How can unbelievers come to believe in God?

I think it requires two things.

First an experience beyond the everyday normal. This is rather more common than generally supposed but is normally kept quiet to avoid embarrassment. Examples include Mendeleyev falling asleep wondering about the elements and waking with the full periodic table in his mind, Crick getting the idea of the double helix for DNA whilst he was stoned on LSD and Einstein having a dream about a waterfall which led to Relativity Theory. I know of somebody who acquired an overwhelming feeling of happiness whilst praying and has subsequently been ordained as a result.

Secondly it requires, as a result of the former, to have, or to acquire, a belief in one of the many fairytales invented by various Homo Sapiens to explain these experiences. You will note that the monotheistic religions immediately hijack these experiences and claim them for their own.

In years gone by and indeed in some places still, a village would have its own specialist in halucinatory substances and if you needed help you went to him. If in another place you used their local man. He would endeavour to make contact with his 'aspect' of this superior intelligence and assist you if he could.

It's a system that served, among others, the Egyptians well for thousands of years. We have come along with our 'modern', 'superior', condescending ideas and murdered millions.
 
Enmos said:
What would have to happen to make him/her believe in God?
The only reason people don't believe in God is that they have no reason to believe in God.
So how do theists expect them to find faith?
Click to expand...
Well, some people seem to have sudden conversion experiences, even from atheism and/or disinterest. But other than that it would probably take investment in a particular religion and its practices. But this would be silly if such a person had no interest. So I can't see where a theist could expect someone to pursue something they were not interested. Many do, but I can't see it.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
The conclusion to your premise is, therefore, that the atheist must become irrational in order to abandon his reasoned position.
Click to expand...
So a curious atheist who in the spirit of exploratory empiricism tried the practices of, say, Kashmir Shaivism, to see what would happen, would be being irrational?

The most common reason for abandoning rationality is, in my observation, grief. Bereaved people are notorious for becoming unreasonable.
Click to expand...
That's not my experience. And I am not sure where an adjective like 'notorious' fits in here.


Here in the Western world, the most profound grief likely to touch the average citizen is the death of a child.

So look for an atheist whose six year-old child was just killed by a tornado, an auto accident, a drive-by shooting, an exotic pathogen, etc. Tell him that if he puts his faith in a god whom he has always regarded as imaginary, he will one day see that child again, alive and well and happy and waiting for him in heaven.

I have no children but over the course of my life I've had to endure the death of more than ten beloved dogs. I don't for a second equate that with the loss of a child, but nonetheless in my life it's been a lot of grief. Apparently the religionists don't really want me, because they consistently tell me that if against all odds I find my way to heaven, my dogs won't be there because they have no "souls."
Click to expand...
Perhaps there are religions you are not considering in this estimation of your rejection by religions as a whole.

Instead, my hateful parents will be waiting for me. Theists really need to work on their marketing skills.
Click to expand...
see above.
 
Itseemstome said:
I think it requires two things.

First an experience beyond the everyday normal. This is rather more common than generally supposed but is normally kept quiet to avoid embarrassment. Examples include Mendeleyev falling asleep wondering about the elements and waking with the full periodic table in his mind, Crick getting the idea of the double helix for DNA whilst he was stoned on LSD and Einstein having a dream about a waterfall which led to Relativity Theory. I know of somebody who acquired an overwhelming feeling of happiness whilst praying and has subsequently been ordained as a result.

Secondly it requires, as a result of the former, to have, or to acquire, a belief in one of the many fairytales invented by various Homo Sapiens to explain these experiences. You will note that the monotheistic religions immediately hijack these experiences and claim them for their own.

In years gone by and indeed in some places still, a village would have its own specialist in halucinatory substances and if you needed help you went to him. If in another place you used their local man. He would endeavour to make contact with his 'aspect' of this superior intelligence and assist you if he could.

It's a system that served, among others, the Egyptians well for thousands of years. We have come along with our 'modern', 'superior', condescending ideas and murdered millions.
Click to expand...
Is this for real? They got their subconscious to work these things out. Did they have an explanation for it? For that is what I want to know. It has happened to me as well.

It is the depth of concern, that does it. You get so bamboozled by the problem you mutter under your breath "God! what the F*^k is the answer?" That night you will get the answer in a dream. But you have to have asked the question the right way first!
:)
 
Robittybob1 said:
Thank God for Lori_7. Can you read what she writes and not realise you are being conversed by an Angel? So much wisdom and genuine compassion; don't you sense it too?
Click to expand...

Especially when she went on fuck-you-all tirades ... :rolleyes:
 
The formation of memory in the human brain is assisted by aspects of the limbic system. The limbic system is also responsible for emotions and feelings. As such, our strongest memories which store the most data the longest tend to have a strong emotional feeling. A marriage might be a time of strong emotion thereby engraining the memory strongly.

The value of this is the brain is able to store memory in layers based on particular emotional/feelings attached to memory. If we feel hungry, images of food appear in the mind, not poetry, due to the emotional association layer. This allows us to use the entire brain while also being focused to the task at hand.

Say we have a situation of mixed emotions such as love and hate, typically the mind will switch back and forth between layers based on which feeling is active. But say you had the two feeling blend into both at the same time. One result will be blank mindedness, since there may be very little memory with that emotional combination, unless one continues to go there to consciously build this layer.

Getting back to God and faith, faith defines a very specific feeling tone. For those without faith, there may be no memory stored at this potential. To activate this layers it often requires that one have an experience (born again) to know the feeling and then by reproducing the feeling from this memory, the memory builds until it becomes just as real as food or anything else.

There is another consideration, because of the nature of this dual memory storage of feeling/thought, thoughts can induce feelings and feelings can induce thoughts, with feelings connected to specific brain(CSF)/blood chemicals. CSF is cerebral spinal fluid where the chemical are called neurotransmitters. For example, I can think about food and become hungry or I can become hungry first and then start to think about food.

One can think about God and induce a feeling if there is memory storage at that location. Certain brain chemical combinations, built upon other base combinations, can open hidden doors within the brain. These are hidden layers in terms of the conscious mind, but not the unconscious mind. Humility is often important since that dials a certain chemical combo which is added a faith layer. One is dialing a memory layer that is connected to brain firmware. The dynamic experience can be very powerful. Some people seem to do this intuitively without needing to know the layering basis.
 
Pincho Paxton said:
And with a brain you can still be fairly useless if you waste its storage space. :D
Click to expand...
We aren't all going to be Einsteins. Singers always seem dumb to me, yet they do the movements and sing a good song, something I can't do. So I tend to go with the flow and not be too judgemental on these aspects. If the whole world was filled with people just like you and I it wouldn't function.
Everyone is suppose to play their part.:)
 
Robittybob1 said:
Is this for real? They got their subconscious to work these things out. Did they have an explanation for it? For that is what I want to know. It has happened to me as well.

It is the depth of concern, that does it. You get so bamboozled by the problem you mutter under your breath "God! what the F*^k is the answer?" That night you will get the answer in a dream. But you have to have asked the question the right way first!
:)
Click to expand...

I certainly believe it's for real. Certain aspects are bound to be wrong, however, for how can a three dimensional being understand a 9 (Gnostic Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth) eleven (String Theory) or whatever dimensional universe? I feel the explanation to be that there is another, in most if not in all ways superior to ourselves, level of intelligence in the universe. It seems to 'come through' when the brain blocks out all the normal, everyday concerns of life.

This can be done in many different ways. Meditation, hypnosis, prayer, repetative action (as in the whirling Dervishes for instance), the consumption of halucinogenics or even getting so annoyed that you forget all else!

It goes some way to explaining, among other things;

Antelopes with bleeding noses on ancient cave drawings
Egyptians gods with ibis or crocodile heads etc
Pharoah's mummies being full of drugs and even, possibly, substances for which we haven't tested because we don't know they exist!!!
Moses burning bush
The caves at Qumran, Jesus was supposedly an expert in various substances
Mohammed entering a cave to commune with his God
Modern shamans claiming to find answers in another reality
The direction of development of modern science
And even the ludicous claim the a high percentage of Americans believe they have been abducted by UFO's.

In fact I would suggest that it explains almost all the facts and peculiarities of modern life. This being the strongest argument that it is correct.
Incidentally, you have very eloquently added a little more to my thoughts on the subject. Thank you.

But, then again, I may be wrong.
 
@ Itseemstome Thank you for thanking me. You must one of the first who has ever thanked me for anything. I try really hard, but on the whole it is a thankless task.:):cool:
 
As Fraggle said, you have to become irrational somehow.

Denial of bad situations can do it. I'm an atheist, but who knows if I'd still be one after seeing my entire community die in a fire.
 
Do aliens exist? Not until the day this question becomes irrelevant.
Does God exist? Not until the day this question becomes irrelevant.
 
decons said:
Do aliens exist? Not until the day this question becomes irrelevant.
Does God exist? Not until the day this question becomes irrelevant.
Click to expand...
It is a matter of personal proof then is it? For if I say "yes they do exist" you still won't believe me but I don't have the power to direct the aliens to go to your place. Just in case they are reading this thread, what is you address?:eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top