davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Okay, so why do you think it's wrong?
Homosexuality and Religion
- Thread starter Thoreau
- Start date
Okay, so why do you think it's wrong?
How did we ever come to the point of being so gaddamned obsessed with what other consenting adults, family or not, want to do with their "bits"? It amazes me the amount of effort and grief our society goes through to ensure that two people aren't sticking their bits and whatnot where they "shouldn't" be.
What a fucked up society.
What a fucked up society.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Well considering we're talking about incest I thought you would know what I was asking about.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
I don't understand why you saw fit to enter the discussion mentioning incest (making sure I knew God used it) then seemingly you bow out saying you don't care.
Whatever.
I was pointing out to you that it's not really a case of adam or eve having sex with their kids, but their kids having sex amongst each other. That was all.
And I wasn't "bowing out", I was stating my position on incest and other sexual activities and that has not changed anywhere.
And I wasn't "bowing out", I was stating my position on incest and other sexual activities and that has not changed anywhere.
I was the one who brought it up in response to a person stating Adam and Eve, be fruitful, yadda yadda.
They were fruitful because of incest. So homosexuality is bad, incest is not.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Ultimately we're in agreement.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Adam and Eve were fruitful with no sign of incest between them. As SnakeLord pointed out the children must have practised incest.
The bottom line is that the act of homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God whereas He had no problems with incest in the early days, so you're right, you just got your facts wrong regarding Adam and Eve.
This is a Christian perspective.
Adam kept away from his daughters?? :shrug: If you say so.
What have you read in the Bible that suggests God "had no problems" with incest in the early days? What does that even mean exactly? Wouldn't it be more likely that he still considered it to be a sinful act?
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
In the early days He blessed Abrahams marriage to his half sister (The Messiah came into the world through this bloodline).
Genesis 20(Abraham)
11 Abraham replied, "I said to myself, 'There is surely no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.' 12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife. 13 And when God had me wander from my father's household, I said to her, 'This is how you can show your love to me: Everywhere we go, say of me, "He is my brother." ' "
Then at a later date, He enforced rules that ruled out incest.
Lev. 18–20 (Moses)
God also has no apparent problem with having sex with children. So it seems that God's morality is kind of screwed up.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Luke 17
1Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
I believe the question is asking us to ponder to homosexual act of being gay.
Is the act a sin?
technically it appears to be, due to the fact that it is described as abominable. Look up the words 'sin' and 'abominable', then come to a decision.
But i think it is obvious that everyone here is aware of that, including the thread starter. So what is the reasoning behind the question?
That it is descibed as such, doesn't mean that we understand its full implications. I think it can ONLY be fully understood from the perspective of a sin-less person. This was, IMO, opinion the meaning of "let him without sin cast the first stone"
Jan
If Eve is a female form of Adam, and they had sex and had children, then the concept of incest wasn't even born yet. So at what point does incest become a transgression?
Why is it universaly understood that Adam and Eve were the first people on earth, from whom all peoples came?
Could it be that Adam was the first born of a new race, or even species?
There are passages which, in my mind, causes doubt as to they being the progenitors of mankind.
"Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that EVERY ONE that findeth me shall slay me. "
Who is "EVERY ONE"?
"And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. "
Why would he build a CITY?
Just curious
Jan.
Why is it universaly understood that Adam and Eve were the first people on earth, from whom all peoples came?
Could it be that Adam was the first born of a new race, or even species?
There are passages which, in my mind, causes doubt as to they being the progenitors of mankind.
"Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that EVERY ONE that findeth me shall slay me. "
Who is "EVERY ONE"?
"And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. "
Why would he build a CITY?
Just curious
Jan.
The perspective of the sinless person is found by using God's Word. Jesus Christ is The Word of God whether Written or Incarnate...He clearly states (reveals) that loving sexual intercourse between a man and a woman joined together by a lifelong covenant is analogous to His/God's relationship with redeemed mankind...it is, and always has been, a metaphor for this and this is clearly seen by the NT reference to Genesis chapter two.
When understood in this LIGHT, any deviation from this God ordained metaphor is a direct slap in the face of God...a desecration of something very near and dear to His Heart...a selfish pursuit of ones own pleasure at the expense of another whether that be God, ones 'partner' or even oneself...clearly the antithesis of what God meant (and has done) for humanity through Christ.
And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' "
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There might be injunctions against abusing children (although there is no penalty proposed, so I guess it's not as bad as 2 men having consensual sex) but it was common practice for girls of 12 to be married and there was no prohibition for children older than 3 years to be married (and that marriage to be sealed with intercourse).
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M*W: Back in those days sex activity was prevalent every which way and was accepted. Women and children were property to be used and abused. Sexual intercourse between men-men, brothers-sisters, parents-children (usually the father only had this right). In those days, it was no crime to participate sexually in any of these scenarios.
History has shown us that Abraham abused Isaac, but some say Ishmael, who was the first born son, not Isaac. Moses had sexual relations with his many wives, many daughters (although he preferred one of them), with his sisters and brother Semenkhare (Aaron). Their stories were grandly embellished to make them mythical heroes, but if they were real people, they had real lives. The Exodus wasn't an Exodus, it was the way of life for the Abiru shepherds who later became Canaanites who later became the Israelites. Trust me when I say that these ancient sex addicts knew a female goat or two (in the bibilical way, of course)! That was the customs of the day. The Hebrews even required the brother-in-law of a man to marry his widowed wife when his brother died. He might have already had five to ten wives, a few concubines, so what's one more?
People who believe these ancient human beings (if they even were human beings) lived chaste lives and were spiritually pure, I have some ENRON stock you might be interested in.
All the heroes in the bible are myths and were written by those scribes who's job it was to entertain the royal houses. If they were around today, they'd be on strike. Times change, but people don't.
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M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote of the Day:
"Heresy is only another word for freedom of thought." ~ Graham Greene