he wasn't going to sin as a man because God/Jesus is obviously far more skilled than we are at not sinning, and I guarentee you no normal man will ever even come close to Jesus on the sin scale. So really the idea that God came down as man and showed off his superior ability to "not sin" doesn't show how he saved or "redeemed" anyone. I can't see how God was impressed with what Jesus did in liveing a sinless life, because Jesus was basically God. Now if a normal human lived a sinless life, that would a cause for redeeming mankind.
Also, in one response it is noted that because of Jesus, now heaven is opened back up to us. So does this mean classic biblical figures such as Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, etc. could not enter heaven because Jesus hadn't yet died for their sins? Also, it seems unfair that all the "old testament" crew had to do was believe in a God, which is sometimes a difficult task in itself. But now Christians not only have to believe in a God, but they also must believe in another far-fetched 2 century old story of Jesus as well? And if they don't they go to hell. That doesnt seem fair to me.
Just one of many morbid tales of death that proliferate thru the bible. I just don't understand the width and breadth of violence that permeates the entire tome. Kill, kill, kill seems to be the underlying theme even to the point of killing for love and forgiveness. It's absolutely insane. Even their god is killing eveything in sight, including his son.
Should Bible reading have a disclaimer like Parental Guidance or Restricted for adults only?
Should Bible reading have a disclaimer like Parental Guidance or Restricted for adults only?
The spiritual part of the saving has to do with realizing you are part of a whole, and it's capable of great joy, which manifests as love, which was Jesus' motivation for not evading the Romans and becoming another rebel outlaw. His love for humanity (as well as life in general) was such that he could not help but demonstrate his non-violent ways (never mind that money-changer incident), resulting in his life being taken like a common criminal.
All the superstitious stuff about rising from the dead came from Mary Magdelene's visions of Jesus, probably as a result of directly percieving the teaching from his powerful example.
All the superstitious stuff about rising from the dead came from Mary Magdelene's visions of Jesus, probably as a result of directly percieving the teaching from his powerful example.
I don't think blind belief was ever the intention. Like Aesop's fables, their message can be revelent to you wether or not the incident actually happed exactly that way.
No actually it is testable, so not a fallacy. If You take a test sample of authors of fiction you will find that a high degree of them were inspired by and extrapolated supernatural additions to real events.
Idea X is popular.
Therefore, X is correct.
logical fallacy
"Appeal to Popularity"
Celebrity W endorses X (or Candidate Y, or Cause Z).
Therefore, X (or Candidate Y, or Cause Z) is right.
logical fallacy
"Appeal to Celebrity"
Authority X believes that Y is true.
Therefore, Y is true.
logical fallacy
"Appeal to Authority"
Yeah sorry youre right.
If You take a test sample of authors of fiction you will find that a high degree of them were inspired by real events. If You take a test sample of authors of fiction you will find that a high degree of them were extrapolating supernatural additions to real events.
Firstly dont try to teach me logic dumbass.
Secondly where have I said the Jesus story is right? I just said the man of which the story is based on could well have existed.
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Alexander the Great, was great, but not great enough to influence calendar systems to revolve around his birth/death. He proceeded Jesus by 300 yrs and his stomping ground was much more extensive than palestine.
Jesus as an actual person, existing, isn't hard to accept unless you have some super-natural disposition to hate jesus, and the very idea thereof.(exceeding that which is natural i.e. posting about how jesus is fake some 100 times over, never fainting, anti-jesus links ready to Ctrl + paste to everythread, etc.)
go ahead argue divinity of Jesus, this would seem more worthy of your time. But to say he never existed?? that's completely lol.
To the extent that many of you who have convinced yourself that JESUS NEVER EXISTED, must exalt yourselves upon an altar of having some arcane knowledge that isn't obvious to your fellow humans...
Go visit bethlehem, go to the galilee, and nazareth. Even Jerusalem. It's not hard to see the effect Jesus had on the communities, people, culture, and idea itself.
Jesus as an actual person, existing, isn't hard to accept unless you have some super-natural disposition to hate jesus, and the very idea thereof.(exceeding that which is natural i.e. posting about how jesus is fake some 100 times over, never fainting, anti-jesus links ready to Ctrl + paste to everythread, etc.)
go ahead argue divinity of Jesus, this would seem more worthy of your time. But to say he never existed?? that's completely lol.
To the extent that many of you who have convinced yourself that JESUS NEVER EXISTED, must exalt yourselves upon an altar of having some arcane knowledge that isn't obvious to your fellow humans...
Go visit bethlehem, go to the galilee, and nazareth. Even Jerusalem. It's not hard to see the effect Jesus had on the communities, people, culture, and idea itself.