Hitler did the right thing.

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GB-GIL Trans-global

Senator Evilcheese, D-Iraq
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He did what he thought was right. Meaning he did what was the most right according to his moral system. Or at least what he did wasn't "wrong" according to his moral system.

I'm saying, it's right to kill Jews if it does not go against your moral code, but it's wrong if it does.

Hitler had some extreme misconceptions about the world (probably, he was a paranoid-schizophrenic) which he incorporated into his moral system. This doesn't make him "wrong" in what he did.

I'm not saying I would encourage killing Jews (of which I am one).

Just that sometimes, genocide is the right thing to do.
 
People who reply that I am racist and seriously believe this have limited mental capacities. Seriously.

You have to be able to think outside the box to understand what I'm saying here.

If you can't, you'll think I'm a racist, or if you're a "racist", then you'll think that I've got the right idea.
 
GB, you're a Jew? One of the earliest posts I viewed when I stumbled upon Sciforums was your Arafat-Under-Siege thread and from your posts I would have never guessed you for a Jew. I'm probably revealing my ignorance more than anything but this is really an eye-opener for me.

As for this thread, I think I will have a hard time agreeing because to me, genocide means systematically killing people (including innocents) for reasons other than self-defence. This, I think I cannot accept. Unless I am willing to be on the receiving end if the situation were reversed, then I cannot reconcile myself to do this to another person.
 
Originally posted by aseedrain
GB, you're a Jew? One of the earliest posts I viewed when I stumbled upon Sciforums was your Arafat-Under-Siege thread and from your posts I would have never guessed you for a Jew. I'm probably revealing my ignorance more than anything but this is really an eye-opener for me.

As for this thread, I think I will have a hard time agreeing because to me, genocide means systematically killing people (including innocents) for reasons other than self-defence. This, I think I cannot accept. Unless I am willing to be on the receiving end if the situation were reversed, then I cannot reconcile myself to do this to another person.
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Most Arabs believe (and with good reason) that all pro-Israelis are Jews, and all Jews are pro-Israeli.

Not the case, there are the few Jews who hate Israel.

But then again, I'm not a follower of the Jewish religion, it's just my "ethnic background", as most people would put it.
 
Originally posted by aseedrain
Unless I am willing to be on the receiving end if the situation were reversed, then I cannot reconcile myself to do this to another person.
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The thread is not about whether you are willing to do it or not, but rather if it is the right thing to do or not.

I don't mean to be rude or blunt in what I just said, I just wanted to be concise.
 
Scary scary

I think it's ironic that as familiar as the device you're describing actually is, the way you've dressed it up with the Hitler argument tends to freak people out.

Like so many things, a principle is okay until taken to the extreme. Technically, it's no different than you or me. Just a lot bigger and much more severe.

Scary, indeed.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Maybe I should have elaborated a little more. Whether it is right or not depends on whether "I can do onto others what I want others to do onto me" (lousy phrasing, I know). Since my answer is no, therefore by extension, in my opinion, genocide is not right.

However, since this thread ties the matter of right and wrong to a person's moral system, doesn't it mean the question of right and wrong becomes as subjective as a person's moral system, assuming there is no common moral system to speak of?

Or maybe I didn't quite grasp what you were really asking (my apology if so).

Incidentally, I am interested to know what moral system do you think Hitler could have had that in his mind, his genocide was not evil but a justified action.
 
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Moral "code" doesn't account for morality. Doing something that's evil and being able to justify it doesn't make it less evil. By your logic, you could do and feel good about anything, and it would never be wrong, as long as you believed you were right. And come on. That's ridiculous.
 
With Hitler, the bad far outweighted the good.

Hitler did do things that were good for his country. They are forgotten and what he did bad is what is remembered.

He consilidated the German languages into one common national language. He instutited a common written language. He was responcible for the rail system that is in use today.

When compared to the starting of WWI and the death camps you never hear of the few good things he did for his people.
 
gb

how many times have you done something that you know was wrong but did it anyway? why do you presume to know the inner workings of hitlers mind?
do you know for a fact he was mentally ill?
 
can you please explain why and how you might have come to the misguided conclusion that genocide is a good thing??? we need the "imperfect" as well as the "perfect" in this world.. to balance things out a bit and put things into their proper perspectives..and, yeah..that includes human-beings...

think about it...without the "imperfections" in life...how would we ever being to value and appreciate even more so the "perfections".. in otherwords...if we all walked around being perfect 10's...no, wait...perfect 20's...well, what a boring world that would be. and, consider if each of us looked so similarly alike physically that we would end up looking more like each other's brothers and sisters instead of potential mates... who would end up being attracted to that? :bugeye:
 
can you please explain why and how you might have come to the misguided conclusion that genocide is a good thing??? we need the "imperfect" as well as the "perfect" in this world.. to balance things out a bit and put things into their proper perspectives..and, yeah..that includes human-beings...

In Hitlers mind it was the right thing to do. Genocide made perfect sense to him.

think about it...without the "imperfections" in life...how would we ever being to value and appreciate even more so the "perfections".. in otherwords...if we all walked around being perfect 10's...no, wait...perfect 20's...well, what a boring world that would be. and, consider if each of us looked so similarly alike physically that we would end up looking more like each other's brothers and sisters instead of potential mates... who would end up being attracted to that?

Actually its been proven that women are more attracted to guys that remind them of their fathers. For guys it was something like if you had a sister then you would be more attracted to a girl that looked like your sister, not just like her but same hair color, skin tone, or maybe they just sound alike.
 
Does anyone have Hitler's diaries or writings? Or are we just using our logic to pretend we know what he was thinking.

but seriously....have we found any of his writings? anyone have some links we could take a look at?

edit: I found something interesting
He believed that Jesus of Nazareth was an Aryan, not a Jew, and that Jesus fought the Jews and was killed by them. He believed in life after death, the supreme being, and universal creation. He opposed the Catholic church only because its seat of power was in Rome, not Berlin. He was intolerant of competing versions of Christianity (an approach lifted directly from the Catholic playbook), but at no time did he ever commit acts or express beliefs which were not expressed by other Christians before him such as Martin Luther (as well as certain Christians after him, right up to this day. The mere fact that the Lutherans refuse to change their name is very revealing; if there was a Hitlerian church, don't you think it would have changed its name?).
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source: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Creationism/Essays/Hitler.shtml
 
i think we are using assumptions...not logic, dear GrazzH. and, yeah...that was a good point. are we???

but, sidenote...i am not, in any ways, shape or means attracted to my father, not even on a subconscious level. so, don't go there. :D
 
Originally posted by Walker
Moral "code" doesn't account for morality.

People who do something that they think is the right thing to do are doing the right thing.

Doing something that's evil and being able to justify it doesn't make it less evil.

Define "evil".

By your logic, you could do and feel good about anything, and it would never be wrong, as long as you believed you were right. And come on. That's ridiculous.

Ah, but alas, one must truly feel that they are not doing something wrong, this is not about pretending to justify your actions for yourself.

If you truly believed that what you did was the right thing (or at the very least not the wrong thing) to do, then that is what it is.

But if you just tell yourself, "This was the right thing to do", even though you think it is not the right thing to do, then this does not apply.

My point in the responce to "By your logic..." is this:

This only applies when you truly believe it is this way.
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With Hitler, the bad far outweighted the good.

Hitler did do things that were good for his country. They are forgotten and what he did bad is what is remembered.

Define "bad" and "good".

He consilidated the German languages into one common national language. He instutited a common written language. He was responcible for the rail system that is in use today.

When compared to the starting of WWI and the death camps you never hear of the few good things he did for his people.

So what? If he truly thought what he did was the right thing to do, than it was.
 
how many times have you done something that you know was wrong but did it anyway?

I never said that everything everybody does is right. It is only right if they truly believe it is.

why do you presume to know the inner workings of hitlers mind?

Because of his writings, and his public face. He may have had some ulterior motive that to this day we do not know, but most likely, he thought killing Jews was the right thing to do because they were a danger to the world (his view of "the Jews" almost exactly matches what is said in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion), or more specifically, the Aryan world.

While this may not really be true, we're pretty sure it is, and that he did think this was the right thing to do.

do you know for a fact he was mentally ill?

No. But with his very, very biazzare view of different cultures/ethnic groups/religions, I think it is safe to assume that he was a paranoid-schizophrenic, or that he was raised by one who taught him this stuff.
 
Originally posted by pumpkinsaren'torange
can you please explain why and how you might have come to the misguided conclusion that genocide is a good thing???
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Where the fuck did I say that genocide is a good thing? Read my second post in this thread 350 times, and then read my first post, 10 times, very, very, very slowly. Then respond again.

I said that genocide is the right thing to do if the perpetrator truly believes it is.
 
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