Here you go...

[Pipes75]

While you seem quite enthusiastic, nothing you said seemed particularly true or actual. Instead it seemed to be mainly justifications for protecting certain emotional states from closer scrutiny.

Once your mind is open, you'll know what you need.
I use a much larger portion of my brain then the 'normal' close minded population. If that's perceived as a mental issue in your eyes, oh well, that doesn't affect me in the slightest.
I took a hell of a ride that damn near killed me before I opened my mind, but I'm glad I took the ride, because what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

I am more self aware then I knew was possible, I am worry free, I have a new found confidence, and I know what I need to know.

I am glad to be free - and if others don't want to be free, well so be it - enjoy wasting your heaven.

 

[(Q)]

Once your mind is open, you'll know what you need.

A lobotomy?

I use a much larger portion of my brain then the 'normal' close minded population. If that's perceived as a mental issue in your eyes, oh well, that doesn't affect me in the slightest.

"Mental issues" don't appear to be any concern of yours in the slightest.

I took a hell of a ride that damn near killed me before I opened my mind, but I'm glad I took the ride, because what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

Does using larger portions of your brain also increase the use of cliches?

I am more self aware then I knew was possible, I am worry free, I have a new found confidence, and I know what I need to know.

A lobotomy?

I am glad to be free - and if others don't want to be free, well so be it - enjoy wasting your heaven.

I got freedom from a straight jacket and padded cells. What do YOU got?

 

[lightgigantic]

Signal

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
My point was that the only constant element to the calculations are the values that underpin it. For instance, in the name of keeping the crew healthy, the ship operational etc etc, a wide variety of calculations are drawn up on issues that may not draw a consensus (like a disagreement on the weather patterns for instance).

IOw the conflict is resolved at the point of examining value, or what one can set out to achieve within the parameters.
”
Just to be clear: So you hold that the values are relatively stable, and it is not reasonable to expect they will change due to the calculations?

I mean that all the varieties of calculations are drawn from the value - for instance in the name of vessel safety come a variety of precautions and standards ( a variety that more often than not doesn't draw a consensus)

There may be clashes of values between the leaders, the crew etc., though. For example, there may be a conflict as to what is more important: to find new land, or to keep the crew and the ship in good shape.

hence the real discussion is what values serve a greater importance than others.

Arguably that's what henological discourse is within religious variations. IOW you have a hots of practices and the variety that ensues is the individuals estimations of which principles are primary and which are secondary.

But in attempts at spiritual practice, a person may experience such an internal conflict of values as well. For example when they find themselves stuck trying to decide what is more important - having at least some kind of stability in the material life, or risking that stability for an uncertain but worthy seeming goal.

“
hence the notion of god being a conscious magnanimous personality is a cause for recourse
”
To me, this simply seems to be too good to be true ...

only if picture some mundane personality in the role - actually a lot of the headaches come from our moral struggles (so extrapolating our experiences to some cosmic entity simply makes for a portrait of madness)

“
What do you stand to become less of, regarding spiritual practice?
”
I don't know really ...

If I had to describe my mind, it is mostly like a scene from a Spanish Inquisition tribunal - the officers of the inquisition asking those insane double bind questions where no matter what one would answer would be wrong, and the defendant screaming in pain while tortured, admitting to anything and everything, while completely losing any sense of what they actually think or believe. All this in the name of God and holy justice.

And the Spanish Inquisition is not limited to the past, actually, its spirit lives on in the reasoning of many Christian preachers, whether Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox. I have tasted a lot of that spirit. It's as if the only two roles I am capable of imagining for myself is either the inquisitor or the defendant - and I want neither, yet it seems that I can only choose between these two, as far as theism goes.

ACtually that is the quality of the mind - making incredible demands and then making incredible pains when one is obedient to them (hankering to lamentation and back again ....)

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
If you are including omniscience as a solution that leaves you with the problem of how 99% of the worlds population possess it (since most people will make such statements with full conviction and sallying forth with dna tests proves them correct 98% of time)
”
This, in a nutshell, is my neurosis. My default is to think that everyone else is omniscient, except myself.
(Yet in religions, there is the notion that one should consider others to be better than oneself, so it's not like my default would be so outlandish.)

This default leaves me at the mercy of everyone, of whatever they say and do. I feel such an outlook is wrong, and at the same time, I feel it is wrong to resist it.
I wish there would be a way out of this conflict.

sound is the key ... it all begins with the tongue

(even if you wanted to be an adamant atheist, the best recipe would involve hearing about it)

 

[wynn]

I mean that all the varieties of calculations are drawn from the value - for instance in the name of vessel safety come a variety of precautions and standards ( a variety that more often than not doesn't draw a consensus)

Allright.

hence the real discussion is what values serve a greater importance than others.

Arguably that's what henological discourse is within religious variations. IOW you have a hots of practices and the variety that ensues is the individuals estimations of which principles are primary and which are secondary.

So, to give a few examples:
Whether to pursue absolute non-violence (not killing or fighting or in any way harming under any circumstances); or whether to allow some use of physical force.
Whether to give primacy to fulfilling God's plan and considering oneself an insignificant cog in the system; or to pursue a close personal relationship with God (as a friend, parent or lover).
Whether to try to abolish any sense of individuality; or to develop it.
Etc.

- Is this the sense in which you mean discussion about what values serve a greater importance than others?

hence the notion of god being a conscious magnanimous personality is a cause for recourse

To me, this simply seems to be too good to be true ...

only if picture some mundane personality in the role - actually a lot of the headaches come from our moral struggles (so extrapolating our experiences to some cosmic entity simply makes for a portrait of madness)

Actually, I meant it more in the sense of a particular fire-and-brimstone image of God having the supremacy in my mind. I have met Christians who were fiercely opposing the Bhagavad-Gita, claiming Hindus are idol-worshippers, and that God is definitely not some amiable chap.

I have noticed recently that over a year of my attempts at spiritual practice were in a mood of "Oh, I am just doing this thing for myself, but I am wrong anyway, in the end, it is the Christians who are right and I will burn in hell for all eternity."
They would basically say Jehovah is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and K. is simply an idol, a product of the human mind, a wishful fancy, nothing more.
And who am I to disagree with the image of a god who lovingly condemns millions of people to _eternal_ hell ...

In comparison to Jehovah, K. does seem like too good to be true, at least as far as I can see.

ACtually that is the quality of the mind - making incredible demands and then making incredible pains when one is obedient to them (hankering to lamentation and back again ....)

Oh? So it's nothing really personal? It's just like the delusions and hallucinations one might get from food poisoning or drugs or rabies?

sound is the key ... it all begins with the tongue

Well, I have been hearing, and chanting, and speaking ...
I'm not sure it has been particularly effective.

Although it certainly lead me to clearly juxtapose:
"Jehovah is the Supreme Personality of Godhead"
vs.
"K. is the Supreme Personality of Godhead".

It seems like I will now have to decide between the two. And it does feel too big of a decision for me.

(even if you wanted to be an adamant atheist, the best recipe would involve hearing about it)

I don't want to be an atheist, but I do know a thing or two about atheism.

 

[Pipes75]

A lobotomy?



"Mental issues" don't appear to be any concern of yours in the slightest.



Does using larger portions of your brain also increase the use of cliches?



A lobotomy?



I got freedom from a straight jacket and padded cells. What do YOU got?

Your responses verrify how closed minded you really are.

I would never let someone take away part of my brain! A lobotomy doesn't open any minds, it permenantly shuts sections off!

Mental issues, lol - why, cause I use my 'mind's eye'?
I guess since you don't understand it, it doesn't exist for you, lol.
I do hope you wake up one day, but it wouldn't bother me if you don't neither. I don't have time to worry about your misfortune.

Again your doubt doesn't cause any worries in me, I know what I need to, and I'm enjoying every moment. I even enjoy reading close minded posts like yours, it makes me laugh and sad all at the same time, and I love both sides of my emotions .

I know people are afraid of things they don't understand, so I don't know why I bother trying to get through to people with tunnel vision. I just like sharing new knowledge, but I can't control if people want to reject the knowledge, that's your choice, just don't cry to me if you never find your answers.

I've already met more people then I expected that are really open minded, and I don't use the phrase 'open minded' as an opinion about what I'm open to, it's knowledge of something more. - I'm finding lots of open minds in the music industry (my brother in law is in a band, so I've met plenty of local artists of various different genres). That being said, I doubt I'll use this site for free thinking much anymore - I found people I can talk open with in person without any judgement, which is much more rewarding then trying to help those that don't want help.

 

[swarm]

Once your mind is open, you'll know what you need.

I don't think you know what an open mind is. It is not a synonym for complete gullible acceptence of anything offered you know. I am considering what you are offering and so far it is coming up lacking.

I use a much larger portion of my brain then the 'normal' close minded population.

For example that is complete balderdash.

If that's perceived as a mental issue in your eyes, oh well, that doesn't affect me in the slightest.

So why are you talking about it?

I took a hell of a ride that damn near killed me before I opened my mind, but I'm glad I took the ride, because what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

While a nice cliche, it isn't actually true you know.

Again you haven't offered anything of substance.

 

[swarm]

Why bother?

I've had more progressive discussions with alcoholics
:shrug:

More bullshit.

Try again.

 

[lightgigantic]

More bullshit.

Try again.

Actually its about time I said this.

Probably about 85% of the issue of application is about what the participant (ie you, in this case) brings to the show.

I stated whenever you are ready to apply yourself, drop me as line.

Somehow constantly muttering "yer fullashit" doesn't quite cut the grade.
:shrug:

 

[swarm]

Actually its about time I said this.

Probably about 85% of the issue of application is about what the participant (ie you, in this case) brings to the show.

I stated whenever you are ready to apply yourself, drop me as line.

Somehow constantly muttering "yer fullashit" doesn't quite cut the grade.
:shrug:

The line is dropped. Quit making excuses and show what you have.

 

[swarm]

Tsk! The silence is deafening LG.

 

[lightgigantic]

The line is dropped. Quit making excuses and show what you have.

I repeat, 85% of the issue (ie " ... whenever you're ready, drop me a line ...") is not about what I have so much but what you have .... namely a humongous ego issue that impels you to retort "yerfullashit" to anything or some trace of sincerity to begin applying yourself ....

:shrug:

 

[swarm]

I repeat, 85% of the issue (ie " ... whenever you're ready, drop me a line ...") is not about what I have so much but what you have .... namely a humongous ego issue that impels you to retort "yerfullashit" to anything or some trace of sincerity to begin applying yourself ....

:shrug:

More excuses about why you never have to make good on your claims.

Why am I not surprised?

This is your line. It is dropped. Its your turn. Try again.

 

[lightgigantic]

More excuses about why you never have to make good on your claims.

Why am I not surprised?

This is your line. It is dropped. Its your turn. Try again.

but that's the point.

You haven't dropped it.

You are just pretending that you have dropped it so you can get down to your real business of trashing theistic claims.

IOW its not just a line you have to drop since the only thing you appear ready for is more of the same ol anti-theistic spiels that make up the length and breadth of your 4000 and growing posts here

 

[Pipes75]

I don't think you know what an open mind is. It is not a synonym for complete gullible acceptence of anything offered you know. I am considering what you are offering and so far it is coming up lacking.



For example that is complete balderdash.



So why are you talking about it?



While a nice cliche, it isn't actually true you know.

Again you haven't offered anything of substance.

I don't know what an open mind is - lol.
You think I'm guillable, I found my own answers, and none of them came to me because of other people's beliefs!
However, now that I see multiple sides to every story, I try to understand the sides I use to ignore, without judgement.
That doesn't mean I agree with the actions some beliefs can cause, but I try to understand why rather then blaming anything.

So explain to me what you think an open mind is.


You say more 'balderdash', funny, last I checjked you weren't my neurologist.
I have seen a neurologist but before I went to see her, I found out a little background on her. When I knew she meditated and practiced yogo, as well as a little bit of counselling in her background, I agreed to see her.
She was good at making me feel comfortable, and opening up. When I started opening up, I was getting overly excited. She helped me release alot of tension, and taught me some simple techniques to help clear my mind when I got too much thinking going on.
But she did see that my subconscious had more activity then normally observed in someone that is holding a conversation while awake. This increase in activity was her probable cause for my over excitement, and because I was having trouble sleeping at that time, she wanted me to start doing a little more, and thinking a little less - but she did not want me taking pills and numbing my brain just because I liked to dream, I told her I was a dreamer before we started, and she said she loved looking into the minds of dreamers because their minds always had activity in places that still aren't fully understood.

I like talking about everything, I don't like keeping nothing inside. I am not afraid to put all my cards on the table, and I'm not afraid of the things I don't understand. And because I am not worried about nothing anyone says being able to put doubt into me, I have no problem sharing openly. I sometimes do assume too much at times, but I don't judge, I honestly don't care what others believe, I just like sharing my perceptions, and trying to see multiple sides of every situation.

You can say it's a nice cliche, but it's not actually true to you but,

'What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger', is the absolute truth for me. And whether you believe it or not is irrelavent to my truth, but we each have our own variation of what is true to us anyway, so why my truth should effect you is also irrelavent to me. .

Oh, and as for some physical truth to one of my metephores:

The earth is in the perfect place for the kind of life we know of. The Sun provides us with enough warmth and light to stay comfortable in the cold dark space.
If we were too close to the Sun we would burn. If we were too far away we would freeze.
We need both the cold dark space, and the warm bright sun to survive - without space there would be nothing but a blinding bright firey light. Without any stars, there would be nothing but alot of cold space.

The truth is most people only recognize we need the Sun, and don't recognize without the cold dark space, the Sun would blind us and burn us up!

My truth aplies this same philosophy on my life and there after - I am much like the earth, I want to find my perfect warm spot with enough light to see - but I respect the cold dark space that makes my perfect place possible!

 

[swarm]

You haven't dropped it.

It is as dropped as dropped can be. But you won't pick it up.

You are just pretending that you have dropped it so you can get down to your real business of trashing theistic claims.

I guess that is your comfort zone and your fear to leave it.

Try again.

 

[swarm]

I don't know what an open mind is - lol.

It would hardly be surprising. Many people use the term but few ever bother to consider what it might entail. But what do you consider "open minded?"

You think I'm guillable, I found my own answers, and none of them came to me because of other people's beliefs!

This is why I think you are gullible.

However, now that I see multiple sides to every story, I try to understand the sides I use to ignore, without judgement.

Except mine apparently.

So explain to me what you think an open mind is.

An open mind is one willing to consider what it finds or is offerred. Such consideration can result in acceptance or rejection, or somewhere in between.

Blind acceptance is not having an open mind any more than out of hand rejection.

my neurologist.

I'm glad you found some one you like.

 

[lightgigantic]

It is as dropped as dropped can be. But you won't pick it up.

once again my friend, its the nature of a person who is willing to apply themselves that they are the one who do the picking up ...

I guess that is your comfort zone and your fear to leave it.

Try again.

sitting on one's laurels also offers a degree of comfort

 

[Pipes75]

It would hardly be surprising. Many people use the term but few ever bother to consider what it might entail. But what do you consider "open minded?"

An open mind involves a physical change to the way one thinks.
For many they need to rise from a crash or come back from 'flying' too high, and sometimes you need to feel both extremes before the eye of the mind opens. What many perceive as nervous breakdowns can also bring epiphanies when we accept the overwhelming emotional times that can effect us. Emotions are heightened dramatically during such times and worries and fears can make the epiphanies turn into breakdowns when we aren't ready to accept the unimaginable knowledge we have within ourselves.
A good network of unjudgemental people that can support you through these wonderful experiences is vital. An open mind is much more then the term that gets used frequently by closed minds!
Open minds aren't worried, but many try to get through to the public, but are not sure how to. Many others keep it to themselves, since we all need to find our own way anyway.
Open minds can see the hidden meanings in everything from music, movies, other entertainment, logos, banners, other everyday items/slogans, etc... (hidden meanings are everywhere!)

This is why I think you are gullible.

Huh???
I found my own path. After finding what I needed on my own, I can see truths everywhere, including places I never believed in.
And you think I'm guillable, lol. I see 2 sides to everytrhing, I just tend to debate for the side that needs more help. Maybe that's the misperception, because I debate for the side in need of help, maybe you don't notice that I do see both sides, but don't always have to point both sides out.

Except mine apparently.

I didn't realize I judged you or your beliefs, if you feel I did, I apologize. I got nothing but Love and respect for everyone, which includes you.
But as for the 2 sides I see in everything, well I still see the side that needs physical evidence too. I know that without logic, too much creativity would likely bring us close to insanity! But without the creativity too much logic can become numbing too.
But if I knew your beliefs, I'd be able to see both sides of them, but if they are new to me, it could take me a little time to figure out both sides .

An open mind is one willing to consider what it finds or is offerred. Such consideration can result in acceptance or rejection, or somewhere in between.

'Willing to consider?' 'Acceptance or rejection?'
Somewhere inbetween sounds good, balance is essential .
But you don't have to accept or reject anything to understand both sides of the extremes, because understanding both sides doesn't need to bring judgement or blame. Somewhere inbetween both extremes is always my most comfortable zones, but I'm still comfortable trying to understand extremes without judgement. Understanding something doesn't mean you have to agree with it, and I understand many things that I don't agree with since I don't agree with anything that judges, puts conditions on love, or disrespects others.

Blind acceptance is not having an open mind any more than out of hand rejection.

Blind acceptance, lol.
If you only knew the things I know.
I wish you luck on your journey, and I'll say it took me 34 years to open my mind, so you'll be happy to know: 'Its never too late.'

When I was closed minded, I did have tunnel vision, I needed physical evidence, I was against what I considered blind faith as well as blind pride, I judged things too often, I filled myself with needless worries that were beyond my control, etc... but I still had respect for others, even when I found their beliefs unbelievable.
After opening my mind, everything is obvious for me, but everything is still hard to explain, lol.

I'm glad you found some one you like.

Like?
I love everyone.
But I do like to find unjudgemental people that are not afraid speak openly of the things that aren't fully understood. Unfortunetly not enough people like to speak freely unless they are secure enough with themselves that they can handle the doubts of the blind without judgement, and without worry.

 

[swarm]

once again my friend, its the nature of a person who is willing to apply themselves that they are the one who do the picking up ...

We are not currently friends.

You have put nothing on the table.

Try again.

 

[swarm]

An open mind involves a physical change to the way one thinks.

If you aren't already open minded, sure.

For many they need to rise from a crash ...

Perhaps, but there are those who have found the middle way.

Open minds aren't ...

you seem to be wrapping at lot of other stuff into the term.

And you think I'm guillable, lol. I see 2 sides to everytrhing,

Then you should have no trouble understanding why I find you gullible.

But if I knew your beliefs...

Just ask.

'Willing to consider?'

Yep, willing to consider.

'Acceptance or rejection?'
Somewhere inbetween sounds good, balance is essential .

Balance for its own sake is a path into error. What is presented can be right or wrong or some where in between.

bring judgement or blame.

Discerning what is, from what is not, from what is uncertain is not a matter of passing some judgment or assign blame. I think you past is coloring your thoughts on this.

Blind acceptance, lol.
If you only knew the things I know.

You might be surprised the things I know.

I wish you luck on your journey, and I'll say it took me 34 years to open my mind, so you'll be happy to know: 'Its never too late.'

Young pup.

When I was closed minded

Stop thinking every one is you.