perhaps a trade then?
Holocaust Remembrance Day
- Thread starter Mr.Spock
- Start date
perhaps a trade then?
:fright:
Well documented? A well-documented case will not be promoted by sanctions and threats, unless you have something to hide that is.
I can name more than one historian and thinker who have come under threat and ban because of them questioning the reality or the figures of the Holocaust, you people immediately badge them as antisemites. In my opinion the question is not whether the holocaust is real or not, the real tragedy is that it formed a pretext for the jews to create their own genocides in more than one place.
Nice logic lets see if its true: Stealing is wrong, its well-documented and the conclusion that stealing is wrong is promoted by sanctions and threats, there forth it is not wrong but a conspiracy.
or
Their a lake that is closed off because the water is more toxic waste then water anymore, its well documented, and trespassing is threatened to be punished by law, their forth they have something to hide, jump in!
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I think the reasoning for some countries to make holocaust denial illegal is not to hide something but rather to keep their people shamed about what they did and keep them from doing it again.
You know well that your examples are far from explanatory.
Hımm, and is it acceptable for the victims of the holocaust to use it for their own illegitimate means (i.e. committing their own genocide)
I'm trying my best to not look at the case with biased eyes. Turkish diplomats and government was among the very few people and countries who helped the jews under Hitler's tyranny (I suppose this news has not made it into the western media). I do not say there was no holocaust/jewish genocide, what I say is its extent is dubious and as long as people are not let to discuss it and submit their own evidences the clouds of doubt and cynicism will keep hovering over the case (maybe this is the ultimate goal btw).
I also believe that the ones who got the most damage from the holocaust after the end of the WWII are people who didn't have anything to do with the case. If the Jews want to punish somebody for their pains let them do it to the Europeans and the Americans, why should others pay the price? The Europeans and Americans are once again being hypocrite. First they closed an eye on the Hitler's deeds and now they close an eye when the Zionists do the same to the Mid-Easterns. They always create discord between the others and save their own arses.
No it is not, but that does not mean the holocaust didn't happen. The jews suffered greatly, they caused suffering today so they must not have suffer greatly before? its illogical, and irrelevantly, people do bad things no matter their history and despite their deeds does not mean they did not have a past that could be pitied.
I would also like to state that the oppression of the Palestinians is not a "genocide", that does not make it any less wrong, its just a completely different thing. If you keep equating it with the holocaust and keep denying the holocaust and keep being racist of the Jews your never going to get the support needed to end the oppression of Palestine.
There are two different things you want to mix by immediately marking me as an antisemite. This is wrong!The first one is that I sincerely question the holocaust because I have spent some time reading some sources (reliable to me) who doubt its reality; and I do not accept any discussion and criticism on the matter being banned, while other similar cases are not referred to as holocaust (like the fate of the american indians in the hands of the Europeans, the case of Algeria, etc.). It seems the term holocaust has turned into a weapon which serves the benefits of certain interest groups.
The second is the case of the Palestinians. I'm not sure how sincerely you care about it but it's good you acknowledge they have sufferings. Now you say the purpose of the holocaust remembrance is to make people stop themselves from letting it happen again, but it is happening everyday in front of us people's very eyes (not only in Palestine, but everywhere in the world) and people keep silent (at best), so then what is the use of a holocaust remembrance? If a tragedy in the past is used not to stop a genocide today, but, to the contrary, it is used as a shield to trigger it, then isn't a holocaust remembrance day just an open sign of hypocracy???
No kidding. I don't see Jews rounding up millions of muslims and torchering them to death. Additionally, while Israel targets military targets and terrorists, muslim terrorists target Israeli civilians. Yes, there's collateral damage sometimes when Israel attacks (usually because muslim terrorists hide among women and children), but it's not collateral damage when radical muslims blow up crowds of Israeli civilians.
Only if the people remembering the Holocaust are doing the same exact thing the Nazis did. Can you name any countries that are rounding up millions of people in death camps right now and torturing them to death because of their race ?
Millions have died in Africa the last decade (under slightly different circumstances), but how many of them were hypocrites for setting aside a day to remember the Holocaust ?
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chuuush,
I did not say your are racist only that your argument is used in conjunction with racism to argue for Palestinian freedom and that this total style of argument is useless for that cause.
Again Palestinian are not being gassed or being worked to death in labor camps, in fact their population is growing, the Palestinians simply lack a functional government, security and reparations from Israel, Palestinians are being denied freedoms, not life. This is not a holocaust, instead it is an apartheid.
Just because something is a hypocracy does not mean we should not remember, sure genocide happens all the time and is generally ignored by governments but many backers of Holocaust Remembrance would rather us not ignore modern genocide.
I did not say your are racist only that your argument is used in conjunction with racism to argue for Palestinian freedom and that this total style of argument is useless for that cause.
Again Palestinian are not being gassed or being worked to death in labor camps, in fact their population is growing, the Palestinians simply lack a functional government, security and reparations from Israel, Palestinians are being denied freedoms, not life. This is not a holocaust, instead it is an apartheid.
Just because something is a hypocracy does not mean we should not remember, sure genocide happens all the time and is generally ignored by governments but many backers of Holocaust Remembrance would rather us not ignore modern genocide.
Keep your Holocaust doubting theories (a.k.a. "freedom of speech") out of this remembrance thread, please.
Re: remembering others who died, remember and commemorate them. Who's stopping you?
Re: communist criminals, I think leftist intellectuals like Chomsky have a nice logical way of denying or ignoring the tens of millions who died. There are a few methods I can think of (one is to blame the West, another is to blame the burgouis for making things so bad and being the real cause, etc. etc.). They just refuse to take responsibility.
you do know the Israelis hold as heroes people who used the same tactics as the terror groups that attack Israel? In the 30's the jewish terror groups in the region used many of the same tactics including attacking civilians against the British right.
Ones terrorist is another's freedom fighter, but few genocidal murders are another's Heros (I can think of some Japanese exceptions who are enshrined to this day, much to the objection of china and korea).
It is still hypocracy. Murdering people is evil, murdering thousands of people is still more evil, but the most evil is to use your tragedy as an excuse to murder innocent people.
I prefer not to enter another israel-palestine discussion here with you, but it is genocide in my eyes. The fact that you don't care about the palestinians being murdered just because of their religion does not change this reality.
Challenger78
Valued Senior Member
Things aren't usually created for evil intentions, they're used for evil intentions.
The sympathy and the resolution surrounding this day can be used for other things than it's original intention.
Aaah and I said its a hypocrisy, but to be fair Israel is not murdering innocent people, not in any systematic nature that is. Also Israel does not use the holocaust as an excuse but rather as a means to get pity.